Worried for my bunny boy (RIP)

[MagnoliaDee]

Thanks again. I took him off the dryer a bit ago, and found him munching on the hay in the crate. Seems the sub q fluids have made him feel a tad bit better.

In all honesty I have been neglectful of giving the kids their greens lately... so maybe I shouldn't give him too many now.

 

[MagnoliaDee]

Boy he gave me a strugle tonight. Just did not want his critical care... and was struggling with me like crazy. I amgrateful that he has this kind of energy, but common. I did manage to get him to eat about 4-5 cc... but I'm supposed to get 8 into him. He is drinking water from a bowl tonight... prayers that that continues into the future. Oh, and even tho he didn't want any more critical care, he still wanted a bit of pumpkin... rawr!

I'm assuming that I'm supposed to be feeding around the clock every 6 hours... right?

His ear is really bothering him a tonne... he's shaking his head a lot. I sure hope those cultures come back soon, so we can get him on a med that will start working to fix it.

 

[Pipp]

If he's eating and drinking a little on his own, and really doesn't want the CC, I wouldn't worry about giving him the full amount.

I'd monitor how much he's eating on his own and not worry too much about the 'round the clock' feedings unless you're seeing the poops get smaller or stop again.


sas :bunnydance:

 

[Flashy]

I just wanted to drop in and say you're doing a great job. He's a very lucky bunny to have someone fight for him like this.

x

 

[MagnoliaDee]

Thanks... I'll do everything I can for him. He's such a sweet little guy.

I thought of another question... the critical care package and my vet also says to massage after feeding. Jacub sometimes prefers it if I massage while I'm feeding. Is there any problem with this?

 

[MagnoliaDee]

Well I called Pet-Smart this morning and they don't sell the Bene-Bac here where I am in Canada. So I called another pet store which carries premium foods, and they have a powder probiotic, but it's not Bene-Bac. Hopefully that will be just as good.

 

[MagnoliaDee]

So I was able to get my hands on this. It's Eagle Pack Holistic Solution for cats & dogs... powder form. It has lactobacillus Acidolphilus, Digestive Enzymes & Inulin - A fiber. Will this be o'kay? And how much do I give?

Here's the info on the label

Lactic Acid Bacteria - 110 million CFU/g
Bacillus Microorganisims - 1.1 million CFU/g
Protease, Cellulose and Amylase - 50 million CFU per 1/4 tsp
Protease (from Aspergillus oryzoe & Aspergillus Niger)
Cellulose (from Aspergillus oryzoe & Aspergillus Niger)
Amylase (from Aspergillus niger & Aspergillus Oryzoe)
Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO.

 

[tonyshuman]

That probiotic sounds good, I think. It's not the same ingredients as Bene-Bac, but it has the lactobacillis, which is an important part--it helps get the gut pH back into the acidic range, which is important for the resident bacteria to live well. We've had members in southeast Asia use human probiotics (I forget right now what they contained)--they were gel caps that they cut open and sprinkled on the food. The stuff you found sounds better than that, but I wanted to mention that it worked fine as well, so I think your stuff will work better. The only thing that's not ok as a probiotic (although some breeders will disagree, as it's a common "folk" remedy) is yogurt. The lactose in yogurt can't be digested by rabbits.

I agree with Pipp about the critical care--if he won't take it, but he'll eat the pumpkin, don't worry about giving him the whole amount. It seems strange that you'd have to get up in the middle of the night to give him his food (every 6 hrs, even all night?), but it's up to you. As long as things are moving through, he'll be ok. Right now it's just a waiting game until you get the culture results back anyway, so hopefully you'll only have to put up with this difficult stuff for a few more days. You're doing great!

 

[MagnoliaDee]

Clair I had read that not to give milk based probiotics... so I was at a loss as to what was available for the buns lol... since I give the dogs yogurt or cottage cheese daily for their gut health. But I sure am glad that I picked them up, b/c tonight's meal I sprinkled some on and holy cow... what normally took 1-1.5 hours to get his food in only took about 15-20 mins. He was litterally lapping it up, and I didn't add a tonne either, just a sprinkle. I sure hope it helps his tummy too!

I have a couple questions remaining...

1) I have been giving him tummy massages "while" I feed him, inbetween bites. Is this o'kay? It really relaxes him and keeps him happy. I ask b/c per the vet and the critical care directions it says to massage "after" feeding.

2) How much massaging does he need? Like how long? Like I said I've been doing it while I feed him... every time I feed him, is that enough?

I'm not sure what the heck is taking soo long with the culture... it was started last friday! I sure hope I hear something tomorrow... I'm worried about the infection being soo close to his brain. When she calls about which antibiotic to administer I'll mention then that I want to not give the sulfa anymore if she mentions it in conjunction with the new med. Other than that he is drinking some water on his own, and I'm giving him a syringe or two during feeding as well... with the occassional pedialite syringe also. Haven't seen much hay action tonight... but I'll give him a fresh batch after I vaccuum their room and see if he goes for it.

Thanks so much to everyone for talking me thru this difficult time! I very much appreciate your routing for Jacub!

 

[MagnoliaDee]

oh yeah... I knew there was another coupleq's I had.

3) If he lays with his legs all out behind him, like a bunny flop 'cept he can't fully flop right now with his balance off... does this mean he's comfortable? Or can it still mean he's in pain and pressing his belly into the ground. I *think* a pain in the belly would have him sitting like a chicken... like a tight ball, with his belly pressed against the floor... not all sprawled out... right?

4) For those of you who have had to force feed... have you ever had a bunny purr while feeding? Jacub's been doing this, and I again I think it means he's contented... getting his belly rubbed, etc. But could it also indicate pain?

Thanks again for your opinions!!

 

[tonyshuman]

I'm sure massaging during feeding is fine. After, I'd say just a few minutes, maybe 5-10? The flop like that sounds like he's pretty comfy, and I agree that he'd be sitting like a chicken or with his front legs out and back legs under, belly pressed to the floor. It sounds like he's doing a froggy leg flop, which is pretty common. My guys do that with the legs behind him, but together and to the side instead of straight back. I haven't force fed before, but it could be from the massage. A tooth grind due to pain is quite different from a tooth purr, so you'd know the difference. Sounds like you're being a great nurse to Jacub!

 

[MagnoliaDee]

Thanks Clair... I really thought he looked, and seemed, content, but I didn't want to overlook anything.

So this morning he didn't want any critical care... just would not have it for nothing! That's got me a bit worried. :nerves1But he did eat a few of his rabbit pellets for the first time in days. Maybe 10? And he had some pumpkin also. I found lots of poops around him, and he's drinking water from his bowl (I also got a syringe of water into him). Also, last night after feeding him he was eating some hay. So I'm hopefull that he was just full from hay. Unfortunately I can't be with him now until after lunch again... hopefully he'll be hungry by then.

When do you stop force feeding... when they show interest in their pellets again, or only once they eat a full meal of pellets??

He didn't want any massages this morning either... but he got a really good one last night... again, fingers crossed that he will be o'kay to lunch, and that he allows (trust me I try my best to force it, but he is strong willed at time) me to feed and massage him then.

I took a couple pics and vids last night...

Showing his tilt

Showing him all stretched out after his meal and massage

Vid of him cleaning and drinking and generally nosing around his space
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaOMIyQeINM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaOMIyQeINM[/ame]

Jacub and wife bun Lego, doting on him
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvPFOacUj3o&NR=1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvPFOacUj3o&NR=1[/ame]

 

[tonyshuman]

He looks pretty good, considering. No rolling or spinning, so that's good. What is that bald spot by his top ear? Was pus draining there?

He and Lego are so cute. Lego does look just like my Tony!

As for when to stop force-feeding, if they're eating at least enough on their own to keep poop going, I'd say stop. You can put it in a dish and see if he'll eat it out of a dish, as well as offering the pellets etc. It does sound like he's gradually accepting new food, so that's definitely the right direction to be headed! It can take quite a while to recover completely from a total stasis event. The hay eating is WONDERFUL! So glad to hear that. Fingers crossed that you get the culture results soon. He's doing so much better!

 

[MagnoliaDee]

Clair... thanks soo much for coming back to this thread!! I'm not sure what the bald spot is on his one ear is from... it seems to be covering in hair the past few days. I didn't notice it before this event as his ear is usually flopping down... but with his tilt, now it's exposed. But it's not from pus, b/c it's the other ear that has the infection. She said the top ear is clean.

As soon as I came here and saw your profile pic I thought the same thing... they could be twins!

Thanks for your thoughts on when to stop the forced feeding. Today at lunch I put the food in the syringe, and he basically lapped it off the end of the syringe, like as if it was a water bottle. With the probiotics in there, he seems to like it a lot better... so long as he's not full. I'm hoping that he continues to accept more and more pellets. And I'm thrilled that he's eating at least some hay... saw him munching on some again about an hour ago! I didn't realize that recovery from stasis can take some time... I was getting worried that it's taking too long... so you've eased some worry for me there. Thanks!! And thanks for the fingers crossed... I am cleaning the house, doing anything I can, so help pass the time. I sure hope it's back by tomorrow!!!

 

[tonyshuman]

Yeah, i was confused about the bald spot, because the infection usually is in the down ear, so pus leaking onto the top ear would be weird. It may have been a strange molt or something.

 

[MagnoliaDee]

I'm on the phone right now with the vet. The results are in and she wants to put him on Baytril. Both the antibiotic and an ear solution. But she wants to clean the ear before doing the solution. Does all this sound good?

 

[MagnoliaDee]

I just reread above, esp. what Randy wrote, and I'm pretty discouraged now. Baytril is ineffective? This is what she wants to put him on. She said he has pasturella and one other thing, and that it's suseptable to Baytril (or however that should be said). He took most of his food at lunch very well... but tonight's meal is a no go. I can feel his spine and rib bones now. I'm just not doing good enough... I'm pretty sure I'm failing him. I'm really worried.

 

[tonyshuman]

Ummm... Not really. Baytril is a broad-spectrum antibiotic, and it's really not strong enough to take care of an ear infection, especially if given orally. That's strange, Baytril is usually given only when the vet can't figure out what the bacteria are. I also am not sure about cleaning ears when they're infected. I hope someone more experienced comes on. I only know that the drugs most commonly used to treat ear infections are injectible penicillin G procaine/benzathine, chloramphenicol, azithromyacin, and convenia. Baytril isn't as strong as these drugs, especially when given orally.

 

[MagnoliaDee]

I'm soo lost. I just don't know what to do. I'm already taking him to the best vet available. I feel like I'm just killing him slowly.

 

[aurora369]

I would print off some articles about how to effectively treat an ear infection with penicillin injections. Bring the article to the vet and request to try that treatment protocol. Request to be taught how to administer sub-q injections at home (not too hard once your taught how) and to be provided with enough drugs to do a full treatment.

Do you feel that your vet is open to different options? Some vets react well to ideas from owners who have done research, and others not so much. Hopefully yours will be open to suggestions.

--Dawn