Marlin's teeth - need help!

[undergunfire]

Marlin has been really reserved and skittish towards me for well over a year, so I try not to mess with him too much. Well, my mistake....I should have been messing with him more even though he'd hold the grudge for a long time.

I just noticed Marlin's teeth tonight when he yawned. I burrito'd him in a towel and Ryan shot this picture....


Is it malocclusion? His top left tooth (in the picture) looks like it has broken off a bit on the side. They look like rat teeth .

I will be calling my vet tomorrow to get into see her ASAP, but I want to know a few things from you guys first - like what the treatment and stuff would be (if you guys know what it is)? Usually vets are always wanting to try this and that (like uneeded $100+ xrays) and blah blah blah to get money out of you...so I guess I want to be prepared.



I feel so dumb and terrible - no wonder he hates playing with toys and eats very little hay :cry2.

 

[tonyshuman]

Wow that is pretty gnarly! I would think that they can be trimmed down, but will probably have to be cut pretty short. His teeth almost look like he's not getting the right diet--Muffin had that browness and white stuff on her teeth when I first got her and her previous owners hadn't been feeding her enough. LOL with her belly out to the side in parallel lamb-chop flops with Tony right now you wouldn't be able to tell!

Do you think tooth issues might make him not eat what you're been putting out for him? He does get pellets, right?

TBH it might not just be a simple trim--I can't see the peg teeth (tiny teeth behind the top two teeth), and I worry that it might be a bit swollen around there, indicating infection. I also don't have any idea how the top tooth on the left could have gotten like that. I worry that he's got a calcium problem that's leading to his teeth not being strong enough.

I have a paper about dental disease in rabbits and how it can be related to calcium intake. I'll try to email it to you.

Anyway, he should see a vet soon, and I would like to see some more diagnostics done, like an x-ray and bloodwork (to check calcium/phosphorus). However, it might be simple--maybe his peg teeth are in there, and I just can't see them. He could have gotten a small tooth problem, like a chipped tooth from something hard (cage bars?), and that led to the rest getting out of whack because of how they grind on each other.

 

[undergunfire]

He does have the peg teeth....they are just really tiny.

His diet is half Oxbow BBT and half Oxbow 15/23 (1/4th cup nightly....eats them all)...also unlimited timothy/orchard grass hay, as well as veggies randomly (I try to do it 3-4 times a week or else they get bored with them). He gets treats every now and then (fruit, blueberry/oat biscuits, oats, etc).

I doubt he chipped his tooth on the cage bars because he never bites them, he also never plays with toys (now I know why).

My vet will be called tomorrow right when they open and I will get an appt. in for whenever they can get me in (hopefully Thursday...I'll just take off groom school that day).

I feel like such an idiot that I didn't see this sooner - I feel so terrible .

 

[tonyshuman]

Burn it all, the paper's on my external hard drive. Will get it to you tomorrow.

Here's a pic of Muffin's teeth a few months after we got her and they started rotting because they were so bad due to malnutrition. I'm not saying you don't feed him right, of course, but that maybe his teeth got so bad that he couldn't eat right himself.

Also, the tooth at the top left of the picture has a crooked-looking root, which worries me.

 

[tonyshuman]

Diet sounds good, especially if he eats it all. Don't worry--we all know how bunnies feel about having their teeth looked at. **CHOMP**

 

[undergunfire]

I'm going to do some reading up online....can you point me in the direction of some sites that explain teeth issues in rabbits?

I don't know how long they have been like that and thats what makes me feel so bad . I can always see my other bunnies teeth because I do the "grabby treat!" test and they open up really wide so I can see the front teeth. Marlin, on the other hand, is so reserved.

 

[tonyshuman]

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Dental_diseases/Differential/D_problems.htm

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Dental_diseases/Differential/D_problems1.htm

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Dental_diseases/Stella/Stella.htm

 

[undergunfire]

Thank you, Claire. I only browsed over those links really quick because I need to head to bed (sooo exhausted). Unfortunately, I can't watch the videos because dental work makes me feel really sick. I wonder if the teeth issue is why Marlin's poops tend to be smaller, but yet he still eats everything offered?

 

[undergunfire]

Well...I got sucked into reading up a bit more. And boy am I ever so dumb....

2 different sites have said that a sign of teeth issues is eye discharge - Marlin has had 1 eye (right eye, side of the bad tooth) have watery discharge for a while now, but its not really bad at all...I just figured it looked worse then it was because of his wooly hair.

I just hope my vet is experienced enough for this. I do know she worked with the San Diego House Rabbit society and seemed to know a lot about Benson's eye issues (9 year old blind/deaf foster).

 

[ZavalaBunnies]

They look so brittle, I hope he doesn't have an abscess under those teeth. That's my guess of why they are so weak and also a little crooked. My rabbit louie gets abscesses on her jaw and her bottom teeth get crooked and yellow every time an abscess flairs up and I have to get her a tooth trim.
So I would think cut out the sugars (carrots, apples...)
and try some of these calcium filled veggies
http://www.carrotcafe.com/f/calevel.html
I hope he gets better!!:bunny24

 

[Happi Bun]

They look very widely spaced... Anyone else notice that? Compare Marlin's to the photo Claire posted which is what average bunny teeth look like minus the rotting. There is usually no space at all. It does look like two are starting to go crooked. I'm not sure teeth trimming will be the right course of action because how widely set they are? Of course that's up to you and your vet. They may need to be removed. There are a few bunnies at the rescue that have no front teeth, they do just fine.

Don't be hard on yourself... :hug:
I know you probably feel awful about now, but you're a great bun mom and Marlin is lucky to have you.

 

[jcottonl02]

Yes Erika I noticed that- they are widely spaced at the top too- so I am not sure trimming will do anything to help. This looks like a problem with the root?

Amy- his diet sounds great- I really don't see how you could have caused this, so don't be hard on yourself. Like mentioned before, he could have a calcium deficiency etc. because those teeth look very unhealthy and brittle.

There are quite a few buns here that have no teeth at all(!!), and get on very happily, so if that has to be done, don't freak out or anything (like I would have done before I found out buns are fine without teeth ).

Good luck to you and Marlin! Keep us updated what the vet says.

I would definately ask for an X-ray if the vet doesn't suggest it, particularly because of what you mentioned about the watery eye.

Jen

 

[undergunfire]

My vet opens in an hour, then I will be calling to get us in as soon as she can.

With thinking about it I really don't think trimming will help, either...it might just break them off. They literally are like a rat's teeth....

(baby rat teeth)

Hopefully there is enough credit on my animal credit card for a surgery, xrays, etc. Our other credit cards barely have any space left on them due to needing them for a few emergencies (mostly car), the wedding, and to help us get into a house we were renting last year.


Ugh

 

[jcottonl02]

Oh Amy it's just not fair- I hope you don't have to get a load of expensive stuff done .

I really wonder how his teeth started moving apart like that?

Let us know what the vet said.

Jen

 

[JadeIcing]

Honestly those teeth do not look good at all. The spacing is my biggest concern. You may want to talk to her about removing them all together and see what she thinks. The last thing with his personality you want to do is force him into regular teeth trims.

 

[undergunfire]

Now I'm so scared for him :cry2. How hard is teeth removal surgery on a rabbit?

My vet is kind of pricey, but I really like her. They are the ones that want to spay a rat for $170+, so I am really scared at how much they are going to charge for tooth removal on a rabbit. I have a vet that I use for spay/neuters on rats & rabbits, but I don't know if they know enough about bunnies to remove teeth. I think when I brought Benson in for xrays on his skull (to figure out his eye issue), it was around $100. So, my first visit is going to end up being about $125....then surgery (which he most likely will need).

Argg...so much for Ryan and I thinking we could "slide by" for 2 months while I had to quit my job to go to grooming school. I graduate in the middle of May, so I don't really see myself making too much money until the end of June (I think I'll be lucky to bring home more then $200 a week as a beginner groomer, but I have no idea).

 

[bunnybunbunb]

I highly doubt they need to be removed. I have saw teeth like that be "fixed" after a few trimmings. His top one is chipped but as they grow that will be gone. The vet may want you to do the pressure thing everyday to see if the bottom teeth can be slowly pushed back together.

If it has been going on for a while now they are actually aligned better than Sway's. I clip Sway's teeth every two weeks or so. If not hers get REALLY bad because her bottom teeth are over her top teeth while it should be the opposite. But I see that his are stilled aligned right which is why they are not terribly long. They are still grinding each other down.You really should not worry about all the extra surgery and crap until you talk to the doc. If they said surgery ask about the alteritives. Ask if weekly clipping and pushing of the teeth would be an option before surgery.

Out of the four messed up teeth I have had to deal with two resolved after clipping and pushing while the other two where just to bad and needed constant clipping. Honestly his look fixable from clipping and pushing.

 

[undergunfire]

I really don't think Marlin will put with with regular trimming or pushing of the teeth....that sounds painful to me, anyway .

He's got an appointment on Friday at 9:30am with my vet. I guess the visit fee is really $52, not $25.

 

[bunnybunbunb]

From the picture I then they can. they are still aligned right and that is the main thing the vet should look at.

Think braces, the pushing might be a little sore but you could ask the vet for metacam. Would you rather him have surgery or try and fix them without anything risky? Personally I would rather do all that could be done before looking to surgery.

Sway hates clipping time but she doe snot act like it bothers her, pain wise, and she knows as soon as she gets down there is a nice bowl of food. She chows down. I have had her a year now so she is use to the routine.

 

[jcottonl02]

Yeah, sometimes you have to think about just what would be best for the bun, because even though teeth removal sounds horrific, sometimes with certain bunnies that is much better than the regular stress of being held down and having their teeth clipped and pushed etc.
Some rabbits are so laid back that I am sure that wouldn't be a problem, but some rabbits just wouldn't have it.

I honestly don't know much about teeth removal, but as with anything like that, there can be complications, and I am sure it would be quite uncomfortable for a good few weeks. But of course you would be given lots of painkillers etc. so hopefully it wouldn't be too bad.

Jen