Chase - UPDATED 5/22/10

[Maureen Las]

You are right... many genetic problems do not show up at birth
For ex. the rabbit that I just wrote about in the post on kathy's book had normall teeth until he was 2yrs old; he ate greens , hay and everything was fine until he was 2.5 yrs old.
he was a petstore bunny (before my affiliation with the shelter) and he is also a holland lop.
I think that you could predict if you knew the problems of the parents but many of us don't get from breeders
If I did buy from a breeder I would definitely want to see both parents.

 

[Maureen Las]

I am also interested in the genetics of rabbit problems ; because of Beau's teeth I am very frightened of teeth problems . If a person had 2 like Beau it would be diffficult to even begin to pay for the care.
sometimes I just look at my 7 rabbits and wonder what lies ahead for them....



And then it would be interesting to know what is normal old age problems for rabbits... for ex if a rabbit is elderly and developed bladder problems is that considered an older bunny problem or is that a genetic problems.

Seem to me that organs would begin to fail in old age just like with humans and everything else living

 

[naturestee]

Stuff like Type 2 diabetes, fibromyalgia, and schizophrenia (off the top of my head) generally don't occur until later than life but have a genetic component. Maybe there's a problem in rabbits that causes the calcium issues that doesn't show up till later. There's still a ton we don't know.

I'm really glad things are finally looking up for you and Chase!

 

[Amy27]

Both of my buns came from pet stores also. That was when I thought they were just cute little rabbits that sat in a cage and was happy with it. Then I fell in love with them and they let me know what really makes them happy lol.

It would be really interesting to see if someone had a rabbit with a genetic health problem if the parents had that same problem.

angieluv, I understand you looking at your rabbits and wondering what lies ahead for them. I would imagine and hope in the future maybe there would be some type of genetic testing for animals. I don't think I could imagine how much that would cost though.

I'll try to remember to ask my vet what she considers old age for a rabbit next time I go. That is a good question. Is a normal life span of a rabbit about 10 years? If that is correct then middle age would be 5 years so maybe 7-8 is considered old age when they might have more health problems?

naturestee, I agree that if calcium issues are genetic that they could really show up at any point in a rabbits life. It is kind of scary to have a rabbit for several years and the rabbit is very healthy and then to have it get sick and have something that they will have to deal with the rest of their life. But I guess it is that way with any animal or human.

 

[tonyshuman]

A lot of the genetic diseases develop at a specific time. Really obvious genetic diseases, like defects in development, show up right when the individual is born or while they're still growing, which is when they're very young. Naturestee mentioned schizophrenia, which has a strong genetic component, and it often manifests in the early 20s, since that's the time that the brain becomes fully mature. Breast cancer can have a strong genetic link, and typically develops mid to late life, but not everyone that carries the gene will develop it.

The thing here is that every disease is an interplay between the genes that the individual carries, and the environment they live in. The environment can dictate when a disease will show up and if it will show up at all. Frequently, they'll crop up when the organ system involved is changing, like in the early 20s for schizophrenia, and reproductive age-menopause for breast cancer. I imagine that Chase has developed this calcium metabolism thing because she's not a spring chicken anymore. I bet she had been metabolizing calcium differently for a long time, but after years of stress on her kidneys it's finally started to show in their ability to function so well. It's not something you could have known about, since it was not affecting her in a way you could see.

I didn't realize you have had her for so long! She is a special girl, and I'm sure with continued good care she will be with you for years to come.

 

[myheart]

Amy27 wrote:

angieluv, one thing that gets me with the genetic factor is what makes it happen at a certain point. Let me try to explain that better. Chase is about 5, I have had her since she was about 6 months old. She has never had any bladder issues until the last 5 months. So even if it is genetics you wouldn't know if your bun has it, right? It could come into play years after you have them. I am not sure that is right but just the way I understood when I asked my vet why Chase didn't have this problem from the beginning if it was genetics. I think it is great you are doing what you are doing with Rudy because how would you know if he has the genetics for it.

I probably shouldn't even go there because there are so many genetic problems and we can never know if our rabbits carry them. It would be nice to know that by this age of a rabbit they would have had problems if they had a genetic problem for any disease. But I guess it could just show up anytime in there life.

I hope I haven't made you or anyone else paranoid about it I just find it interesting and find other peoples thoughts on it interesting. I try to compare it to humans in the sense that you can be born with the genes for diabetes but that doesn't mean you develop diabetes as a baby. But there are several disease that are gentic that show at birth. Is there an age your bunny becomes safe from getting a disease or problem that is genetic?

:yeahthat: I agree with all of what you said Amy. Luna is about five or six years old with her first Gotchya Day coming up at the end of the month. I think she is closer to six or seven because she is turning grey already. Anyhow, I say the same thing.... Why now? Her calcium/kidney problem should have shown up at a much younger age so that it could have been managed much better. I would have liked to have caught this early enough to have been able to prevent so much damagefrom the stones.

All I am saying, is that with knowledge of such genetic problems, management of the situation could be started early enough to delay major damage to vital organs for some time. Luna has blossomed into a wonderful personality! She is so funny and naughty now that I feel I am being cheated out of giving her the best life she could potentially have. I can't help but look at her and marvel at her resilience, but I cry in my heart knowing that any day she could go into renal failure and I would lose my baby-girl.

All I wanted to do was to make Luna and Patrick happy for the last years of their lives together. I know Luna is better off with me than at her former home prior to her surrender to the shelter. But I can't help feeling that I have also failed her because I didn't catch the symptoms early enough to delay such a build-up of stones in her kidneys.

Sorry to have high-jacked your thread, but I guess we are thinking along the same lines. Has Chase gone to see a homeopathic doctor yet? Any results if she did go?

As always, prayers and hugs to you, Chase, and Little Bunny,

myheart

 

[myheart]

Just wondering how Chase and Little Bunny are doing. Has Chase gone to see a homeopathic doctor yet? I am very curious to find out how thatwent....

myheart

 

[Amy27]

I wanted to answer your post before this one first. You really shouldn't feel like you failed Luna. Imagine if you hadn't taken her. Where would she be? I bet those owners would not do all that you are doing to keep her healthy. May be she came to you when she did because she needed someone who would love her and take care of her during the hard times. She needed more then an owner. She needed a partner to help her fight this and she found that in you.

Rabbits are so good at hiding illnesses. I wouldn't beat yourself up about not catching Luna's symptoms first. The most important thing is as soon as you saw a problem you took her to the vet and have been doing everything you can for her. Chase went to the vet for her yearly check like 4-6 weeks before she had her first surgery to remove the largest stone. The vet didn't catch it.

Chase is loving life without sub q's everyday. The Little Bunny is still crabby and mean. I can't wait till I can get them bonded again. The Little Bunny was never like this when they were bonded.

I am not sure what I am doing with the homeopathic vet. Part of me is thinking what the vet is doing is working. Why put Chase through more vet appointments and possibly procedures. I would be sure if what the homeopathic vet is doing is actually doing anything for Chase since it seems like the Lasix and Sub Q's are working really well. I am going to see what happens at Chase's appointment on friday. I am kind of taking it day by day. If Chase is still doing good on friday I will probably wait. If the calcium has started to build back up I will probably take her. If I do take her I will make sure to let you know how it goes.

ETA: I was reading your last post on Luna and I wondered if what Chase is on would help Luna. Chase is taking Lasix and it has helped more then just giving sub q's everyday or every other day. The changes I have seen in Chase is that she is urinating a lot so it is really flushing her bladder and kidney's. Once they dropped the sub q's from everyday to every 3rd day her drinking has gone up a lot. In a 2 week period the Lasix cleared Chase's bladder of almost all the calcium. I didn't think about it with Luna before until you mentioned she passed some stones. I didn't realize before her stones were small enough to pass. I wonder if that would help her pass more stones faster. The bad thing with Lasix is you have to watch for dehydration and they don't really know the long term side effects. It is used in rabbits with heart failure to remove the water around the heart. Those rabbits don't usually live that long so they are not sure how it will effect a rabbit long term. That is what my vet said anyway. Just an idea.

ETA again: I was just thinking. I think Lasix can make kidney function worse so may be it wouldn't be good for Luna since she runs the risk of kidney failure.

 

[myheart]

Thanks for the thoughts Amy. You are right, Luna may not even be here if she were with her former owner, or some one not willing to make an effort to make her comfortable. I am not sure if Lasix could help Luna's condition, but I will still bring it up to the vet when we go back in a few weeks.

Luna is doing quite well for her condition. Her honking has diminished quite a bit, so I think that passing the stones must have taken close to a week, according to her honking-scale. I know that I am going to have to be more vigilant about what she eats. I have a feeling she was sneaking munchies from Patrick's cage while I was gone to work. So, I am going to supervise Patrick's foods when he eats to make sure things get pulled before Luna has a chance to clean up Patch's left-overs.

I am not going to give up hope for clean(er) kidneys. If there were that many stones that passed completely out, I believe more could pass as well. I will be saying more healing prayers for her, and am in the process of making my home less stressful for all of us.

Keep us all posted on Chases progress. I do hope you are able get your bunners bonded again. I am sure that would be less stress for all if they could be cuddly again.

myheart

 

[Amy27]

Chase went back to the vet today. This is what her discharge instructions says: Normal bladder. No evidence of calcium deposits.

I can't believe it. I really feel like it is a miracle. The calcium that was in the bladder 2 weeks ago that they thought was attaching to the scar is even gone. The vet was even blown away. She never thought that would go away.

Lasix has really saved Chase's life. The vet did say taking the Lasix long term could cause problems down the road. But I will deal with it when I get to that point. She will get blood work every month to watch what the Lasix is doing to her body.

I really thought I would have to put Chase to sleep. As did both vets. When I got good news 2 weeks ago I was happy but was still very hesitant to get too happy. Now I really feel like I will have along time to spend with her. I can relax and know that I still have time with her.

She only has to get the sub q's once a week now. I can't tell you how much that will help with my pocket book. Chase seems so much happier on the days she doesn't get the sub q's. The vet thinks we might even be able to stop the sub q's and just keep her on the Lasix. If her bladder is still good in 2 weeks we will try it.

I can never thank you all enough, for all your support, advice and information. There have been so many things you guys have suggested that I have used. I think I take information to the vet everytime I go that I have gotten from tyou guys. I really believe without the support and help I received from this site I would have listened to the vets when they said there isn't much I could do. You guys gave me the strength to fight for Chase and it has paid off. I will never be able to show/tell you guys how much that means to me or Chase. She has been given the chance for a longer better life because of it. Thank you so much.

 

[BethM]

Oh, Amy! This is wonderful news! I am so happy for you and Chase both, and I'm sure even Little Bunny will be feeling the better energies at home!

:bunny24

 

[Amy27]

Thank you Beth and thank you for responding to my posts through this tough time. I am going to start rebonding the bunnies, as soon as I figure out how. I think things will be a lot happier around here once they are back together.

 

[NorthernAutumn]

[align=center]:shock2:

[/align][align=center]YAY WHOO-HOO!!! AWESOME!!! MIRACULOUS!!!!

:great::great::great::great::great::great:
arty:arty:arty:arty:
:woohoo:woohoo:woohoo:woohoo:woohoo
[/align]

Amy, you have been such a trooper through these past months! Whadda bunny mom! You never gave up! Success is yours, and Chase's and Little Bunny's!

YOU BEAT IT!!!!

I can't tell you how happy I am for all of you!!!!!:highfive:


Autumn (who is delighted!)

 

[Amy27]

Thank you NorthernAutumn. You have been such a huge supporter for me and Chase. You have responded to every post I have made and always stayed active with the updates with Chase. Thank you so much.

 

[Maureen Las]

Amy

I couldn't be happier for you and Chase. This could seem like a miracle ; I am so very happy foryou ..you deserve it after all you've been through.

 

[myheart]

Amy, I don't think I have enough words to say how happy I am for you and Chase. You both beat the odds on this one...

Congratulations!!!! :biggrin2::bunnydance:inkelepht:inkbouce::happyrabbit::yahoo::clapping:

myheart

 

[tonyshuman]

WOO-HOO is right!!!

Such great care, and this is such a great story and example!

I've learned so much in this post, and I'm so so so glad she's back to (almost) normal!

Now to get her and Little Bunny to get along again.

But for now,
:bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance:

 

[Amy27]

Thanks guys. tonyshuman, I have learned a ton through this also. I am glad other people have. Alot of people came on here and gave some great information and I really appreciate that.

I do have another question, of course lol. I didn't want to start a new thread and I looked in the library but does hot ears mean anything bad? I feel like I am becoming a hypocondriac (sp?) with Chase. I am constantly wondering why she is sitting like this, why she is taking to long to eat, why her skin seems to sink in between her shoulder blades and now tonight the new one is why are her ears hot. I don't know if any of them are valid concerns. I really don't think they are. She is eating and going to the bathroom fine. Her ears being hot is kind of worrying me because I know it isn't my eyes and head playing tricks on me. They feel warmer then they usually are. I need to just relax and enjoy that she is better. She goes to the vet in one more week, was just there a week ago. Nothing life threatening is going to happen in a 2 week span, right? Ugh I should be enjoying this and being happy but instead I am worrying, maybe it will just take me sometime to know she is really going to be ok.

 

[Maureen Las]

It is strange that you should post this as it is something that has been in my mind and also a discussion on etherbun the past week
taking a rabbit's temperature

First of all I am ashamed to say that I have never taken my own rabbits temps but we don't often discuss it on this forum.
I think that Chase's ears being warm is significant and if you are like me you haven't taken a temp . Right ?
I would guess that Chase has a fever and that you should take her to the vet tomorrow if you can
When Babette had her severe upper respiratory infection she would feel hot as you described
is Chase still getting sub q's as she sounds dehydrated
I may be able to tell you how to take a rectal temp with a digital thermometer if you want to try but it depends on how comfortable you are doing it.
I think that you are very observant

 

[Maureen Las]

Geez I hope that you come back on tonight
you need an infant rectal plastic digital thermometer well lubricated (vaseline)
here is a dana Krempels article on how to do this

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/sickbun.html