Chase - UPDATED 5/22/10

[Amy27]

I couldn't believe she laughed at me either. I don't know if I am taking it wrong like she laughed at the fact I though they would see rabbits or if may be it is just something no one has ever called and asked. I so want to call them back and ask them what they consider pocket pets.

There is another holistic vet in my area and on the website it states they see rabbits so I will see if they do accupuncture on them. When I look for a vet who does accupuncture do I need them to be just as rabbit savvy as a regular vet or is it ok if they only see a few rabbits a year? I would imagine that it would be very hard to find a holistic rabbit savvy vet.

Ok this is what bothers me about the other holistic vet and the reason I didn't call them first. Under your first visit this is what it says:

We recommend that you withhold food from your pet for 12 hours before your visit, in case a blood test is needed. (No food, but water is okay.)


I don't think it is ok to put a blanket statement like that on your website. I know how harmful it can be to rabbits to withhold food. What if an owner didn't know better? Or if an animal was sick and had to havefood? I just really think that is wrong.

 

[tonyshuman]

That's terrible that she laughed. This is so difficult for you and Chase and Little Bunny, and I don't know what more you can do for her. You're doing so much for her already. I don't know what to say but I hope things improve. [[hugs]]

 

[myheart]

Amy27 wrote:

Chase and I are just DONE with all of this. She bit me today she was so upset about her sub q's and left a mark, luckily it didn't break the skin. She is just over it as I am. She is sad, I think because she misses her bunny friend who still growls and tries to bite her through 2 cages. I just want BOTH of my happy bunnies back.

It has been almost 4 weeks since Chase started sub q's. I will not continue to give them everyday. I will try to work with the vet and will do every other day but everyday for this long is to much. If the vet thinks that won't work then they need to go up there with a catheter and flush it out. If I had done that 4 weeks ago I may be ahead right now. Everyday is just to much. It took along time to give Chase her fluids tonight and I think it was 3 pokes. I am just so upset that they can't do more. I would do anything pay anything if I just knew what to do.

:hug::hug2::bunnyhug:Iwish we had more hugging smileys 'cause there just don't seem to be enough for what you, Chase, and Little Bunny are going through.

I feel the same way as you do.... I so wish none of this had happened to my Luna because it is just not right and not fair. I hate giving the sub-q's because I am just not confident/comfortable enough with giving it. Luna had me in tears, and my hands were shaking so badly, that I could do nothing but let her go because it wasn't fair to try sticking the needle in so many times that she started thumping about it. Gosh, I am in tears just thinking about that day....

If you still plan on waiting until Friday for Chase's next appointment, do what you feel is right. I know my vet told me, as well as a few forum member, that it is okay to miss a day every so often. Some days are just not good needle-stick days, I guess.

What ever you do, don't feel like you let her down. Sometimes I feel like the worst bunny-mom/pet guadian in the whole world because I can't make Luna better. If I can't stick a needle into my pet, that doesn't mean that I don't love her, I just can't do it at that moment in time because I need her to be okay with it also. If you and Chase are both frustrated, let it rest and re-group. Or only try to get half the amount into her so it doesn't take so long.

Friday is not that far away....

myheart

 

[Amy27]

Thanks you guys. Thank you also for mentioning Little Bunny. She is kind of the forgotten one right now though I try to do what I can to let her know I still love her. It always makes me smile on here when people mention her. It also helps me to remember that she is having a rough time too.

I am usually not real worried about Chase getting all her fluids but tonight I was like it is the count down till you go to the vet, we gotta flush your bladder, you got to get these fluids.

I have a vet tech that comes and helps me give the fluids so it is hard for me to let her calm down and try again later.

Myheart you are so right it just isn't fair. When I read your posts I feel the same way as you a lot of the time. I kept thinking it would get easier, that Chase would get use to it and it really doesn't. I really hope myheart that you, me, Luna and Chase have some better days coming. Part of it makes me mad. There are people who would not do or spend what we are for our rabbits. I think most people would on this website but in general there are people that wouldn't. We are doing so much why can't we get a break? Why can't they do something to make our bunny's better. I hope we get the break we deserve soon.

 

[Maureen Las]

Amy27 wrote:

Thanks tonyshuman.

I just need to vent, you don't have to reply. I am just hoping I will feel better after typing it out.

Chase and I are just DONE with all of this. She bit me today she was so upset about her sub q's and left a mark, luckily it didn't break the skin. She is just over it as I am. She is sad, I think because she misses her bunny friend who still growls and tries to bite her through 2 cages. I just want BOTH of my happy bunnies back.

It has been almost 4 weeks since Chase started sub q's. I will not continue to give them everyday. I will try to work with the vet and will do every other day but everyday for this long is to much. If the vet thinks that won't work then they need to go up there with a catheter and flush it out. If I had done that 4 weeks ago I may be ahead right now. Everyday is just to much. It took along time to give Chase her fluids tonight and I think it was 3 pokes. I am just so upset that they can't do more. I would do anything pay anything if I just knew what to do.

Then I called the holistic vet near me today and the lady laughed, that is really what I need when I am already over all of this. I asked her if they did accupuncture on rabbits because there website says they do accupuncture. She said no. I asked if they saw rabbits at all thinking may be they would have ideas of other holistic approches. She laughed and said no we only see cats and dogs. I really wanted to ask her what was funny about it. Do rabbits not deserve that type of care? But I figured I was to emotional and over reacting so I just said ok and hung up.

Ok after the book I wrote I do feel better. I just want to find something that works. It is just so hard for me to understand why this can't be corrected.

I cannot believe that woman laughed at you ; that really p...me off as you are going through enough torment to have someone laugh at your atempts to help your rabbit.

Iguess that some people do think less of small animals but it isn't right as they deserve the same as any animal.

Maybe you can find an acupuncturist through here or another rabbit site or HRS in your state.

i feel sad for all you and Chase (and also Luna and Janet) are going through with these subq's ; it really is heart breaking to hear you talk about it.

If I lived near you i would come over and help you "(hugs)"

Maureen

 

[NorthernAutumn]

I feel so sad to read that Chase is struggling with her Sub-Qs right now, Amy. This is very hard on your whole crew, and I'm sorry you have to go through it right now. :hug:.

That laughing lady needs a smack:grumpy:. Was she just a receptionist? I've found that some vets employ very ignorant folks... I would call back and ask to speak with the vet directly.

Nose rubs to Chase and Little Bunny, and Big HUGS to you! Friday is tomorrow... You're almost there

Autumn

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Me too. It makes me so sad..... I'm thinking of all of you

 

[Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears]

Amy I've been following your post since the being and I'm sorry your having a rough time with Chase and Little Bunny.
I hope everything gets better for you soon.
Hugs to the 3 of you. :hug1:bunnyhug:

 

[Amy27]

Thanks everyone for the thoughts. Chase, Little Bunny and I all appreciate them.

I am glad it wasn't just me that thought that lady was rude for laughing. The lady that laughed was the receptionist. I don't think I would ever go to that place because of the receptionist, even if I talked to the vet and she would do it. Anyone that employees someone that thinks rabbits don't deserve the same healthcare options that cats and dogs get I won't give them a cent of my money.

The good news is I called another holistic vet this morning and have an appt for next week. The appt is for a holistic consult and then the vet will decide if he thinks accupuncture will help. The vet has done accupuncture on rabbits a few times but not a lont. I am going to go and see what he says and will try to go with my guy feeling. Makes me nervous that he isn't rabbit savvy but I don't think I will find a rabbit savvy holistic vet. And let me tell you holistic vets are expensive. The consult is $65 for the exam and then $73 for every 15 minutes for the holistic consult. I am going to make sure I have all my questions written down so hopefully we can do it in 15 min. I was afraid to ask how much the actual accupuncture costs.

Can't wait till Chase's appointment tomorrow. I really hope we get some decent news.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[myheart]

Wishing all you the best of luck on Chase's appointment!!! Please keep us updated when you have the chance to take a breath.

ray:

myheart

 

[Amy27]

Well you guys I think your good thoughts worked. Chase's bladder is free of calcium except for a line where the vet thinks her incision was. She said incisions tend to attract calcium and it stays there so she isn't worried about that at all. I really couldn't believe it. I was hoping for some good news but not this good. She showed me her x-rays and you can really see a difference. I am so happy.

Now I need to keep it gone. Last time by the time Chase had her stitches removed the calcium was back. The vet is keeping her on the Lasix. She will get sub q's atleast every 3rd day. If she doesn't drink every other day. Which brings me to my next problem. Chase doesn't drink. She hasn't drank anything in 2 weeks. The vet is hoping that with less bub q's and the Lasix it will get her to drink. Any ideas on how to get her to drink I would love to hear them. Here is what I have tried so far water bottle, water bowl in all different sizes, an animal baby bottle, mixing cranberry or fruit juice in her water, and I have puried cilantro into a liquid form. None of that worked. I have tried to take the water bottle or bowl to her and she won't drink. Oh I also tried my cats water fountain. Any other ideas are very much appreciated.

 

[slavetoabunny]

Try a few drops of vanilla in Chase's water. I've never had to do this myself, but I've heard it recommended.

 

[Amy27]

I think the problem is Chase doesn't even try her water to see if she even likes what is in it.

I will try the vanilla and see how that works. Do you buy like the vanilla extract and use that?

 

[Maureen Las]

I don't know anything about vanilla ; I have heardabout vanilla extract but doesn't ithave alcohol in it ( I think am not sure) so wait until you find out.

I am SO SO Glad that she is better ..really glad

Since Chase and Luna have had bladder'kidney issues I have become paranoid about it happening to my rabbits.
I have been giving my one big non drinker (Rudy)juice mixed with water and it is working well; his poops are much better.
I really don't knowhow you can get water in her if the juice (try all different flavors and kinds?) doesn't work
unless you can syringe fluids like juice and water and get her used to drinking from a syringe ( Beau is addicted to pedialyte from a syringe since he was sick with dental problems)
or do the wet greens thing but you have probably tried that

Since pedialyte has some sodium in it it might give a bun more of a thirst so you may want to try that .
I really don't have any great new ideas on this
but am so GLAD that she is better

 

[BethM]

Amy, I am SO HAPPY to hear the good news!

 

[Amy27]

Thank you guys. Tonight I was sitting here on the computer and I hear the cat water fountain refill with water. I slowly turn around and who is standing there? Chase. So I moved that to her room. I am not sure how to measure if she is drinking with that big thing. I know the cat will jump the gate and drink out of it to. It is all she drinks out of usually. Looks like I may have to buy another one. I guess I will just have to try and watch her a lot and hope I see her drinking.

The vet didn't want to see her back for a month. I don't think I can wait that long. If she isn't drinking in a month a stone could start to form.

angieluv I am glad you have taken our stories and tried to prevent it in your bun. I haven't been on this board long but have you guys seen other bladder/kidney issues like this before on here? My vet told me 15% of rabbits she x-rays have some calcium build up. She stated that not all of those have symptoms some they are x-raying the heart or something else and see the calcium. I am still soaking Chase's greens so she will get water that way. If that is something you could do the vet seems to think the greens could almost hold enough to keep her healthy without drinking but she isn't sure.

I have tried a syringe before and only got like .2 cc's in Chase. But if that is what it comes down to that is what I will do.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[myheart]

I am so happy for all of you!!!! I don't think you could have asked for a better result from all of your effort than finding almost no calcium. I do hope Chase is able to maintain a clean bladder from here on.

Great job Amy, Chase, and Little Bunny. Take a breath and have a good night's sleep.

myheart

 

[Maureen Las]

Amy27 wrote:

Thank you guys. Tonight I was sitting here on the computer and I hear the cat water fountain refill with water. I slowly turn around and who is standing there? Chase. So I moved that to her room. I am not sure how to measure if she is drinking with that big thing. I know the cat will jump the gate and drink out of it to. It is all she drinks out of usually. Looks like I may have to buy another one. I guess I will just have to try and watch her a lot and hope I see her drinking.

The vet didn't want to see her back for a month. I don't think I can wait that long. If she isn't drinking in a month a stone could start to form.

angieluv I am glad you have taken our stories and tried to prevent it in your bun. I haven't been on this board long but have you guys seen other bladder/kidney issues like this before on here? My vet told me 15% of rabbits she x-rays have some calcium build up. She stated that not all of those have symptoms some they are x-raying the heart or something else and see the calcium. I am still soaking Chase's greens so she will get water that way. If that is something you could do the vet seems to think the greens could almost hold enough to keep her healthy without drinking but she isn't sure.

I have tried a syringe before and only got like .2 cc's in Chase. But if that is what it comes down to that is what I will do.

Thanks again everyone.

Actually I think a lot of the bladder /kidney problems are genetic..BUT there is so much differing info that I thought I would play it safe.

I have even eliminated some of the calcium rich veggies that I used to feed

I don't remember bladder problems like this before on RO but I have only been a mod since July . I remember reading quite a bit about bunnies with sludge (etherbun posts) not sure.
I have one rabbit, Rudy, that is a sludge bunny waiting to happen. He is older, slightly overweight, doesn't move around much and barely drinks water. he always has concentrated pee. The problems with Chase and Luna sort of kicked me into action with him

I am giving him water diluted with cranberry juice and also cut his pellets even more. .

He isn't sludgey now but I think he has the potential.
I did have an acute renal failure bunny, Gabriel. I did not try to prolong his life because of the severity of his problems. he was a victim of severe dehydration and starvation when he was still a baby and I know that it affected his kidneys severely. he died very young.

I also had a dog with chronic kidney failure but she lived a long life and only was really sick the last month of her life.
I wish that in time their is more definitive info on genetics vs diet because we could all breath easier and wouldnt need to feel like we did something wrong if our rabbit gets sludge , stones etc
I have no idea why Chase doens't drink ????

 

[tonyshuman]

Good news! I have read about calcium accumulating on scars in the bladder as well (somewhere...) so that is not at all unusual, but of course you need to make sure Chase is drinking. Sounds like he may need a water fountain of his own! I have heard adding a teaspoon on vanilla to a gallon of water--so maybe a drop to each dish. I don't think the alcohol content matters because it's such a small amount. I bet Chase does have a genetic issue with calcium absorption--it can be pretty common and you really have done everything you can to eliminate calcium from the diet. You may consider adding a bottle (or crock, whichever you don't have already).

I hope he continues to be sludge-free!

 

[Amy27]

angieluv, one thing that gets me with the genetic factor is what makes it happen at a certain point. Let me try to explain that better. Chase is about 5, I have had her since she was about 6 months old. She has never had any bladder issues until the last 5 months. So even if it is genetics you wouldn't know if your bun has it, right? It could come into play years after you have them. I am not sure that is right but just the way I understood when I asked my vet why Chase didn't have this problem from the beginning if it was genetics. I think it is great you are doing what you are doing with Rudy because how would you know if he has the genetics for it.

I probably shouldn't even go there because there are so many genetic problems and we can never know if our rabbits carry them. It would be nice to know that by this age of a rabbit they would have had problems if they had a genetic problem for any disease. But I guess it could just show up anytime in there life.

I hope I haven't made you or anyone else paranoid about it I just find it interesting and find other peoples thoughts on it interesting. I try to compare it to humans in the sense that you can be born with the genes for diabetes but that doesn't mean you develop diabetes as a baby. But there are several disease that are gentic that show at birth. Is there an age your bunny becomes safe from getting a disease or problem that is genetic?

tonyshuman, Monday I ended up buying Chase a fountain of his own. I put the cat fountain in there but Chase wasn't to happy to have them visit her room whenever they wanted to play in it. Bad thing is I can't tell if she is drinking out of it, but she is urinating so that is a good sign. Right now Chase has a foutain, 3 water bottles and 2 water bowls in her room. I can't think of any other options to give her. I think if she won't drink out of those 3 she won't drink on her own.