Princess's and Prince's of the Fancy....

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

WOAH!

Let me clear something up here!
First off my sister is wrong about the palpating thing! My 4-H leader has palpated before but she's not good at it! She palpated after Minnie ate, NOT ME!

Most of the fluid that came out was just pee. It wasn't from her uterus. It smelt like pee, and looked like pee.

It was just pee.

There is no pus/blood around her genitals. She's eating minimal pellets, but lots of grass, hay, and drinking water.

We do have the emergency vet on call. When I spoke with the DR. on Saturday night, she told me everything my leader told me when she got here. The vets would of just done the same thing. We are going to go and get penicillin.

An exam will not cost $40. I spoke with the vet, she said it will be $68 for an emergency check-up w/o appointment. But yes, we do have money for a vet!!! My sister was wrong! We have about $800...

 

[BSAR]

We have $800 in the bank though!!
And Emi our 4h leader is getting better at palpating!!

 

[Elf Mommy]

I'm going to move this thread to the infirmary. I hope Minnie is doing all right!

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

bunnybunbunb wrote:

Have you had her palpated by someone who can actually tell if there are more babies left?Both my leader and I palpated her. I palpated her today, i didn't feel anything. Two babies for an English Lop is very unlikely,There were actually three not impossible but unlikely. If she has more in her and the fact it has been two days I woud expect infection to have been set in a long time ago. Antibiotics won't save her if it has. We are going to go get Penicillin today

Have someone palpate her and if there is anything take her to the vet, anything over30 hours and I would worry because of the trouble.Alreadypalpated. I felt nothingbut squishyness. Regular feel of an abdominal area.If Minnie dies because you would nottake her to the vet on your consioucious may it rest. OUR LEADER SAID WE HAD TO CALL HER FIRST BEFORE TAKING MINNIE TO THE VET. Our leader is EXTREMELY knowledegable, she knows what she's doing. She has lots more experience than most here do.This is not the first time you two have been told to take a rabbit to the vet and you ignored the people. Excuse me? What other times would those have been? We're listening to our leader and you guys. I would rather listen to what my leader says, because she knows what she's doing and how to save does without taking them to the ER. Why have an emergency vet on call when there has already been two emergencies(two stuck kits)and you ignored them? Why have one on call? I meant I have her dang phone number, jeez. I did NOT ignore the vets....I Spoke with two different Drs. The first one said to pull the baby out; the second one said to pull the baby out. Guess what? I listened to the vets. They know what they're doing; ya'll on here saying "Don't pull out the baby!"
Poor Minnie:cry2

My answers are in bold!!!!

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

Alright we are getting ready to leave to go to a feed store and get penicillin. We have to ride our bikes there because our mom wouldn't take us.

But we are getting it nontheless. It's not far either, maybe like 5 miles away. We should be back in about an hour!

Emily

 

[BSAR]

Okay so I have a question about penicillin.

Where/how do we give it to them?

How much?
how often?

And it can be for like pigs, horses and all sorts of farm animals right?

Me and my sister are going to give Minnie her Vit c for today and then ride our bike to the feed bin, couple miles away, and get penicillin. Since our mom won't take us. We made sure it was open and they had it so we will be back in a couple hours with it. please respond to my questions above!!

 

[bunnybunbunb]

Sounds m to like your 4-h leader is not as knowledgable in rabbits as many of us here but you think as you wish.

How much does she weigh? I give 1/10th a cc/mil per roughly 5lbs. I do not know the dose a vet would give however a breeder friend of mine said that was proper does for a rabbit 4-6 lbs, roughly.

Give it in his back leg muscle in the muscle where the back leg curves around, I can not remember the name of it for my life. Make sure the needle is not to big or to small, I forget the gauge I use. I have tried a few diffrent sizes and I find the smaller shorter needles bend to easy and the bigger ones are scarey :nerves1I hate needles.

 

[NorthernAutumn]

I have read this whole thread, and am going to point something out here:

-You have had a sick rabbit since Friday. She has not received proper medical attention for 4 days!


- Neither of you sound confident in your rabbit's treatment. Since you are not willing to take advice from the experienced breeders here, and we all think your 4H leader's advice is poor...

.... call up your vet, and get their advice.

Make an examination appointment.
Or don't bother at all, if you honestly can't.
She will die, or live.
Those are the options: death or life. She might get through this on her own, she might not.

Minnie has a better chance at life if you see a vet.


PIPP gave you the instructions for penicillin on post 92 of this thread.
Go read them.

Here is the drug calculator:
http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/rx/drugcalc.html


Go back, and read this whole thread again, slowly. There is a lot of good information here. We cannot tell you any more than this.

READ: pg. 4. Look at what all the mods, Flashy, and Trailsend wrote to you. This is excellent advice.


Good Luck, Minnie.

 

[pamnock]

I've had a number of cases of dystocia over the years I've been breeding. The most important point is to get the doe to the vet within 24 hours of the onset of labor if you suspect that she has retained a kit. An oxy/calcium injection can be given that works with the doe's own hormones. Once this window of time has passed, artificial hormones are of little help and a c-section may be required. Waiting costs $$$$ and risks the loss of the doe.

A kit partially sticking out can be gently pulled out working along with the doe's contractions. A large amount of thin bloody fluid gushing out is normal, and not a cause for alarm unless the doe is heavily bleeding. Breech births are normal for rabbits and are not the cause of difficult births.

It's of major important for breeders to learn to palpate so they can check does for stuck kits after kindling.

A vet should instruct you on properly giving injections. Penn Gis fatal if accidentally injected into the blood stream. There is a chance of hitting a major leg vein, when injecting into the leg. Penn G is of little help if the doe is retaining remnants of kits. There may not always be signs of infection. I had a doe that had retained a kit for 10 days and the kit had begun to putrefy. The doe had no discharge and was eating well and acting fine. The vet had to do a c-section to remove the kit or we would have lost her once the infection got worse.

Nutri Cal is a great product to have on hand for does having difficulty birthing and have become weak/shaky and need glucose and electrolytes.



Pam

 

[DeniseJP]

Any updates?

Denise

 

[BSAR]

We just got back from getting the Penicillin.

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

bunnybunbunb wrote:

Sounds m to like your 4-h leader is not as knowledgable in rabbits as many of us here but you think as you wish. She is veryy very knowledgeable. Do you still think we're in that other group as last year? no. We're in an all rabbit group now.

How much does she weigh? I give 1/10th a cc/mil per roughly 5lbs. I do not know the dose a vet would give however a breeder friend of mine said that was proper does for a rabbit 4-6 lbs, roughly. I'd say she weighs about 8 or so pounds. The Penicillin we got is in 100 ml. So how much ml? The syringe we got goes to 12 ml.

Give it in his back leg muscle in the muscle where the back leg curves around, I can not remember the name of it for my life. Make sure the needle is not to big or to small, I forget the gauge I use. I have tried a few diffrent sizes and I find the smaller shorter needles bend to easy and the bigger ones are scarey :nerves1I hate needles.I'm not sure if the needle is to short or not? It's about an inch. The container of the needle says 18 X 1A. What does that mean?

Answers in bold.

 

[Pipp]

Ack!! Do NOT give the penicillin into the muscle!

Actually, I'd rather you just get a vet to do it. You don't even know that penicillin is what she needs.

I've NEVER given penicillin anywhere but as a subcutaneous shot under the skin at the nape of the neck. You make a 'tent' and slip the needle through the skin and keep it away from the flesh.

As Pam said, hitting a blood vessel can mean instant death. You don't fool around with this stuff!!

I'm honestly sorry it was even mentioned!


sas :nerves1

 

[BSAR]

Pipp wrote:

Don't use the same needle or syringe twice, put the penicillin back in the fridge ASAP (and don't ever expose it to sunlight or much heat), hold the needle filled with penicillin in your hand for a few minutes to warm it up so it's more comfortable for the bunny, and don't use alcohol swabs or anything to clean it, they're not necessary and may do more harm than good.

Just wondering as why we can't use the same needle twice? The lady at the feed store only gave us one. So it looks like we will have to go back and get some more then.

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

NorthernAutumn wrote:

I have read this whole thread, and am going to point something out here:

-You have had a sick rabbit since Friday. She has not received proper medical attention for 4 days!


- Neither of you sound confident in your rabbit's treatment. Since you are not willing to take advice from the experienced breeders here, and we all think your 4H leader's advice is poor... Ok uhm how is her advice poor? She knows what she's doing.

.... call up your vet, and get their advice. I've said this already and I'll say it again. The vets said the same thing as my 4-H leader told me when she got here. I already got the vet's advice.

Make an examination appointment.
Or don't bother at all, if you honestly can't.
She will die, or live.
Those are the options: death or life. She might get through this on her own, she might not.

Minnie has a better chance at life if you see a vet.


PIPP gave you the instructions for penicillin on post 92 of this thread.
Go read them. Yah and if you'd been paying attention, you would of found that we went and got penicillin

Here is the drug calculator:
http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/rx/drugcalc.html


Go back, and read this whole thread again, slowly. There is a lot of good information here. We cannot tell you any more than this.

READ: pg. 4. Look at what all the mods, Flashy, and Trailsend wrote to you. This is excellent advice. Already did. It's not like we're not reading it. Sheesh.


Good Luck, Minnie.

Answers in bold once again.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

BSAR wrote:

Bo B Bunny wrote:

BSAR wrote:

My 4h leader is a good person to turn to. She has experienced this before and she knows what to do so that you don't have to go to the vet.

Wasn't she the one that told you it was ok to breed that older doe?

No she was not. Please dont bring that into this.

If she was involved with that - it's going to be important to note.

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

Pipp wrote:

Ack!! Do NOT give the penicillin into the muscle!

Actually, I'd rather you just get a vet to do it. You don't even know that penicillin is what she needs.

I've NEVER given penicillin anywhere but as a subcutaneous shot under the skin at the nape of the neck. You make a 'tent' and slip the needle through the skin and keep it away from the flesh.

As Pam said, hitting a blood vessel can mean instant death. You don't fool around with this stuff!!

I'm honestly sorry it was even mentioned!


sas :nerves1

Okay, see this is why I'd rather just stick to my leaders' advice.

First penicillin is ok to give, now it's not. I haven't given her any and now I guess I wont. At least I have it on hand in case it's needed though.

Emily

 

[BSAR]

Bo B Bunny wrote:

BSAR wrote:

Bo B Bunny wrote:

BSAR wrote:

My 4h leader is a good person to turn to. She has experienced this before and she knows what to do so that you don't have to go to the vet.

Wasn't she the one that told you it was ok to breed that older doe?

No she was not. Please dont bring that into this.

If she was involved with that - it's going to be important to note.

And I said she wasn't. So..... besides that has NOTHING to do with this.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

BSAR wrote:

Bo B Bunny wrote:

BSAR wrote:

Bo B Bunny wrote:

BSAR wrote:

My 4h leader is a good person to turn to. She has experienced this before and she knows what to do so that you don't have to go to the vet.

Wasn't she the one that told you it was ok to breed that older doe?

No she was not. Please dont bring that into this.

If she was involved with that - it's going to be important to note.

And I said she wasn't. So..... besides that has NOTHING to do with this.

Don't cop an attitude with me. I remember that the 4H leader WAS involved with that somehow. NO ONE likes this situation and believes the doe needs to go to the vet. It's gotten several people upset at how this was handled.

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

pamnock wrote:

I've had a number of cases of dystocia over the years I've been breeding. The most important point is to get the doe to the vet within 24 hours of the onset of labor if you suspect that she has retained a kit. An oxy/calcium injection can be given that works with the doe's own hormones. Once this window of time has passed, artificial hormones are of little help and a c-section may be required. Waiting costs $$$$ and risks the loss of the doe.

A kit partially sticking out can be gently pulled out working along with the doe's contractions. A large amount of thin bloody fluid gushing out is normal, and not a cause for alarm unless the doe is heavily bleeding. Breech births are normal for rabbits and are not the cause of difficult births.

It's of major important for breeders to learn to palpate so they can check does for stuck kits after kindling.

A vet should instruct you on properly giving injections. Penn Gis fatal if accidentally injected into the blood stream. There is a chance of hitting a major leg vein, when injecting into the leg. Penn G is of little help if the doe is retaining remnants of kits. There may not always be signs of infection. I had a doe that had retained a kit for 10 days and the kit had begun to putrefy. The doe had no discharge and was eating well and acting fine. The vet had to do a c-section to remove the kit or we would have lost her once the infection got worse.

Nutri Cal is a great product to have on hand for does having difficulty birthing and have become weak/shaky and need glucose and electrolytes.



Pam

There isn't a retained kit though.

The bottle of Penn we have says "Penn G potassium and procaine hydrochloride react to form penicillin G procaine" So is it Penn G or Penn P? Or???

Emily