Chase - UPDATED 5/22/10

[tonyshuman]

I'm glad to hear she's being a bouncing happy girl. You are giving her great treatment and lots of love, and she is a lucky girl. I hope she continues to improve.

 

[myheart]

Amy27 wrote:

With all this stuff she has been through and all the meds and fluids she is getting, it makes her sound like a sick bunny but really she is feeling good and loving life, unless it is time to get sub q's. Which she is over in about 1 minute. I am just thankful to have her happy and energetic. If I have to give her the sub q's for the rest of her life which is what the vet thinks I am fine with that. As long as she gets a chance at life that every bunny deserves.

:yeahthat: That is the way that I am feeling with Luna Belle. I think the vet was surprised today when I told him that Luna has actually been doing running binkies. She always makes me think in the back of my mind that there is no way she could be on Death's door if she is racing around and doing binkies. She (her essence)is still there, and that is what counts so much with any decision to toughen up and get used to giving those darn sub-q's.

myheart

 

[Amy27]

Thanks tonyshuman

myheart I hope that because our buns are acting good it means the treatments we are giving them are making them feel good which is a good thing. We are still trying to get use to the sub q's here. I wonder how long it will take for them to not mind getting them. Do they think Luna will always be on sub q's or do they think at some point you can stop giving them to her? Chase will probably have to be on them for the rest of her life and I would just love it if we didn't have to hold her down to get them.

 

[myheart]

I am most certain that Luna will get the sub-q's for the rest of her life. It doesn't make me happy in the least, but as a maintenance program, I best get used to it. The vet said that every-other-day will be fine for now, but if she ever does go into renal failure, the sub-q's will be crucial to her comfort. I also asked the vet about life-span and he said it will be totally on an individual basis. For now he is happy with her blood panel which shows her kidneys are working.

Weshould be thankful for every binky and ray of sunshine they give us because our bunners are that much more special.

myheart

 

[Amy27]

Tonight while giving Chase her fluids she bleed... a lot. I am worried. The vet tech has been holding her and I have been giving her the fluids. The way she has to hold Chase leaves very little room to put the needle in and it is usually in a spot that doesn't have much skin to pull up. Tonight I tried to put the needle in and I couldn't get it to go in. I thought I was being a baby and just not pushing hard enough. I finally said I couldn't get that spot and pulled the needle out. It didn't even feel like it went in. I could still see 3/4 of the needle so I know if it did go in it wasn't far. Anyway I went to try another spot and noticed the vet techs hand was all bloody and it was all over Chase. There was so much blood on her hand we thought she had gotten cut somehow. After cleaning up the blood we noticed it did come from Chase. I feel so bad. I wouldn't poke her after that and we put Chase in her carrier and the vet tech poked her. What did I do that caused her to bleed so much. I thought maybe I hit a vein but the vet tech said that probably wasn't the case. I would like to know what happened so I can avoid it in the future. I hope I didn't cause her to much pain. I am going to watch her to make sure she doesn't start bleeding again is there anything else I should do? Should I put something on it? I feel so awful.

 

[NorthernAutumn]

Hang tight Amy.. I'm sure someone will be along shortly :hug:.
Chase is gonna be OK.

 

[myheart]

Oh my gosh, Amy!!! I am so sorry this happened to you and Chase!!! I always go through the same thing in my head as I try to find a place to put the needle in also. I even expressed my fears and concerns to the vet and techs, but giving sub-q's are old-hat to them and they get it done in a flash. I have been so frustrated at times trying to insert the needle, that I have been very close to just taking Luna in and paying the $33.00 office call to have anyone else do it. The only thing is that I know I can't afford to do that every other day for the rest of Luna's life. So I need get strong for her sake.

Hugs to you and Chase!!! :hug:

myheart

 

[Amy27]

Thanks NorthernAutumn. Chase is running around and seems to be fine. But gosh that was scary.

Thanks myheart, you are so right that they are use to doing this everyday and I don't think they realize how scary it can be.

I can't believe that small of a needle would let that much blood come out so quick. I don't understand how I didn't even notice when I pulled the needle out, neither of us noticed for a few seconds. Chase does move or flinch when we stick her with the needle and I don't know if that did something. Scary, I hope it never happens again.

 

[myheart]

Amy, I was so hoping that some one would have responded to your question so that I may know the answer also. This will be one more thing for me to worry about on sub-q days... :cry2

I am glad Chase doesn't seem to be bothered by the incident. Give her some nose-rubs from me.

myheart

 

[tonyshuman]

Wow I don't know. I don't know much about the vasculature of a rabbit, so I don't know if there are any big vessels there. It's possible that you got a vein, I would think.

 

[krsbunny]

That is going to happen from time to time when you are giving fluids. It scared the heck out of me the first time it happened to me with Murray. These incidents are few and far between and, in my personal experience (has happened with more than one bunny) it bothered me a lot more than it bothered the bunny!

I'll see if I can find a better explanation of what happened...meanwhile relax, it will be OK.

Kathy Smith

 

[Amy27]

I wouldn't worry about it to much myheart. It was way worse for me then it was for Chase. It really didn't seem to bother her at all. One thing the vet tech did was put pressure on it and it stopped very fast. I will try to always keep something beside me now when giving the fluids that I can use to put pressure if it starts to bleed.

It could also have been the way we were giving it to Chase. It was farther down from her neck and there isn't a lot of skin to grab. I also wondered if the Lasix would make the blood thinner and that is why it bleed so much.

Thanks tonyshumn, I think it was a vein also. Looking at the spot now it is pretty far from her neck. Probably about 4 inches. I think it would have to be a vein to bleed that much.

 

[Amy27]

Thanks Kathy. It helps to know that it has happened to other people to. And you are right Chase didn't seem bothered at all. Though she also couldn't move lol. I think one reason it looked like so much blood is because the vet tech put her hand there and then moved her hand a few times before we noticed so when we did notice it was all over Chase and her hand andChase is white so it showed up really well.

I am feeling better about it now. I was worried about it starting to bleed again or it bothering Chase. But so far so good.

Thanks so much for responding Kathy. It really helps me to know that this happens sometimes. I felt so guilty.

 

[krsbunny]

I did some more research since I responded. My When Your Rabbit Needs Special Care coauthor, Lucile Moore, explains in the section on giving fluids that this happens more in cases wherefluids/injections are given on an ongoing basis:"The area [where injections are being given]may vascularize,or develop more tiny blood vessels, making it more difficult for you to give fluids without hitting a capillary. Giving the injections in different spots can help prevent these problems, although they may not entirely prevent their occurrence." A suggestion made elsewhere in the book is to think of the general area you are giving injections as a clock face (OK... age is showing here... my clocks are still not all digital!). Give first injection at 12:00 and move each subsequent one to 1:00, 2:00.... etc. Obviously, the smaller the bunny, the harder this might be to accomplish.

Kathy

 

[Amy27]

Thanks Kathy. That was very helpful. I think it would help me to maybe get some books to read about things like this. Then maybe I would be able to deal with them better and even prevent them from happening. I looked that book up on amazon and it looks like it would have a lot of good information. I am very curious about how sounds and colors could help healing. I am going to order it but wondered if there are any other books you could recommend. It is so cool to have you on this board with all the knowledge you have, I really appreciate all your help and sharing your knowledge.

If you don't mind answering, I am kind of curious about how you became interested in rabbits and also what made you interested in the holistic side. Again don't feel like you have to answer. It just seems there is not a lot out there for rabbits. There is so much more for cats and dogs. I know you have talked about your bunny's being sick and I didn't know if that's whatgot you interested.

Thanks

 

[krsbunny]

Four Paws Five Directions by Cheryl Schwartz gives a good overview of Traditional Chinese Medicine. It is specific to cats and dogs... and I must warn you that it includes diet suggestions for some conditions in dogs that will bother you. But if you can get past that... it really does explain the theory very well ... and it makes sense to me.

I don't mind answering the other questions <gr>. I loved rabbits since I was a little girl. It should have been a "clue" to my folks when, instead of playing with baby dolls, I dressed my stuffed rabbits in doll clothes! We adopted our first rabbit in 1983. I started writing Rabbit Health in 1998 after Smokey lost his battle with cancer.

King Murray's myriad of physical ailments was what mademe start exploring holistic medicine. My husband saw a holistic vet on TV and later when I heard the same name through my local HRS I decided to give it a try. The combination of chiropractic and acupuncture helped Murray handle the "side effects" of traditional medicine better. In addition to helping Murray, I learned so much from just chatting with Dr. Kidd at each session. When I saw the name of the human acupuncturist he recommended in a newspaper article with a Dr. (Jane) Murray ... I knew I'd found a new doctor for myself ... and she is awesome. She put me in touch with my Energy Therapist ... who also has taught me much of what I know. Like Bach Flower Essenses, sound, color, and crystals are all work on the physical body through the energy body. I was always fascinated by physics... I would not be surprised if one day we find more answers to health through physics than through medicine.

Kathy

 

[Amy27]

Thanks Kathy for the suggestion. I also have a cat with a ton of health problems and the vets have really done all they can so it sounds like that book would be good for all my animals. I ordered it. I will have lots of reading to do. I also like that that book talks about accupuntcure which we talked about before and I am really interested in learning more about it.

That is so funny and cute that you use to dressstuffed rabbits up instead of dolls. It seems like you have had a lot of mentors help you learn about this stuff and now you are passing that information on to us. If more people would learn about rabbit care we would be able to provide our animals with better care. It is so hard to trust a vet because there is somuch conflicting information and it is constantly changing. I do think the owner, unfortunatly has to learn a lot of it themselves to try and protect there rabbit.

I have never really learned a lot about physics. But it seems like taking the time to learn it would benefit me, my buns and my cats. This is a side of things I have never considered and now I am all pumped up to learn about it.

Thanks for sharing your story. If you think of any other helpful books let me know. I love to read and find this stuff very interesting and beneficial when a situation arises. If I knew 3 months ago what I know now I think things would be a little different with Chase. I have to try and keep my knowledge ahead of what the vets might suggestso I know a little about it and if she doesn't suggest something I can recommend it.

The vet Chase is currently seeing wrote this book http://www.amazon.com/5-Minute-Veterinary-Consult-Ferret-Ruminant/dp/0781793998/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1235016561&sr=1-4I have thought about getting that one also but is more expensive and I am afraid it will be over my head on the medical treatments they discuss. Have you ever read it? Just curious of what you thought of it?


Sorry about all the questions. I am a very curious person when it comes to new things and love having the option to learn more about them.

Thanks again for sharing your story.

 

[Amy27]

Chase bleed again tonight. The vet tech did the poking tonight. She poked him more in the nech area then I did yesterday. THe needle wasn't in a good position so she pulled it out to try again and the blood comes flowing. I think we have moved spots a lot we use different sides. It is just so weird.

I called the vets office today just to let them know to make sure the meds wouldn't be doing this. But I didn't get to talk to the vet only the vet tech who was no help at all. Tonight I called and left a message wit the receptionist that I wanted the vet to call me. Could there be an underlying cause? Like her blood thinning or her skin thinning? It just doensn't seem normal to happen 2 days in a row. Do you think if it was the Lasix it would have taken this long to have that effect? She has been on it since Thursday so a week. I will see what the vet says tomorrow.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

I hope they can get her through this thing with the bleeding. Poor girl.

 

[myheart]

Poor Chase.... Did the bleeding stop as well as it did last night? I do hope you are able to get to the bottom of this. I don't know if the bleeding could make Chase more susceptible to infections or abscesses....(?)

Please keep us informed about what the cause is. :hug:

myheart