Rory in stasis? RESOLVED

[SnowyShiloh]

Rory seems to be the same as he was a week ago. He didn't finish all his pellets today, is hardly drinking and didn't finish all his salad last night. He has lost 2 ounces weight I have been giving his meds though and syringing him water, Pedialyte and pineapple juice. He is pooping and peeing.

Last night I forgot to lock his cage door, and we woke up to a Rory in our bedroom this morning! At least he got a lot of exercise last night!

I'm reluctant to take him to the vet at this point because he gets so stressed out there and I don't know what really they can do for him. The vet would probably want to give him more metoclopramide, which is a gut stimulant, but so many people on this forum are opposed to it.

 

[Maureen Las]

I tried to find the thread on Rory before the sub q fluid thread and I'm not sure where it is..

I cannot remember how this started.
I agree that this is odd...unless he ingested carpet fibers and you are dealing with a lump in his gut that needs to soften and pass slowly; but if he had material in his gut it would have shown up on x-ray.

if a vet suspected a fiber blockage he wouldn't give a motility drug to pass it.
I am wondering if this current problem is secondary to another problem that hasn't been found yet( although I am really not basing that comment on anything substanial.)

I know that something is not right because we know our rabbits habits and if he is "off" you are taking note.

 

[tonyshuman]

Previously, when gut issues are chronic but show up intermittently, ie they have problems for a week or two then it goes away then it comes back, Pamnock has suggested internal parasites. These parasites have life cycles of growth, active infection, then they go quiet again while eggs mature and hatch, and then the cycle starts over again. Could it be an intestinal parasite? Has he had a fecal float recently? Also, has he been outside or perhaps eaten something that wasn't washed recently?

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Angieluv, this is the original thread. I started another thread when he got his bubbles from the sub q fluids, but went back to posting in this thread once the bubbles went away. I honestly don't know if they did any tests on his poop when he was at the vet. I do know he didn't have an x-ray done though. The vet said his abdomen felt doughy and she suspected he ingested too much fur, so she gave him a shot of metoclopramide to get his guts moving more so the hair would come out. I know this treatment is frowned upon by people on this forum and I was a little worried when I found out that's what he was given. Oh and Rory weighed almost 5 pounds that day at the vet. His normal weight is 4 1/2 pounds! He had half a pound of stuff clogging him. A week later, he was down to his normal weight, but a couple days ago I weighed him and he was 4 pounds, 6 ounces instead of 4 pounds, 8 ounces.

Good news is last night Rory was doing lots and lots of binkies, and he also ate his entire salad AND all his pellets during the night! Perhaps all the binkies made him extra hungry? He's been getting lots of time out of his cage since he started getting sick (I actually feel guilty because he's been hogging Skyler and Phoebe Mae's play time). His abdomen feels nice and soft. I can't help but think he may still be having some problems with fur in his gut, because he's still passing poops stuck together with fur. Last night when I picked him up to give him his medicine and fluids, he had a doot on his butt and when I pulled it off with a tissue, I could see that it was stuck to one still inside of him. He's also still shedding and I see him washing himself a lot.

Oh also, Rory hasn't been outside since last September (too cold) and I always wash veggies before giving them to him. Skyler and Phoebe Mae have eaten the same things Rory has had and they aren't sick. All the veggies he's been fed have come from the grocery store, not dandelion leaves or veggies from someone's backyard garden. Also, Rory has never been sick the whole time I've had him, which is a year and a half. Not even after he did things like eat half a bag of corn tortillas, leaves of a poisonous plant or chocolate (he's good at getting into things he shouldn't- don't worry, we're extra super careful now). He's a healthy boy!

 

[tonyshuman]

Ok, just wanted to make sure. It doesn't seem like there could be a source of parasites getting in, if he hasn't been outside or had any unwashed veggies. I know sometimes other people feed our bunnies things w/o washing, so I wanted to check. Grocery store veggies should also be better.

He probably still is passing fur from shedding, which is making him have issues. I would think that the vet would only give motility drugs if an obstruction could be felt, and doughy sounds like not obstructed to me. Maybe he's just having a terrible shed? I used to feed Tony fresh papaya during his sheds--not sure it did much, but a big ole papaya lasts a long time and he LOVED it. I actually taught him the "Tony, come!" trick with papaya, which is the only trick he does. I'm not sure it would do anything, since the jury's still out on bromelain/papaya enzymes, but maybe he needs it....

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Claire, Rory's been getting pieces of fresh pineapple every day plus 1 or 2 mL of fresh pineapple juice, per Angieluv's advice. He's also getting papaya tablets every day. Maybe I should buy a papaya just to see what Rory thinks of it.

For some reason, I hate papaya- I try it every opportunity to see if I now like it, but I think it tastes terrible. Like rotting fruit. Every time. Even when it's in a fruit salad or something and I don't know it's there, I always think there's something wrong with it until I realize it has papaya. On the other hand, I love pineapple, so I'm more than willing to help Rory and Skyler eat the pineapple when I buy it

 

[Maureen Las]

SnowyShiloh wrote:

Claire, Rory's been getting pieces of fresh pineapple every day plus 1 or 2 mL of fresh pineapple juice, per Angieluv's advice. He's also getting papaya tablets every day. Maybe I should buy a papaya just to see what Rory thinks of it.

For some reason, I hate papaya- I try it every opportunity to see if I now like it, but I think it tastes terrible. Like rotting fruit. Every time. Even when it's in a fruit salad or something and I don't know it's there, I always think there's something wrong with it until I realize it has papaya. On the other hand, I love pineapple, so I'm more than willing to help Rory and Skyler eat the pineapple when I buy it

LOL I hate papaya also ..makes me sick although I've tried to eat it with an open mind.
I am surprised that the vet did not take an abdominal x-ray. Even here they will do that first. It shows gas pockets distention and blockages if there is any. I had one bun that was not pooping normally (this winter) soI did all the pedialyte, pineapple juice, papya tablets thing for a few days but he still didn't seem normal to me. I took him to the vet and he took an x-ray and said "Well he's not in stasis: whatever you're doing it's working" and I said "But he;s not pooping????" and then the vet showed me the poop on the x-ray that was moving down through the intestines and he said "they are moving down ; You can see it ; he'll be pooping soon"... and I took him home (really pist that I spent the money for the visit for nothing ) and Joey started pooping that night.

If and when you take Rory back to the vet I would ask him to do an abdominal x-ray.
if he wants to do motility drugs I will say that I have allowed them in cases when stasis was the problem and I either had tried my own treatment for a lenghty time or I couldn't handle a wild bun (Gabriel)

A vet should never give a motility drug until he has x-rayed the rabbit; if it was an obstruction it would cause contraction and can cause organ rupture.

Anyway it does sound like he was better yesterday..........

I doubt if Rory has a parasite or the symptoms would have shown up sooner. I have had rabbits that I adopted that had parasites but they had 'other lives unknown to me" before they came to the shelter.

keep us up-dated

 

[tonyshuman]

Maybe you guys are allergic to papaya? Sometimes food allergy shows up just as really disliking something rather than the rash, etc.

I didn't know about the pineapple. I thought you had stopped giving him that. That should do well for him. Papaya may be easier to prepare and cheaper though (they can eat the skin--all you have to do is cut and remove seeds).

A gut x-ray may be the best option at this point, so that the vet can see what's goin on in there. :shrug

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Last night I had the worst dream! I dreamed I took Rory out into the yard to play, and let him off his leash since the yard is fenced in. I was following behind him to make sure he didn't find any gaps in the fence and was keeping an eye out for predators. Suddenly, a cat jumped into the yard and ran up to Rory. It didn't seem aggressive and was kind of playing with him, it was cute. But then 3 more cats jumped in the yard and tried to attack Rory! I could only move very slowly and couldn't get to Rory to help him. Then the slowness wore off and in just a couple seconds I had crushed all the cats' skulls with the corner of a big heavy metal box I was carrying. Rory was okay but all the kitties were dead. Very disturbing

 

[SnowyShiloh]

What happened to Elf has me worried. She died so quickly. Rory is still not himself. I was excited because yesterday I saw him drinking water on his own, he's been eating all his veggies (and faster than normal), he's been pooping more and he was a binkying fool last night. I was thinking he was getting better. I've seen him eating more hay too. In spite of this, he still isn't eating anywhere near as much hay as normal.

This morning at 6 am I felt his tummy and it felt full and a little firm. It was too early to call the vet, so I decided to go to sleep. Now his belly feels pretty normal? I don't know if I was imagining it early this morning or what.

Also, I noticed yesterday that in spite of him acting healthy, he pooped on the second floor of his cage more than once throughout the day. He hasn't done that since before he really got sick a couple weeks ago so I thought it was weird. I think it's a sign of him not feeling awesome.

Rory's still getting his daily salads and pineapple and being brushed a lot.

He is STILL shedding like crazy. It's like he can't get better until he stops shedding enough fur to knit 30 other bunnies. Rory and I both dislike brushing. Rory puts on his patented Sad Bunny face and I get covered in hair and sneeze like crazy. Poor baby.

Do you think I should make an appointment for him to have an x-ray anyway? If his belly felt weird still, I was definitely going to do it.

 

[Elf Mommy]

I think you should take him in. I took Elf in as soon as she started acting differently and my instincts were right on. I only wish she had acted differently sooner. She didn't give me any clues that something was wrong until her last day.

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Minda, I just got off the phone with the vet. I took Rory in as soon as I felt something was wrong with him 3 weeks ago. I noticed something "off" with him (that he was pooping outside the litter box) several days before any other signs or symptoms and was on high alert for him to have gut problems. I started giving him pineapple, salads and lots of brushing before he even showed symptoms of stasis but it obviously didn't work and had him on Benebac and Simethicone the day before we went to the vet.

At the vet 3 weeks ago they gave him a gut motility drug (not recommended in his case) and subcutaneous fluids (which caused a skin infection). Took him back the next day because of the skin infection. I hadn't taken him back all this time because I didn't see what they could do for him, other than stress him out, since he has been eating, pooping, peeing, playing and getting fluids this whole time. I'm just telling you all this so you don't think I'm a neglectful bunny mom.

In any case, I just got off the phone with the vet and of course the earliest they can see him is Tuesday, and it will have to be a drop off (where I drop him off in the morning and he stays all day, stressed out in the travel cage, until the vet can examine him- and I won't be there with him). I hate leaving him like that because he hates it and he gets scared, which can't be good for his gut!

The receptionist said we could bring him in today or tomorrow if we want the "bad" vet to look at him, but she has never diagnosed ANYTHING correctly in any of my bunnies. She did take an x-ray of Tallulah the day that she died and the x-ray seemed to go fine, but still. An x-ray is what I'm wanting Rory to have when he goes to the vet. Do you think I should let the "bad" vet do the x-ray today or tomorrow, or wait until Tuesday for the good vet to do it?

 

[Elf Mommy]

I think you're doing everything you can, and you're a good bunny mom so you should trust your instincts. If your heart tells you to wait for the good vet, then that sounds like a good plan. I don't know enough about the medical side to give advice, though, so I'm sure one of the infirmary mods can be more definite. I just know that when we're close to them, our hearts just seem to know. Rory will be in my prayers!

 

[Maureen Las]

Well I'm still shaken up about Elf too so I don't know if I can help.

rory sounds lie he has something going on but it doesn't seem worse than it has been ..right?

I agree that if Rory is still not behaving normally that a vet visit is in order.< however unless he seems like his tummy is hard and/or their really is a significant change I would wait until tues. rather than to waste time and money tomorrow with a worthless vet


Another option would be if you requested that the bad vet only do the x-ray and then turns the case over to the good vet on Mon.
If you have to remain with the bad vet then it's not worth the time; if the bad vet did an x-ray could she even interpret it ???

I think the idea of dropping the rabbit off and leaving him is really awful ; makes me think less of the clinic for doing that to you and the bun.

You will know what to do tomorrow based on his condition?the other option is going to new vet altogether

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Angieluv, Fairbanks is a small town and this is the only good bunny clinic in town. The surrounding towns are even smaller than Fairbanks, closest town bigger than Fairbanks is 6-7 hours away. I was daydreaming about us moving up to Barrow so Paul could work on computers up there (he did this a couple summers ago and really was raking in the money), but if we were in Barrow and one of the bunnies got sick, we would seriously have to take an airplane to Fairbanks or Anchorage to get vet care.

Normally the vet clinic does appointments, but if we want to wait for an appointment, we'd have to wait until Thursday! Tuesday our vet is in surgery all day, but we could drop him off in the morning and she could take a look at him between surgeries. When we have to do this, I write out a letter to the vet explaining everything that's been happening, and the vet will call me after looking at Rory to tell me what's going on and what she wants to do. It's more organized than it sounds, but it always means the poor bunny is there for hours and he hates it Good thing at least is that I don't work at all this week so I can swoop over to the vet office as soon as they say he's ready to come home. Bad thing is it's Finals Week so I have tests all week long!

Rory is so cute. I would think he was fine if I didn't know better. I just gave him his pellets 5 minutes ago and he's already flung the bowl from the 3rd level to the 2nd level and then into his litter box on the 1st level. It's a ceramic bowl too, I need something he can't throw!

 

[Maureen Las]

SnowyShiloh wrote:

Angieluv, Fairbanks is a small town and this is the only good bunny clinic in town. The surrounding towns are even smaller than Fairbanks, closest town bigger than Fairbanks is 6-7 hours away. I was daydreaming about us moving up to Barrow so Paul could work on computers up there (he did this a couple summers ago and really was raking in the money), but if we were in Barrow and one of the bunnies got sick, we would seriously have to take an airplane to Fairbanks or Anchorage to get vet care.

Normally the vet clinic does appointments, but if we want to wait for an appointment, we'd have to wait until Thursday! Tuesday our vet is in surgery all day, but we could drop him off in the morning and she could take a look at him between surgeries. When we have to do this, I write out a letter to the vet explaining everything that's been happening, and the vet will call me after looking at Rory to tell me what's going on and what she wants to do. It's more organized than it sounds, but it always means the poor bunny is there for hours and he hates it Good thing at least is that I don't work at all this week so I can swoop over to the vet office as soon as they say he's ready to come home. Bad thing is it's Finals Week so I have tests all week long!

Rory is so cute. I would think he was fine if I didn't know better. I just gave him his pellets 5 minutes ago and he's already flung the bowl from the 3rd level to the 2nd level and then into his litter box on the 1st level. It's a ceramic bowl too, I need something he can't throw!

I wasn't criticizing you Snowy!!!!!!!!!!!!

I forgot that you lived in Alaska!
Although I would giveup an arm and a leg to live there ~seriously!

I'm sure that Rory will be fine until Tues. ; he sound like he's doing better.

 

[edwinf8936]

Just from what I read and my bunnies, I would try gving unsweetend pineapple juice three syringes of 30 mmtwice a day by mouth. My experience is that there is an improvement in three days. If easting stops force parsley in the mouth by pushing the stem end until chewing starts and keep going until it is all ate. Sometimes they will go through an add acting period. But if they are or have been shedding, I do the pineapple juice just in case the gutt is slowing up. Usually I will notice the eating habits have changed, not wanting treats as much etc.

ed

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Angieluv, I didn't think you were criticizing me I was just explaining our sad lack of options up here. I'm glad we even have the vet we do have! Edwin, Rory gets fresh pineapple twice a day and has since he first got sick. Lately I've been just giving him chunks of pineapple instead of syringing him the juice because he's eating the pineapple no prob but hates having things syringed to him. He also gets a big salad of wet greens and other veggies every day.

Also, Rory just had a big long drink out of his water bowl! What a good boy. I heard his tummy making sounds (his tummy has always made sounds when he drinks, I asked the vet and she said it was fine) and sure enough he was drinking.

 

[maherwoman]

Sending moreray: your way...

Also...Give all your sweeties love from me!

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Will do, Rosie! You wouldn't believe how adorable my babies are. Skyler is incapable of doing anything that's not really, really cute. He's on a bit of a diet right now (I've been slowly cutting back his pellets for the past month but he gets a big salad every day) because he's prone to being overweight.

Phoebe Mae is such a sweet girl, she's 9 months old now and hasn't been spayed yet (I have a sort of irrational fear of her dying during surgery, she's getting spayed in June though) but has shown 0 signs of aggression or brattery. She's actually nicer now than she was as a baby! It's funny because we think of her as our sweet little bitty baby but I weighed her last night and she's 4 1/2 pounds- same size as the other two!

And of course Rory's main claim to fame right now is that he's not feeling great. He did tons of binkies last night though and peed and pooped on the floor, which is good because it means he's going! He devoured his whole salad and pineapple too. It's a good thing I love pineapple because the bunnies can't eat all of it before it goes bad. I wonder if I could freeze pineapple?

I just realized it's going to be tough having Rory at the vet on Tuesday because I have a test and a final. I won't be able to answer my cell phone if the vet calls to discuss how she wants to treat him.