Chase - UPDATED 5/22/10

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Hey, a few bits of pineapple is better than none! From what I've read, fresh pineapple has at least 25-35mg ascorbic acid per 100g... alternative to oranges anyway (she might really like those too!)
I think bunnies and cats are pretty similar... none of mine particularly like any sort of upheaval and change. It's probably been a wild few weeks for all of you.
I'm delighted that you are managing the sub-Qs so well :)
hmmm... wonder if Little Bunny wants some pineapple?:biggrin2:
Please, give her extra pats for all of us

Autumn
 
She sounds outstanding. I bought the Wiley -Blackwell book on Internal medicne for rabbits. It is a book written for veterinarians. All vets have their own particular manner of doing things butI would guess that Randy and your new vet would be on the same page.

Wish I could get a vet that qualified ...

Chase is in good hands....

and I would ask the vet tech to assist you with things that come up; if she's nice she won't mind.
 
Oh, sorry I was confused. This new vet does sound really good.

I mention liver because there's an interplay between the pancreas and the liver to control the level of sugar in the blood. In addition, it stores quite a bit of glucose for later use. I also read that the kidney can make glucose. The vet should know more about this.

For future reference, here are typical values for a blood panel in a rabbit:
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Hematology/blood_chemistry.htm
http://books.google.com/books?id=xT...X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPT128,M1

After looking a bit at articles and stuff (should be working of course), it is possible but rare for a rabbit to have diabetes. You need more than one high blood glucose level to diagnose it. Also, with urinary tract problems, there may be another reason for the high glucose. Stress is commonly implicated as a cause of high glucose levels, but I think Chase's were too high for just stress.

HUGE hugs to you all~~
 
The vet tech just left and the sub q fluids went great. All I did was hold Chase and it was over in about 5 minutes. She is so sweet. She said anytime I need anything to call her even if it is something with my cats. She is actually starting vet school next year. I feel so much better about things.

angieluv thanks for looking at the vet's site. I don't know much about what to look for in a rabbit vet and it makes me feel better that you think she sounds great.

tonyshuman, thanks for explaining all that to me. Don't worry about being confused, I am confused myself with everything that is going on. I am going to mention the glucose levels to the vet. I agree it seems pretty high for stress though Chase does get really scared. I am off to look at the sites you posted. Thanks for all your help.
 
Hi Amy, Just checking in on Chase and what is going on with treatments. I didn't want you to think I was ignoring your new thread...

Still sending prayers and hugs your way to ease your frustrations and Chase's pain.

myheart
 
That's fantastic that you have someone you can trust to do the fluids. Maybe this will encourage her to study rabbits will in vet school...:biggrin2:
 
Tomorrow is the big day. I go back to see if the sub q fluids have helped Chase at all. I am so excited because he got the max amount everyday that the vet wanted. I feel like things have to better. I have to get good news tomorrow. I just will becauseI have done what the vet asked. And then I try to bring myself to realize it may not happen, things may not be better. I don't want to set myself up to be disappointed. But I really don't want to think about the bad either. The appointment can not come soon enough.

If you guys can just pray or think or whatever it is you prefer to do that things have gotten better. That some of the calcium has moved out of the bladder. I don't know what I will do if I get more bad news. And to top it off I am taking my other bun who had sludge in November to be checked tomorrow with Chase.

I will post tomorrow when I get back.
 
Best of luck! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you and Chase.

I saw you mention that Chase is peeing a lot now that she's getting sub-q fluids regularly. Hopefully she's been peeing out some of the sludge with it!
 
I'm glad the sub-q is going well.

I'll be keeping you and both bunnies in my thought. Good luck at the appointment!




 
I really hope that the subqutaneous fluids have helped but if not it may take longer than this for anything to change so don't get too discouraged as he has just started treatment.

But I wish you the best of luck tomorrow and please don't be really disapointed if values don't change really quickly

I'll be thinking of both of you
"hugs"

Maureen
 
My very best wishes sent your way:hug2:
Keep going... Even if there is no marked improvement, that doesn't mean that you aren't going in the right direction! Just means that it's baby steps!
 
I read your comment on Luna's post about how Chase is starting to be less upset about the fluids. You are doing such a good job with him. Like the others said, even if there's no change in the blood tests, it can be a slow process and you're going in the right direction. Huge hugs and positive healing thoughts to you and your crew~~
 
Thanks for all the thougths. Chase's appointment went really well yesterday. The goal was for her urine SG to be between 1014-1020. It was 1017. They did an x-ray and said her bladder looks so much better. The vet said she is actually optimistic now. I was happy to hear that but I didn't realize she wasn't on Monday.

One thing they did find on the x-ray was that Chase's muscle either the stitch didn't hold or wasn't stitch properly and he has a gap in her muscle. Before the vet told me she called Chase's old vet who did the surgery and the old vet said she would do surgery for free to fix it. I decided not to go through with the surgery for now. The vet said at this point nothing inside is coming through the muscle. She said it could form scar tissue over the hole and be fine. I couldn't put her through surgery for the third time in 3 months. So I will just wait to see what happens.

Chase will get 150 ml every other day now and still get .5ml of metacam twice a day until Friday when she goes back and will be checked again.

The Little Bunny had such a small amount of sludge the vet isn't worried about it and said it would be fine to just have it checked at her yearly appointment. But to watch her for signs if it does get worse. So that was great.

I am so thankful to have gotten good news. The sub q's are helping and I owe so much to this vet tech.

I did talk to the vet about the things that were mentioned here. She didn't think acidifying the urine would be a good thing at this point. She also thinks the glucose was high because of stress and she wasn't concerned about it since diabetes isn't a real risk. She also did not feel doing an EC titer would show anything.

Thanks everyone.
 
Yay for progress!! I personally would still be concerned about the root cause of the sludge, which could be EC, or one of any other things. An EC titer isn't cheap, but early treatment is important if he has it.
 
I believe the vet thinks the root cause is Chase's lack of water intake to flush the bladder though she isn't sure. All other tests came back negative.

I am kind of confused about EC. I have had 2 vets that have told me there was no reason to test for it. I am going to do some more research on it. Does EC cause bladder issues? Maybe if I could find something to show the vet that it could be EC and at least would be worth testing for she would do it. If anyone has any good links about EC and bladder stones/issues I would love to have them. I will print them out and take them with me on Friday to Chase's next appointment. EC is really the only test that I know of that has not been run already. I am not to concerned with the cost as long as it isn't like $1000. I have already spent about $3000 in the last 3 months.

Thanks everyone.


ETA: I am not sure if I will repeat this correctly but the vet also said in regard to testing for EC it doesn't tell if the rabbit is actually having symptoms of it just what there levels are which could be from exposure from along time ago and have nothing to do with the current situation. I am sure I am not saying it exactly as she said it but it was something along those lines. I then asked if testing several times to see if the levels goes up or stays the same (remember reading that on here) she said it still wouldn't really tell anything.
 
I really cannot find an article specific to EC and kidney/bladder issues. The reason that I believe thatRandy brought it up as a concern is that if the rabbit has active EC the body of the rabbit responds to the infection by the creation of antibodies. Lesions called granulomas develop;.granulomasare localized areas of inflammation where the infection is being fought and are most common in the brain, kidneys, heart,and spinal cord. It is the presence of the granulomas that usually cause the symptoms of the illness.

if Chase had EC it might be easier to explain why he is having so many bladder/kidney issues as the infection may have localized in his kidneys.

Since you have an exellent vet andChase is improving their isn't a need to push at your DR to get EC titers (as a baseline) if the vet doesn't want to

it is just gathering more info.

the most important thing is that Chase is improving
 
I amso happy for you and Chase!!! Sounds like all of your TLC is paying off for her improved health. Gives me a tiny glimmer of hope for my little girl, even though it's her kidneys and not her bladder.

Thanks for the pep-talk on Luna's thread. It was consoling to hear that even a tech has a bit of trouble from time to time. Luna just had me so riled up from her getting such a wild look in her eyes like she needed to get out right then and there. I don't think there would have been much I could have done to have kept her contained and quiet. I was so afraid that the needle would cause damage to her when she struggled, that it just seemed best to let her go. How do you tell them it is for their own good...?

myheart
 
EC can be a difficult disease to diagnose. Many vets learned that the first sign of EC is head tilt, which is not true. It is a parasite that enters through the GI tract. An active infection starts in the kidneys, and replicates itself there, which can cause problems with the urinary tract as the rabbit is shedding EC spores in its urine. It can also affect hind leg mobility in this stage of the disease. Eventually it works its way to the brainstem, where it causes head tilt, or "wry neck," which used to be what EC was called. At this point, the disease is much harder to treat as it is difficult to get many drugs into the brain to kill the parasite.

This article is very good but a bit long: http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-2/e-cuniculi.html

An EC titer will most likely be positive for almost any bunny, and beyond being positive it is difficult to tell whether or not it is indicative of an active case. It is controversial as to whether a high titer for EC means that there is an active case or not, as discussed in the article mentioned (and pretty much any article I've seen). This is probably what your vet knows. I have read, however, that Randy has had success treating several rabbits with EC, and he believes in checking the EC titer to determine the progress of the disease (PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong--don't want to put words in anyone's mouth).

I think the real concern here is that we don't know what's causing the sludge because it doesn't appear to be dietary, and I don't think a bacterial infection is suspected for Chase (yes or no?). I don't think it's very common for a rabbit to have sludge for the rest of their life--sludge means some part of the urinary tract isn't working correctly and that needs to be addressed. That's why we have been reccomending an EC titer.

Big HUGS and healing wishes~~
 

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