Chase - UPDATED 5/22/10

[Amy27]

angieluv wrote:

Amy27 wrote:

The vet did mention down the road we could use a supplement and I wish while I was there I had thought to ask why it had to be down the road. When she mentioned it, it didn't sound like something she really wanted to do. I may call and ask for clarification on why I would need to wait to try that.

It would make things a lot easier to do it that way. Plus a lot cheaper. I know with the banana's I waste a lot because they go black before Chase will finish one. After I peel one I can keep it good for a day or two and then I have to toss it.

I do have a few questions with feeding broccoli. Do you guys cut off most of the stem? Is it okay for them to eat the stem? I thought I read somewhere broccoli can cause gas but I can't find it now. Is that true? Do you think I could soak the broccoli in water and it would absorb it or would it make it soggy and gross?

Thanks

I think that if you looked at the link for potassium supplements that their probably is a chance of giving too much; maybe your vet never used them but it's worth looking into . Gaining weight isn't going to help her any....

Inever give broccoli LOL because it gives me gas and if it gives me gas I am afraid to give it to my rabbits

I was thinking I might be able to give Chase the same amount I am now but just in a pill form so there wasn't additional calories. If I figured out how much she would be getting from the broccoli, banana, raisins, and canelope I would give her the same amount in a pill form if I could. Does that make sense? So hopefully she wouldn't get an overdose and if there was that would probably mean I was giving to much in food form.

But that link said it can cause stomach upset and you have to take it with 8 oz of water. I would never get Chase to drink that much water. She gets almost all of her water from her greens. I really don't want to chance her stomach being upset either and have her stop eating her greens because she would get dehydrated them. So maybe it isn't a great idea. I know that the banana, raisins and so far the broccoli isn't causing any stomach problems.

I am glad to know a couple of you give broccoli without a problem. So far it doesn't seem to bother Chase but I have been giving her real small pieces to start out. GOod to know the stem is fine for her to eat to.

Thanks

 

[Amy27]

Chase went back to the vet today and the news was not great, not awful but not great.

The sludge has returned. The vet wanted to start sub q's but I asked for her to give me a month. I really don't want to put Chase through that again. The vet agreed. I want to try and flavor Chase's water with banana flavoring as she has grown to love her nightly banana. Though after going to the store tonight, I realize that may not be easy. There is no banana flavored juices. I did buy a V8 fruit and veggie juice that is strawberry and banana flavored so we will see. I am also going to increase her veggies. she already gets two dinner plates of veggies a day and is over weight.

Also her herniation from her previous surgery where the stitches didn't hold is getting really big. The vet said it is the width of 3 fingers. Right now only fat is coming through the hole but the vet feels that because it has gotten bigger organs could start to come through, which would mean she would have to have surgery again. From where the herniation is positioned the vet thinks it will be the bladder that will start to come through first. We were really hoping the herniated would close with scar tissue but that isn't happening.

The good news is her potassium is good. So the Lasix isn't causing any problems there.

I really wish we could find some permanent solutions to Chase's problems. This is getting so frustrating and is putting a huge financial strain on me.

Chase is still happy as can be. I am happy to know that she is feeling better then she did before the surgery and starting all this, and that is what keeps me going.

Thanks to all of you for always being here for Chase and I.

 

[myheart]

I really do understand your personal pain and frustration. How much more do you do for them under such circumstances that are emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and financially draining? Luna is doing well also... still eating like a piggie and doing binkies. Most excellent signs for her condition. We still do fluids every other day along with pain meds. One day at a time.... but I still hate doing this stuff to her. She doesn't deserve this condition and I have serious doubts if I am still strong enough to take care of her.

Please do whatever you feel is right in your heart for Chase. She is a happy girl for right now, and those moments should be treasured. I would never say anything bad if you, or Chase, didn't feel good about more treatments. You probably expected the sludge might come back at some time, just not so soon,and compounded with prior surgical procedures that should have had better results, I understand your hesitations.Please be careful of the "what-if's" that might follow any decisions you make.

ray: Prayers for all the best for yourself, Chase, and Little Bunny.

myheart

 

[Maureen Las]

myheart wrote:

I really do understand your personal pain and frustration. How much more do you do for them under such circumstances that are emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and financially draining? Luna is doing well also... still eating like a piggie and doing binkies. Most excellent signs for her condition. We still do fluids every other day along with pain meds. One day at a time.... but I still hate doing this stuff to her. She doesn't deserve this condition and I have serious doubts if I am still strong enough to take care of her.

Please do whatever you feel is right in your heart for Chase. She is a happy girl for right now, and those moments should be treasured. I would never say anything bad if you, or Chase, didn't feel good about more treatments. You probably expected the sludge might come back at some time, just not so soon,and compounded with prior surgical procedures that should have had better results, I understand your hesitations.Please be careful of the "what-if's" that might follow any decisions you make.

ray: Prayers for all the best for yourself, Chase, and Little Bunny.

myheart

I am so sorry that the sludge is back. Janet"s thoughts on this also sum up mine. Give it some time and you will know what to doray:
"Hugs"

Maureen

 

[Amy27]

Thank you both for your kind words. I am going to try and keep fighting as long as Chase has a positive happy life.

Janet, I am glad Luna is doing good. What a fighter you both are, especially still doing the sub q's. That is awesome. Have you worked out a good routine giving them to Luna? I am just curious because Chase always freaked out about it.

I also wonder if I am strong enough to take care of Chase. Then I look at this little bunny who is fighting and think if she is strong enough, how can I not be. It is so hard.

 

[myheart]

Amy27 wrote:

... I also wonder if I am strong enough to take care of Chase. Then I look at this little bunny who is fighting and think if she is strong enough, how can I not be. It is so hard.

I think that is what keeps me going also. Every morning that I seeLuna do binkiesabout getting out of her pen, begging to get into Patrick's cage for his left over salad, and more binkies for morning berries, I know I have to keep up with the fluids and her meds. I know that the seven minutes every other day that we both dread are still doing some good for her health and attitude.

I am not really doing anything different for giving Luna her fluids. I think I have dips in my confidence level and she is very capable of picking up on that. We are doing better at it of late, which is a relief because that means less tears and heartache on my part. I am also starting to give them a little further down her shoulders, instead of just in her white collar markings.

What Luna and I do works for us, usually. I tried to do the burrito and that was a total disaster. She became antsy causing the needle to get jarred. So I stopped everything and let her go and she ended up bleeding for a bit in that spot. We were both so upset!!! We do the same setup as we did from the beginning, and it works for the most part. No matter what, it just isn't fun or how itwas supposed to be.

myheart

 

[tonyshuman]

Such strong people, and strong rabbits. They really are gentle, calm, and strong presences in our lives.

I'm so sorry that poor health has returned. As for banana, have you considered artificial banana flavoring from the spices aisle at the grocery store? I got some when I was painting some wood chew toys I was making with flavors and food coloring to make a toy for my guys, and they seemed pretty interested in it. I do remember it not being 100% water soluble though.

I'm so sorry that all this difficult stuff is going on. I know it must be difficult to deal with. I hope you can find some extra strength in yourself, in Chase's eyes, and in your talks with us here to pull through this. We are rooting for you 150% and I think about these guys pretty much daily, especially when anything comes up in the Infirmary about urinary tract issues. I know that you have already done a ton of work to make the quality of life for Chase so much better.

[[giant hugs and healing vibes]]

 

[Amy27]

Janet, I am glad things are going better lately. I hope it stays that way. I know when I was looking at videos online when I was starting sub q's with Chase I would see these animals that were use to it just lay there to get their sub q's. I wish it was that easy.

Claire, the vet also mentioned banana flavoring from the spices section. I looked quickly at the grocery store and didn't see any. I need to look a little harder. I did try V8 splash that was banana and strawberry. Chase actually smelled, so I know it smelled different but then she ignored it. The vet also said she can get the banana flavor they use when they compound drugs that I can put in her water.

I do get down, but then one of them always does something to make me laugh or smile and I remember why I am doing this. The people here have also been a huge help. People IRL just don't seem to understand. They think I am crazy so most of the time I don't even tell them what is going on. If it wasn't for you guys I wouldn't have anyone to talk to about it so it really helps.

Thank you for your kind words, rooting for us, and thinking about us. We all appreciate it.

 

[Amy27]

I thought it was time for me to update on Chase's status. There have been so many calcium threads lately that I really want to keep Chase's thread update to help other members and get great advice.

I took Chase for her monthly visit a few weeks ago. The calcium sludge is still in the bladder. I was disappointed, I was really hoping it would be gone. The vet has recommended uping her Lasix dose, but I really don't want to do that. The vet tells me Lasix can have some bad side effects if taken long term. But she isn't really sure what those are as all the bunny's she gives lasix to have water on their heart and never live long enough to know the side effects. I may not have a choice though.

I read some of this thread from when I first posted in January. I felt overwhelmed at that time and think there are some suggestions in there that I may have over looked or didn't push enough about to the vet. Chase will be getting blood work at the next appointment so I am going to ask for her glucose level and vitamin d levels to be taken.

The sludge isn't bothering Chase at all so far, she is still acting like her happy crazy self.

 

[billinjax]

It is interesting that you mention that Chase is behaving normal. I'm currently in the same boat with Jack. He's acting normal but still has quite a bit of sludge. (e.g. the straining and grunting noises have stopped)

I know I've read somewhere that *some* sludge may be normal. Maybe there's just a trick to keeping below a level that impacts the rabbits. How long has Chase been symptom free? (I need to start logging such things in the book I use to record his weight)

I have a picture of his sludge expression from Monday. (Will need to figure out to how post it) The vet actually took a picture for her file. She placed a quarter next to the lower half to show the size. I think it was 4-6 grams. I think the other vet got much more out when I first brought him in for an emergency but she was still nonetheless impressed with this amount.

 

[Amy27]

Chase has pretty much been sympton free since January when the last stone was removed. She got sludge again immediatly and we used the lasix and soaking the greens and in a few months (I think) it had cleared up. Then she got sludge again in July that I haven't been able to get rid of. I did sub q's for a while but her sludge didn't go down until she started the lasix.

My vet has said that some sludge is normal. She stated that she will have rabbits come in for other issues and she will take an x-ray of like the stomach and see a little bit of sludge. With those rabbits she just monitors them.

I have to admit, I use this thread as my log a lot. I can go back and see when I posted something. It also is helpful to other members who may go through this. It seems with these types of issues it is just trying all different things until you find out what works. I keep all my updates in this thread, it makes it easy for me and other members to read about it. I would love to see you have a thread so I could track what you are trying and what is working. I know there is another member, myheart who has a bunny with kidney stones and her thread is really interesting to read. Her thread discusses what she has tried and how it worked. It would be awesome to see the picture. Is it an acutal picture they printed out for you? Do you have a scanner you could scan it into your computer and then upload it to photobucket to post?

 

[Amy27]

You guys are not going to believe this!!!!

Ok first, to recap, it has been a year this month when Chase had her first stone removed. She had about 2 months out of that year that she was sludge/stone free. A month ago, with Chase's wierd chewing. I started her on pellets.

When I took her to the vet today her bladder looked better then it EVER has!!!! The vet couldn't believe it. She kept saying I don't understand what worked, what changed. The vet was very excited. But, only one thing changed. Chase started getting pellets. It had been 4 years or so since Chase had pellets.

There have been so many threads lately about rabbits and vitamins and minerals. May be it was the vitamin D she was missing. What if the lack of vitamins and/or minerals was the cause of all of this!!! It is amazing me that the thing some vets tell you to take away or decrease when a rabbit has a calcium issue, may actually help.

I guess only time will tell. But I am so happy and so intriged about it all.

Chase doesn't have to go to the vet for 2 months. She has never been able to go that long before. The vet said if it still looked good at the next appointment we may be able to go longer between appointments and stop the Lasix. The vet could not believe the difference. She said if she hadn't taken the x-rays herself, she wouldn't believe it.

I owe so much thanks to all of you. I am 00% positive if it wasn't for the great members on this site, Chase would not be where she is, may be not even here with me. Thank you guys sooo much. I can never thank you guys enough, and neither could Chase.

 

[JadeIcing]

This is the best news!!!!! :bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance:

 

[BethM]

That's AWESOME!!!!!

 

[Maureen Las]

Amy ...
that is wonderful news. inkelepht:
AmI correct that you are feeding Oxbow Organic rabbit?

Iused you and Chase as an example thread for learning about sludge.

Good work Amy :highfive:Give yourself some credit for this success also !!!

'Hugs"

Maureen

 

[Amy27]

Thank you guys

I am trying not to get my hopes up too much but I am just so excited.

Angieluv, I am feeding Oxbow Organic Rabbit. Both my buns, after not getting pellets for years loved it right away. Well, once they got over the fact I was putting something they were suppose to eat in a bowl. Thank you for suggesting that brand when I was looking for pellets. It has obviously worked out great.

 

[Maureen Las]

I actually used organic rabbit for my dental rabbit Beau as he has the potential for so many issues because he doesn't eat hay.

I actually think that this is probably an excellent pellet but it won't go anywhere fast until they lower the price of it a little;

When you have time you may want to read the threads by Bangbangs as she is dealing with sludge and stasis issues and you are one of our bladder sludge resource experts now

 

[Amy27]

I think this is a great pellet too but am afraid that I may soon find that the pet store I go to stops carrying it. There are never any bags missing when I go. I have only found 2 chains that carry it and one is a local chain store.

When you used the pellets for Beau did you notice any difference after changing?

I missed that thread with Bangband. Thanks for pointing it out to me. I posted some info on there.

 

[myheart]

Amy, I am so glad that you are having such great results with Chase and the new pellets!! Congrats on beating all of the odds and, hopefully, Chase being stone-free for the rest of her life. :biggrin2:

myheart

 

[Maureen Las]

Beau really likes the pellets... I mixed itwith criitical care to make a gruel for him.
he doesn't have internal issues but does have an eye and dental issues.

I changed him back to BBT because I did not want to pay for the Organic Rabbit.
If I had a rabbit with your kind of issues or anything internal I would get Organic Rabbit despite the cost.