Marlin's teeth - need help!

[jcottonl02]

I might be wrong on this, but my vet doesn't advise clipping teeth at home, due to the nature of clipping- can break the tooth, and damage the 'pulp', I think she said. It was used a lot, but is now considered to be quite a crude way to trim teeth, so now vets file them down, and this prevents any harsh tremors moving down the groove of the teeth and causing stress to the tooth and root etc.. And of course, I don't have a dentist filing drill thing at home lol!

Could be wrong there, though.

Jen

 

[bunnybunbunb]

Filing... hmm. I guess I am old school. I was taught by a very old school breeder. Maybe I should come into 2010! xD I will look into the filing.

 

[jcottonl02]

I could be completely wrong though- or it might just be the way my vets do it.

I have tried to discourage my aunts and uncles from clipping their bun's teeth at home when I heard this, and after my Dad heard this too (he was at the vets with me), he never asked me again 'why can't we just clip the bunnies teeth at home, rather than pay someone £25 to do it?', because it made so much sense what the vet said.

Pipp? Alicia? lol

Jen

 

[bunnybunbunb]

Well, everything that use to be fine is now looked at as not. People taking dogs/cats/rabbits to the vet for nail trims every 6 weeks? I mean... come on! And them Petipaw things that file because clipping nails is now "bad". I think vets and stuff are just spreading stuff to get more money. But what do I know? I believe in aliens and govnerment conspiracy so I may just be a crack-pot. *wink* "If it works, why fix it?"

 

[jcottonl02]

bunnybunbunb wrote:

Well, everything that use to be fine is now looked at as not. People taking dogs/cats/rabbits to the vet for nail trims every 6 weeks? I mean... come on! And them Petipaw things that file because clipping nails is now "bad". I think vets and stuff are just spreading stuff to get more money. But what do I know? I believe in aliens and govnerment conspiracy so I may just be a crack-pot. *wink* "If it works, why fix it?"

OMG yeah that Petipaw thing is just ridiculous- how do you see the quick??!! I can't see they brought that out because 'clipping nails is bad' but the whole Petipaw thing is just to get money lol.

Thing is...vets don't exactly work on commission, and the vets I go to, all are passionate about the animals. They will say to me 'you know...you don't actually need to pay for this blah blah because there is a cheaper, and better alternative,' etc.
My rabbit's teeth don't actually need clipping often, so it's not like she was trying to get me to give the company more money or anything lol.
They used to clip, I believe. I remember taking my hamster to get it's teeth clipped about 8 years ago, and they clipped them. Now, they file, which takes more time, and energy, for the same amount of money as the clipping did.
And to be honest, Benji has had his teeth filed once (I did wonder why they didn't clip them lol, but now I very glad they didn't), and he didn't seem to care at all. No pain, no stress or pressure on the tooth. Just a 10 seconds of gentle filing, and job done

Jen

 

[JadeIcing]

I got Dallas right after his were doneand he was just fine.

With Marlin I think he would be one bun that would not handle regular trims. I also don't think diet will correct this much.

 

[butsy]

until your app. to make sure your bun is eating right, try crushing his pellets and mixing it with water so it will be pasty . the he/she can lick it and actually enjoy it

 

[tonyshuman]

Usually when the front teeth are out of alignment, it's a genetic issue, or caused by one chipping incident that made the rest not wear properly. So, either they can be fixed by a few trimmings and will be normal, or they will have to be removed or clipped often. I too am not a fan of doing tooth clipping at home--the risk of the tooth chipping off and breaking down to or under the gum line is too great. If you can use a rotary tool like a Dremel, that would be a lot better. I wouldn't do it myself but I have a reasonably priced, great vet nearby. If that's not how it is where you are, trimming the incisors yourself may be the best option.

I would actually worry about the calcium: phosphorus ratio being off in his diet, due to the alfalfa pellets (Oxbow 15/23 is alfalfa). That could cause the teeth to form improperly, based on what I've read in that article I will be sending to Amy really soon. I'll also re-read it this afternoon and report important stuff here.

I do think that x-rays will be needed, and it's not going to be cheap especially since you say he has a runny eye. The runny eye might indicate that the top teeth have abscessed roots that are impinging on the drainage of his eye, or putting pressure on the eye socket. Maybe the vet will allow you to defer payment, or pay by grooming for a day? Barter?

 

[ZavalaBunnies]

I really wish you were in California!!! My vet is pretty pricey too (twice as much as yours!!) But Dr. Kanfer is one of the best rabbit vets anywhere and she also specializes on rabbit teeth. Don't worry about the trimmings he'll put up with them

 

[Happi Bun]

I honestly don't see how teeth trimming will help in his case because of how widely set his teeth are starting at the gums. It would be a different story if they were just crooked or long. Teeth trimming wont correct the width between his teeth. I'm not saying tooth trimmings shouldn't be looked into, just that I doubt it will correct the problem in Marlin's case.

 

[undergunfire]

Tiffany....Marlin is eating everything I give him, so a "pellet slurry" isn't something that needs to be done, IMO.

Claire....Could just giving Marlin half alfalfa based & half timothy based pellets really cause his teeth to go this bad?


I do understand this is probably going to be pricey, so hopefully my vet will do payments but from what I remember...they do not.

 

[butsy]

okay haha good luck !!!!

 

[jcottonl02]

undergunfire wrote:

Claire....Could just giving Marlin half alfalfa based & half timothy based pellets really cause his teeth to go this bad?

I think genetics play a part in this, especially with the dwarf breeds, so even a rabbit on the 'perfect' diet, who was predispositioned to this, could have slight maloclussions.

But I do think it's most diet based...calcium deficiency has already been mentioned.

Does he get many treats/fruit etc? I wonder what has made his teeth go brown.

Jen

 

[undergunfire]

Marlin doesn't get many treats at all. I will feed him a dash of oats once every few weeks, sometimes he will get a little peice of fruit flavored cereal when I dish out the rat food (like a flake of SpecialK blueberry).


ETA: I haven't fed Marlin fruit in a long time....a few weeks ago he got a couple small strawberries over the span of a week.

 

[jcottonl02]

Well I am completely beffuddled.....:?

Hopefully the vet will have some definitive answers!!


Jen

 

[undergunfire]

I don't get it either. I think the only thing that would make him gave a perfect diet would be to feed veggies nightly, but then again he starts to get bored with them and they go to waste (yes, I do mix it up)...so I try to keep the veggies random. He needs to eat more hay, but now I see why he doesn't.

 

[tonyshuman]

I really doubt he has a calcium deficiency. It seems he is getting enough from the pellets, if not too much. I have been working some of this stuff out with Amy27, whose bunnies have bladder sludge, and we went through and did some calculations as to the calcium content of veggies and what a bunny needs daily.
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=43493&forum_id=16&page=8

In addition, the calcium : phosphorus ratio should be 1:1 or 2:1. Oxbow 15/23 has this information on calcium and phosphorus:
# Calcium min 0.50%
# Calcium max 1.00%
# Phosphorus min 0.25%
That means it could potentially have a 4:1 ratio of calcium to phosphorus.

BBT has this informtation:
# Calcium min 0.35%
# Calcium max 0.85%
# Phosphorus min 0.25%
so it's a bit less, with the max possible ratio of around 3:1.

I am so PO'd, the paper I've been trying to get to is on my dead computer that got sent back to the manufacturer today. I will try to find it again.

 

[tonyshuman]

One of the papers I've read says that low phosphorus (in relation to calcium) in the diet causes poor mineralization of bones and teeth. This means that they are weaker, and maybe more prone to fracture. I don't doubt that something genetic led to at least some of the issues here, but it is also possible to imagine a situation in which one of the incisors broke off below the gum line and became infected, leading to the strange appearance of the root on the tooth in the top right of Amy's picture. It looks like the root is twisted or out of line, maybe due to an abscessed infection. This could have led to the rest of the problems. I also see strange fractures on the top left tooth that look like the tooth is really weak for some reason.

 

[undergunfire]

Thank you for all of the help, Claire. I got your email, I just need to take some time to read it tonight.

The diet thing is a bit confusing to me, though. I guess I need it really broken down into easy to understand terms, LOL. Like....if the pellets he is on isn't working, then what do I switch him to? Should I be feeding certain veggies every day?

 

[jcottonl02]

I honestly don't know...

I don't get the 'ratio' thing. Ratio isn't amount. Just because the ratio of calcium to phosphorous is a certain number, does mean the amount is the required amount to avoid deficiency? Or is this in the same mass?

I'm not sure veggies would have changed his teeth really....they look so brittle and thin to me that is does seem like a deficiency of some sort, or something that made his teeth wear and become less strong.

I would have thought it had to be related to diet in the way of deficiency, but otherwise I can't see the relation of veggies to brittle and brown teeth?

Jen

ETS- wrote my name twice. From, Jenjen :grumpy