Nala and Gaz

[Imbrium]

I am so glad you called the cops, I once did that when someone double parked behind me in town and had actually had the cheek to leave the handbrake off so you could push the car forward and backwards to get out. After I called, I was so scared that the owner of the car was going to get back to the car before the police turned up with the tow truck. He was towed away....I wonder if the 300 or so euros it would have cost him to get it back taught him anything. Jennifer sorry for hijacking in but I sooooo am with you on this.

Hah! My kind of vengeance . I'm all for delivering some "instant karma" through legitimate, legal channels. The golden rule of life is "Don't be an *sshole to someone who hasn't provoked you." That made me think of a quote Jay loves from the satanic bible, lol - "Ask someone politely to move out of your way... and if they don't, destroy them."

That's pretty close to the approach I use in life... but a more accurate summary is that the way I deal with people I have no particular affinity for is through ***-for-tat game theory (aka "equivalent retaliation"). Basically, I let other people decide how they want me to treat them - approach me in a civil fashion, you'll get civility. Be generous, you'll get generosity back. Be an *sshole, you'll rue the day. Funny thing is, I operated based on ***-for-tat game theory long before I ever knew it was a real thing .

The keys to ***-for-tat game theory are that successful implementation requires you to never hold (or at least never express) a grudge and also, that it's only applicable when there will be multiple rounds (or in RL application, multiple encounters with the other person). Not expressing grudges is extremely tough until you've embraced the larger concept... then it seems ridiculously easy. It's that key that makes it possible to TRAIN people to do as you would want them to do.

Basically, when exercised properly, ***-for-tat game theory *forces* your opponent to either make you happy or suffer consequences - the only choices they have are win/win or lose/lose; whatever they pick for you, they also pick for themselves and vice versa. If someone is an *** to you, then be an *** back... but if the next time you encounter them, they're polite and civil, then YOU have to be polite and civil, showing no sign of any grudge over the previous encounter.

The toughest part - even moreso than not holding grudges - is breaking the downward spiral that can happen when your opponent repeatedly opts for a negative approach (therefore generating a negative approach from you). The ONLY way to derail that issue is through generosity, referred to as "*** for two tats" - if you feel like things are starting to downward spiral, then you have to break pattern and reward them as though they behaved well even though they were being *ssholes. It can feel self-defeating in the moment to treat someone nicely who's being rude to you, but in the big scheme of things you come out ahead for it because the unexpected positive response throws them off their game and often provokes a positive response from them.

I find it interesting that anyone who's been in a successful long-term relationship knows that the "*** for two tats" is vital to working out domestic disputes... yet it seems like it doesn't occur to most people to do the same thing with strangers even though it's just as successful (albeit often for different reasons). I guess that's because it's natural to *want* to offer that extra generosity (and, in general, the forgiveness necessary for ***-for-tat game theory) to someone you love - in personal relationships, that want doesn't have to be driven by the ulterior motive of wanting to "win" in the big scheme of things the way it does with someone you have no emotional attachment to.

Anyway, with ***-for-tat game theory, most people eventually realize that it's in their own best interests to use a positive approach and will do so for their own benefit even if they don't *really* want to be nice to you .

[WTF? Weird-*** profanity filter! I can say "***", "******" and "hole" and the filter doesn't care... but suddenly I combine "***" with "hole" and I get *******'d?]

 

[JBun]

You need to have your own lecture series - 'Common sense approaches to dealing with people who tick you off' by Jennifer I totally agree, doesn't do you any good to go off on a CS rep when you are trying to get their help, though sometimes you do have to be tactfully insistent about your point. And I like your '*** for two tats'. It can sometimes reset things when they are trending downwards with someone. It's a bit like the idea of 'killing someone with kindness'. It so throws them off that they sometimes don't even know how to react.

 

[Chrisdoc]

I agree with Jenny, you´d be great at these feel good lectures and your advice is spot on. I laughed about the *** and the hole. We spell it different, for us it´s arsehole so that may get you round it lol. I must use the *** for two tats more and that´s only on family members onder:

 

[Imbrium]

What can I say, mind games are fun! As impatient as I can be, I'm willing to hold out for the satisfaction of a "check-mate" on someone that pisses me off rather than reflexively retaliating and making the situation worse for everyone.

Another fun one is "giving someone enough rope to hang themselves." I love it when someone's pissing me off in front of other people and I maintain a polite, rational composure while they run around ranting their ***** off about me to everyone, oblivious to the fact that they're making themselves look really bad while I'm simultaneously coming off as the good one for keeping my mouth shut and not being a damn drama queen.

Trying to slander someone almost always backfires and going around (very loudly) trying to counteract the slander by making counter-accusations does as well. The best thing to do is keep your mouth shut for the most part, only offer a defense if someone specifically ASKS you for one (rather than volunteering it) and present your defense rationally *without* portraying the other party as "the bad guy" - in other words, "this is my side" rather than "this is why the other person's side is wrong." What's that saying about when you point a finger at someone, there's three fingers pointing back at you?

The best part is that you don't have to do a damn thing (yay, laziness!), you come out smelling like roses and when all is said and done, your defeated opponent has no one to blame but themselves!

 

[lovelops]

Imbrium

I'm like you when people piss me off I could cuss like a sailor and TOTALLY agree with you. I live on a half acre 15 minutes outside Washington DC but have more rednecks around me then I did in South Carolina (where my family is originally from)
and every freaking holiday it sounds like a Mexican shoot out around here. Tons of fireworks get shot off and my 4 dogs and 2 bunnies at the time get freaked out... So I understand where you are coming from. Too bad there isn't any decent land for rent there you and the gang could go to and get away from those idiots!

Vanessa

 

[PaGal]

Well although I can cuss up a storm when provoked I do not cuss at people. I cuss about people and about situations, mostly to hubby. When dealing with a person that does me wrong to their face I am tactful but in a way that lets them know even if only unconsciously that I am not a push over.

When it comes to an issue with a business I am all tact. Like you I realize customer service personnel are just there to do their job. With them I do not have a problem. I have worked in that past dealing with customers and know what jerks they can be. Although I'm not a big fan of people in general I am nice and polite to everyone unless and until they give me reason not to be.

We also know the idea of giving someone else enough rope to hang themselves as you say. That has come into play a lot in the past several years on a regular basis. Wish we didn't have to deal with any of it but since we can't change the situation we do deal with it in the best way possible. We have dealt with unbelievable slander thrown out about us. We always remained ourselves through it and over time people realized the lies. I now have the experience that I can remain calm and poised no matter how angry or upset I may be.

*** for Tat can come in handy as long as you are not dealing with someone that will choose to do the wrong thing to you even if it means a negative outcome for them.

Thank goodness that although we still have to deal with a few people we would rather not at least now we only have four neighbors. Good neighbors that if an issue arose we could just bring it to their attention and the problem would be resolved. But we also all help each other mout in whichever way we can.

 

[Imbrium]

I keep reflexively "disciplining" this new bunny for overzealous grooming in a very species-inappropriate way. Sometimes he gets so into licking me that he scrapes his teeth on me or even nips me (usually on my neck, which hurts!)... I've never had this problem with a bunny before, but it's really common with sugar gliders - so much so that it's become a reflex for me to make a sharp "tssst!" noise (glider-speak for "knock it the heck off!") when I get a little love bite, because that's how you teach a glider that they're grooming you too roughly and need to be less bitey about it. Oddly enough, it seems to be fairly effective on the bunny - I guess the noise startles him a little .

 

[JBun]

Hey, whatever works! As long as he gets the point and knocks of grooming with those sharp teeth. They don't quite seem to get that we don't have any fur protecting us

 

[Chrisdoc]

Snowy used to do that, he loved digging at my jumper and bit my ****s a few times and that hurts. I used to squeal and that used to put him off. He does sound like a little cutie anyway, seems like he´s settling in well :bunny24

 

[Imbrium]

I can top that - I had Tabby and Lemmy in my bra while I was driving (something I normally wouldn't do because of airbag paranoia, but every once in a while I'll let gliders stay in my shirt if it's a short trip in very light traffic, like late at night)... she woke up right as I got off the highway and *chomped* on my **** to say 'hi, mom'. I yelled something along the lines of "What the f*ck, Tabitha??" followed by some scolding; the yelling woke Lemmy up and he started crabbing his *** off. Sheesh.

*sigh* I miss my little bitey girl... :rainbow:

 

[PaGal]

I have been lucky that none of the buns are biters. I have been nipped a few times but lightly although it still lets you know just how painful a real bite could be.

I do have to watch when I go to clean Thumpers cage. He likes to run up behind me and between my legs as I'm kneeling there cleaning. The other night I was low and if I was a man I would have been singing soprano.

 

[Imbrium]

Eep!!

Gaz bites to be mean sometimes if she's not getting her way... she's gotten a bit bad about it lately >.> At least Norm's bites are just love bites.

Man, I've been putting Norm's pellets in one of those PetSafe cat food/treat balls that I bought for the cats a few months ago... he goes NUTS for that thing - it's his favorite toy by far. I always hear him rolling it around out in the hallway, hehe. Earlier, he nudged it into a tight corner... then managed to pick the whole thing up in his mouth (he grabbed the bit you twist to open it, I assume) and drag it back out into the open - too cute. I ordered some to sell on my website, plus a couple other types of food/treat dispensers by the same brand to try out - they came today, so Nala and Gaz will get a new toy with their nightly pellets .

 

[Imbrium]

So I was a total ***** to someone last night, heh. In my defense, they all kinds of deserved it (and then some!).

Last Saturday, I tried to leave at 9:20 PM to go get some stuff from Home Depot (about 10 mins away and they close at 10 pm)... but I couldn't, 'cause some ****** was illegally double-parked, completely blocking the legitimate parking spot I had my car in. I meeped the horn three times in quick succession, hoping that the offender was nearby and would realize that the horn might be directed at them. Nope.

I waited a few minutes and then attempted to call the phone number for the towing company that's got signs up in our complex (by all the areas where it's illegal to park). The line was picked up by what sounded like a garbled recording of music... WTF?? So I called the non-emergency police line. Spent 5+ minutes talking to dispatch and then camped the car out while waiting for the authorities.

The guy came back before the cops arrived and I asked him why he would park in a way that blocked someone else's car in and he was SUCH AN *** ABOUT IT (even though I was, imo, reasonably tactful - I didn't raise my voice or swear at all, I just asked him point-blank why he would do such a thing)! According to him, it was completely not his fault in any way - he blamed the lack of parking spots and told me to take it up with the office!! I asked why he didn't park illegally in a way that DIDN'T block someone in (which *everyone* does due to the shortage of parking spots) and he blew me off - I guess his lazy *** didn't want to walk further so as not to be a complete jerk to someone else. The ********* copped an attitude like he truly believed there was nothing I could do in that situation other than patiently wait for him to show back up... and it irks me to no end that I didn't get a chance to prove to him just how wrong that assumption was.

Naturally, the tow truck guy that the police referred the issue to called right after the jerk left (too late for me to get to Home Depot, as it was 9:55 or so). Worst part is that I did get his license plate # written down but I didn't think about taking a picture of how he was blocking me in until he was pulling away, so I have no proof to take to the apartment office .

Actually, scratch that, the WORST part is that he got DROPPED OFF at his car by someone else!! Meaning he wasn't even in the complex at all while he was blocking my car in! God, did he deserve to be towed!! What an inconsiderate *******! Oh, and in addition to blaming everyone but himself, he didn't even TRY to apologize to me!!

Unfortunately, he got dropped off as I was carrying a couple 2x4s to the apartment from my car (still in there from the previous HD trip) and was already in his damn Jeep by the time I got back out there - I'd had the foresight to put on my steel toe girly sneakers when I first went inside to fetch the phone. If anyone deserved a swift kick in the shins, it was that *******!

I can understand double-parking in some situations - I've done it myself at this complex. However, my excuse was that I was *actively* unloading the car after grocery shopping. I left the hazard lights on while I was double-parked and was never out of sight of my car for more than 2-3 minutes at a time so that if someone that I was blocking in wanted to leave, I would be right there to offer an apology and get my car out of their way in a timely fashion.

~~~~~

Last night, another person double-parked in a way that blocked my car in. They were only blocking half of the rear end of my car, but they were close enough to it that I couldn't have gotten out of the spot. I didn't even want to go anywhere (saw it while taking the trash out), but THEY didn't know that. I learned my lesson last time about trying to go through legitimate channels leading to an ****** getting away with being rude and inconsiderate. I immediately knew what evil I had in mind this time but went back inside, since I couldn't be sure they wouldn't be right back to their car or something.

Fifteen minutes or so later, I went out to look again and the car was STILL blocking me. I grabbed a pair of needle-nose pliers, glanced around to make sure there were no witnesses, quietly popped the valve stem on their rear passenger's side tire and then went back inside.

If they got back to their car reasonably soon after that, then they'd have heard the air hissing out of the tire (it was quite audible) and all they would have to do is push the valve stem back into place and fill the tire up. If, however, they took their sweet time getting back to the car, they'd show up to find their tire totally flat and would almost certainly assume the worst; meaning they'd go to all the trouble of putting the spare on and taking the regular tire to be repaired/replaced... only to find out that the tire was in perfect condition and only needed to have the valve stem pushed in and air put back in it.

I enjoyed delivering some instant karma! People who don't bother to stop and think (or care) about what negative consequences THEIR behavior might inflict on some random stranger piss me off something fierce. I was raised to be polite and to think about how my actions might affect other people. I would never DREAM of screwing someone over by acting an *** and then copping a "get over it" attitude towards the person I wronged. I HATE having to park on the opposite end of the complex because of how sh*tty the parking situation is here, but if the only alternative is to double-park and potentially screw someone else over, I suck it up and walk home after parking in the boonies.

Slashing a tire (or breaking a car window *glares at apartment 134*) is totally hoodrat - deliberately inflicting property damage makes you as bad as whoever pissed you off (if not worse; god knows $150 for a new car window was a ridiculously unfair punishment for loudly playing the ICP song "Piggie Pie" with the windows down as I drove through the parking lot)... which is why I would NEVER slash someone's tire no matter how badly they pissed me off. I'm above petty vandalism - there are always more artful ways to seek revenge.

"Coring" a tire, however - especially if you don't actually *remove* the valve stem but merely loosen it - is a different story in my book. A specific sum of money has a different value from one person to the next depending on their situation but inconvenience is universal - letting the air out of a tire is much more in line with "an eye for an eye" than damaging/destroying said tire (and whether they stop to appreciate it or not, is actually LESS of a punishment than having their car towed ).

Gotta love Kurt Vonnegut for being the inspiration - it was through one of his novels that I learned about the concept of "coring" tires by pulling out (or in my case, loosening) the valve stems.

 

[JBun]

Jennifer, you're evil :shock: :laugh:

Justifiably of course. Don't mess with this girl

 

[Imbrium]

I can be an excellent ally or a nightmarish enemy... and I let people choose for themselves .

 

[Troller]

Hmm, Ive had plenty of these same scenarios occur to me and my parked spot. Not sure I should cheer you on, I mean you didnt do anything lasting and man have I felt like taking out my vengeance in far harsher ways when its happened to me. As long as you feel better about the whole thing.

 

[Chrisdoc]

Jennifer, you are my hero. I hate it when people double park and block someone and then they just sort of wave for you to wait as they walk back and don´t even apologise. It happens all the time here in town, the Spanish are too lazy to walk anywhere lol.

I remember telling you it happened to me and the guy had left the handbrake on so you could push the car. I called the police and they turned up before he came back and towed the car, was I pleased. But I must look how to do that with the tyres, I would be very tempted to do the same myself.

 

[Imbrium]

^ This is a valve stem (the thing you attach the air nozzle to when putting air in a tire).

To "core" a valve stem, you remove the little screw-on cap if there is one, then use a pair of needle-nose pliers [ideally, a very small pair that's no larger than your hand/easily concealed in a pocket as that's much sneakier than a large pair ] to grab that stick thingy you see inside the valve stem. Pull on it (hard) until air is hissing out of the tire even after you let go of it (you should hear a little pop noise when you actually pull it out of place). Slip the pliers into your pocket and nonchalantly stroll away.

It's as easy as that!

 

[lovelops]

And WHO taught your Lop to have an attitude again????? HUM????




Vanessa

 

[Chrisdoc]

Very interesting, this could come in very handy over here lol