Chase - UPDATED 5/22/10

[Amy27]

angieluv, Thanks for the information. I don't think Chase was tested for a kidney infection. They checked for kidney disease and bladder disease and infection. If a rabbit has EC and it is affecting the kidneys and/or bladder would kidney disease or bladder disease come back positive on lab results? Or would you have to actually check the kidney's for infection? Maybe I can ask the vet about checking for a kidney infection. That is one test that I don't believe that has been done yet. I hope my questions made sense.

myheart, it is so hard. You can't tell them it is good for them. I know I have tried lol. I have tried to tell Chase just sit for 5 mintues and it will be over instead of all this repoking you. I think I have just come to realize there are going to be good days where she will get all her fluids and bad days where she won't. I just hope for more good days then bad days. Keep up the good work. You are doing such a good job with Luna. I really hope this helps her.

tonyshuman, thanks for the article. Can you read the quesitons I posted for angieluv and let me know what you think also since you mentioned the kidney infections. I just wonder if all the lab tests for kidney disease came back normal if that would or could be the case.

I agree that it is concerning that they don't know the root cause. No one has mentioned that a bacterial infection is suspected. I would hope that if that was the problem it would have shown up on the lab results. Is that correct or is there another test that should be done? I don't think it is in this thread but Chase had a blood draw, urinalysis, and a bladder biopsy done. Nothing showed signs of infection.

Thanks everyone for all your help. Sorry for all my questions. I just don't understand a lot of it and want to make sure that if there is another test that should be done that I do get the vet to do them. I would really like to find the root cause so Chase doesn't have to go through this the rest of her life.

 

[Amy27]

I was wondering if you could hold a rabbits scruff to get them to hold still? I don't mean pick them up by the scruff. The reason I ask is because Chase has been bad the past few days about getting her sub q fluids. The vet tech asked me about holding her by her scuff today and I wasn't sure. I know I have read it is painful to pick them up by it. She said that with cats and ferrets they will hold onto their scruff and it just makes them hold still. I wanted to check to see if that would be ok for a rabbit before doing it. Any other ideas to get her to hold still are appreciated. We have tried wrapping her up in a towel and moving places but she still moves and whines and will try to eat the towel if she can. Thanks

 

[naturestee]

I would first try getting a carrier with a door in the top. Or another small carrier/cage type- Myheart is using a small travel crate that helped with Luna today. I would think it would be difficult or more painful to put the needle in while she's scruffed.

Scruffing is ok if it's done properly- usually the ears are also held but no weight put on them, and the second hand fully supporting their rear. I don't know if it would settle Chase down at all. It would just make mine angry.

 

[myheart]

I saw your post last night, sorry I didn't respond sooner, but the words about scruffing wouldn't come to me at the time.

Your vet tech friend suggested scruffing because it is what she is comfortable with. They are taught the proper way to do it to protect themselves when small critters are not cooperating. I will say from personal experience that I am comfortable trimming toe nails because I have done it a bazillion times and am not fazed when the animal cries or tries to get away.

I personally would not be comfortable scruffing because I would never handle an animal that way. Besides, there are so many stories of rabbits that flinch when ever a hand reaches toward them. Wonder why....? Poor thing could have been hit or scruffed too many times, aside from not being handled in the first place.

As you know, I am having similar troubles with Luna. I have chosen to think like a bunner. When are they the most secure? When they are in a tunnel, a hole, a space that is just big enough for their body. Have you ever seen show or meat cages for rabbits? They are big, flat cages that have compartments that are just big enough for one rabbit per compartment, but cage could hold ten rabbits total. The first time I saw one, I thought how cruel for them to travel that way. But now I understand that the cage actually keeps them calm because it takes away any opportunity to flee (fight or flight).

I will pm pics of what I have set up for Luna. Day two and it has worked again. I agree with the top-load kennel, but find one that is so small that Chase has no option but to sit still. I know there will still be wiggle room for her because they really don't make kennels that small. Just think shoe-box size....

Do what you are comfortable with and what Chase is comfortable with. Is Chase bonded? I have been leaving Patch and Zappa in the room with us to provide Luna support. They are there for her the moment she is left out of the cage to comfort her after her ordeal.

Hope some of this helps. Pics will be sent later this evening for you.

myheart

 

[Amy27]

Thanks for the replies. I did stop at the pet store and walmart tonight and picked up a carrier that opens from the top. I really don't think it is small enough but it is the smallest they had. I am going to try it and if it is to big I will return it and look around for a smaller one.

Chase use to be bonded before her surgery but they unbonded and we had some fights so I decided that for now we have enough going on and will try to rebond them at another time. It is sad because both bunnies are lonely and Chase really wants to be with the other bunny but the other bunny won't have it.

I would love to see pictures of what you are using so if this doesn't work when I go out looking I will have a better idea.

Thanks again

 

[naturestee]

Maybe you could stuff some towels or something in there to reduce the space? I hope this works for you!

 

[Amy27]

naturestee, thanks thats a great idea I will try that.

 

[myheart]

I have just sent the pm with pics of Luna's set-up for her sub-q fluids. Let me know if you do not receive it....

myheart

 

[Amy27]

Thanks myheart I received it and sent ya a message back. I really appreciate you taking the time to send those to me.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

We know someone who's bunny was scruffed at the 4H meeting and they broke its back.

I can't do it.......not even with cats but Lexi does with Diesel some...... :nerves1

 

[Amy27]

OMG that is awful. When we were thinking about doing it with Chase we were going to keep her feet on the ground. We were hoping that with just holding that area it would make her still. But I think the smaller carrier will work better and be much safer. I wouldn't want to risk hurting her. The poor thing has been through enough. I hope that bunny that had her back broken is ok.

 

[Amy27]

Chase goes back to the vet tomorrow for another check up. One thing I was wondering about is the Metacam she has basically been on since her surgery 3 weeks ago. I know long term use of metacam can be dangerous. I tried to look around on the internet to get more information about it but couldn't find anything. I want to make sure I know what I am talking abot tomorrow and make a good decision on whether she should stay on it or not. If anyone could give me some information on it I would appreciate it. I believe I read on here somewhere it can cause kidney disease but I don't know if that is right and I can't find the thread. I also am not sure what is considered long term use. Is 3 weeks long term?

Thanks

 

[naturestee]

I'm not sure what is considered long term use either. But it should be safer because of the sub-q fluids, which help to keep the kidneys flushed. Otherwise yes, it can sometimes do some kidney damage. If I remember right, Luna was put on Metacam (and Tramadol) but the vet said it should be alright because of the fluids.

Does Chase still need pain meds? I'd ask the vet and see about takingher off them and seeing how she does.

Bo- that's awful. It shouldn't happen if the rabbit is handled properly and supported under the rear, but some people just don't think of that. Some of the techs at the shelter scruff, but more often with cats especially if they're strays. Again though, they're properly trained.

 

[Amy27]

Thanks naturestee for teh information. I didn't think about the fluids helping. Chase is getting the Metacam for inflammation she has in her bladder. Sorry should have mentioned that in my post.

 

[naturestee]

Ah, yeah she might still need it then. Luna is getting it for inflammation in her kidneys.

 

[Amy27]

Well we are back from the vet. On the x-ray Chase's bladder looked the same, same amount of sludge. They tried to get a urine sample but there really wasn't any in her bladder.

She will go back to getting 150ml of sub q's everyday for 2 weeks and will also be getting Lasix 12.5mg twice a day. The vet is hoping the Lasix will get her drinking more but if not atleast she has the sub q's to keep her hydrated. Does anyone know anything about Lasix? That is one drug I have never heard about on here before. I am alittle nervous about giving it to her. The vet said they are not sure about long term use of Lasix because they mainly use it on rabbits with heart failure so they pass away before they know if there would have been any problems if the rabbit used the drug long term. She thinks short term it should be fine.

Chase is so tired of being pricked and poked. I really feel bad for her. I don't know how much more I can do this. I am really trying but it is wearing me down. Not including how much this is costing me. I just want things to go back the way they were 3 months ago, before Chase even got her first stone.

Thanks for being here for me.

 

[myheart]

I don't know much about Lasix.... My Maggie had to have Lasix and sub-q fluids to help her get over pneumonia. The sub-q adds fluids, but the Lasix takes it out...at least that is how it was explained to me back then. I'm sure Naturestee will chime in soon on that one.

I am starting to feel the same way as you do Amy. Please know how much my heart aches for you and Chase. I wish for all the same things also... to go back in time when it was just veggies and cuddles. It was just the thing of knowing they were happy, healthy, and cuddling with their bond-mates. It was so much easier not having to worry about time of day for meds or fluids, vet checks, and diets.

Don't break yet... Chase needs you to be strong for her.

myheart

 

[Maureen Las]

Lasix is a medication that I have given (as a human RN) to patients many times but never to a rabbit. It is a diuretic that blocks the absorption of sodium and fluid in the kidney tubules which causes a much greater urine output. Because of the greater urine output electrolytes can be lost so the use needs to be monitored.
You need to give the sq fluids regularly in order toreplace the electrolytes lost.

Such a shame that you are going through so much

 

[BethM]

:hug2:

 

[Amy27]

Thanks myheart, I hope we both get some good news sometime soon. We can only take so much. I wish I would have cherished those days with cuddles and veggies more, I may never get them back. Thanks for saying Chase needs me to be strong. I need to keep telling myself that.

angieluv thanks for replying. I hope the sub q's we are giving will be enough. I am hoping that when we return in 2 weeks that they will take Chase off the Lasix, I think 2 weeks is enough time. I don't want her to get worse from the meds they are giving her.

What can I watch for to make sure the Lasix isn't effecting her with electrolytes and dehydration. How do you know if a bunny is dehydrated?


Thanks for the hug Beth, I really appreciate it.