Something is possible happening ?

[Popsicles]

I know it can be possibel to remove the affected uterus, but I would be worried that it has been there so long that it is likely to have spread, so the operation would be a lot to go through for it not to help. I would also worry that she is not very well, quite fragile and off her food etc anyway, so how would she fare recovering from anaesthesia?
What does your vet think?

 

[Thumperina]

the vet is ready to give it a try, he has $$$ in his eyes, and he has nothing to loose (but gain $$$). I am pretty sure that I would have to sign a paper that in case she dies, it will be considered inevitable and I still have to pay in full, right?

 

[Popsicles]

Just to be clear, Vets don’t make as much money out of procedures as you think - once the price of anaesthetic equipment and drugs is worked out they really don’t earn that much. So I wouldn’t worry so much that they are just money grabbing - most in my profession join to improve animal welfare, not to make money. And most are also very sad to lose their patients, so they won’t take unnecessary risks.
You will have to sign a paper stating that you acknowledge the risks involved, which should be fully explained to you beforehand. You will still have to pay in full, unless the death is due to veterinary negligence (e.g. making a terrible mistake), but if it is due to an acknowledged risk infortunately you will still have to pay.
(This is in the UK - I assume the process is the same/similar in the US)

 

[Bunny gurl]

I don't want to interrupt your conversation first off let me tell you how truly saddened and sorry I am for you this is one of the hardest things to deal with when you have bunnies dogs cats etc have so much medical treatment and procedures to help them. I just wanted to try to you asking anyone with experience with buns and C yes unfortunately I have had to do this before twice 2 of my home grown babies sisters actually both had it and I am not sure what you want to know about but I am gonna tell you if I had to do it again I would definitely let them go earlier then I did I did it thinking it was for them but thinking back by this point how much quality is left I believe none of they can't enjoy grass or the free time playing no more binkys or coming hopping to their human looking for head scratches then its time to let her go I know it hurts and I held on hoping every day we would wake up and a miracle they recovered overnight but they didn't and they wouldn't have I know we do it with good intentions but they are not even thriving now and they can't enjoy anything that they once had. She is in pain and she would not be upset if you set her free to hop and binky over rainbow bridge she knows you did everything and more for her and she is grateful but she would Thank you if now you did 1 last thing and set her free of her pain she can't escape it unless you help her she will just suffer till her body can't go on. She will be free again to play and eat all the lush green grass she can and she will never forget what a great mom she has down here and will be waiting to see you someday up there believe me it is incredibly freaking hard to do but she says it's ok and she has had enough pain.
I laid both my girls to rest together the same day and they looked so peaceful as they drifted.away together I know now I did the right thing for them as I sit here typing this sobbing remembering how hard it was you are strong you have.already shown it by doing what you have done for her till now just one.more thing to be strong for her and all of us rabbit lovers are.here for you and are behind.you through it.... I'm sorry about.going on but people dont realize.sometimes how difficult it is to make that step and I know that having someone else behind.you with a decision like this makes it a little easier to face.
Look her in the eyes and she will tell you it time and its.ok.

 

[Bunny gurl]

Again I am sorry to intrude on your conversation but I wanted you.to know you.are not alone.

 

[Popsicles]

I don’t think you’re intruding at all and I complete relate with what you’re saying, you’ve made some really good points and you are very right that prolonging life is not always the best option. I’m sorry about your own buns too <3

 

[Thumperina]

I think I need to increase her sub q fluids intake, since she is not eating veggies or very little. Could someone tell me how much of fluids it's safe to give? I find some cecatropes of her and they are small and dry. I m giving her 50 ml twice a day and I think she needs more hydration
Is it safe to treat her with Revolution in her state? they still go out when not very hot, it's useful for her since she can eat grass. it's been almost a month since they were treated. I at least don't see any ticks on them

 

[Thumperina]

Bunny girl thank you. Right now, I am trying to see if we could possibly do more diagnostics to see if a surgery could be an option.

 

[Thumperina]

it's hard when we don't know vets very well. yesterday I spent 2 hours at the vet clinic that has a vet that sees bunnies, and they have an ultrasound, to just find out that the vet that is responsible for ultrasound is a different one (the one who doesn't "see" bunnies) and she said she hasn't done an ultrasound on a single rabbit ! good thing I talked to them before I brought my poor girl and paid them !

 

[Thumperina]

Right now everything is pending because my kiddo is departing to camp in a couple of days. We are busy buying some stuff, washing, packing, and so on. I can't make any important decisions until this event is out of the way.
I've lost Thumperina's daughter FooFoo last November. She seemed to be the healthiest out of all, I have never had any problems with her. I still don't know what it was, she just stopped eating and I didn't catch it early enough since they were spending a lot of time in the yard (where it's hard to monitor poop) and are fed all together (hard to monitor who is eating, who isn't). When I realized she wasn't well, and was going to take her to a vet, it was too late - she passed overnight. It could have been cancer or something else (but obviously she passed from stasis)
Would just stop force-feeding Thumperina be too cruel? of course, I would never stop giving her pain medication.

Rabbits on my avatar are not my remaining alive Thumperina and Paul but they look exactly the same: she is fawn, he is broken white. I don't know why I think I should mention it.

 

[doodlebugger]

I'm so sorry you are going through this! Our little Brie was really sick a while back, and we were told she had a tumor in her uterus, and that the very rabbit savvy vet could try to remove it with surgery, but that once she got in there, if she determined it was too severe, she would just put her to sleep. The charges would cover whatever anesthesia and other expenses they incurred up to that point. However, when she got in there, she had pyometra which is a type of infection in the uterus. We felt really bad that we didn't have her spayed early on after hearing this. However, she was overweight and our vet was concerned with doing the surgery until we could get her weight down. What we didn't know, was that part of the reason she was so heavy and bloated was because of this. We should have had her spayed really early on when we first got her and we could have spared us all the problems. Thankfully in our case, our Brie's uterus had contained everything and there was no sign of anything else when the tests came back. She did go through a bout of pneumonia not long after, but she is doing very well these days.

In my opinion, if you want to let her go, it is better to have the vet put her to sleep. Don't let her starve to death. And if you cannot deal with her health issues, don't have the time or money to invest in her care, or you don't want to put her to sleep, consider contacting a rescue in your state or a nearby state. Some rescues will have more resources to take in rabbits like this and give them medical care. Our vet works with a rescue who would do this if an owner wanted to surrender their rabbit for any of those reasons.

Have you checked to see if there are any rabbit savvy vets or exotic vets that are within a reasonable drive from you? I wouldn't treat her with Revolution if she is that sick, but that's just my opinion, and I would definitely ask a vet's opinion over mine. How hot is it getting there? I know we are going to be near 100 over the weekend. I would not even consider keeping a rabbit outdoors if it's over 80 and humid. Even if you put a fan on them, frozen water bottles, etc., they can get dehydrated way too fast.

Again, I'm so sorry you are going through this, but consider putting her to sleep if you feel like she is not getting better and you don't want to put her through surgery. No need for her to suffer. Before I considered that, I would try hard to find a rabbit savvy vet to get better answers, and then consider a rabbit rescue. Everyone has to do what they feel is right though, and what I think could be different from what other people think.

 

[Popsicles]

It’s reallt hard that you gave this going on on top of everything else, I really feel for you. And finding a good rabbit vet can be really hard, especially in some areas!
re fluids: we are taught at uni that basic fluid intake should be 50ml/kg/day, I can’t remember how much she weighs? But could potentially give more?
Re Vets: I’m confused as to why the rabbit vet cant ultrasound - that is a day one competence skill. And the “ultrasound vet” should be able to recognise and ultrasound a uterus in a rabbit - abdominal anatomy is much the same as a dog or cat apart from the addition of the caecum.
Re stopping feeding: I agree with doodle bigger that if you decide that you don’t wish to prolong her life anymore it would be much kinder to have a vet put her to sleep than let her starve and suffer. Of course, thats a personal choice that only you can make.
Bless you I do really feel for you at this time and find myself thinking about Thumperina and Paul often

 

[Thumperina]

thank you all.
I have been thinking about what Bunny girl said. I think I should be able to do this last favor to her.. if I am not late. Today I stopped at the vet who saw her last time and it's a short drive, to ask about PTS (for details). I also read more about it.
However, tomorrow I take my kiddo to camp in the morning 3 hours each way (for me). there is no way to avoid it.
Answering about them being outside: the reason why I take them out, weather permitting, is because it is their usual habitat, and since she doesn't eat anything indoors, grass outdoors is her only food for the day (except some critical care). Yes, its real hot here and their only time outside is from 6 to 9am when it's bearable. When inside, she sits like she doesn't even recognize anything. This morning, outside, I saw her eyes brightened up for awhile. I saw her eating some grass.
However, I have a feeling I can be late to give her this last favor. Today she doesn't tolerate me do anything with her. She jumps down from our treating station, even though its rather high from the floor, and then runs around like crazy for some time. Foofoo was running like this just before she passed. I wasn't able to give her evening fluids. I gave her metacam though but I don't think it helps with her pain. I fed her little critical care earlier but not this evening.
we need prayers.

 

[Thumperina]

Today I contacted another "bunny" vet that was recommended by somebody. I found her on facebook and sent her a message. I asked if she dealt with cancer in rabbits and if she had any experience with surgeries to remove affected tissues. this is what she replied
"I am sorry to hear about your bunny. I have surgically explored bunnies to see if a tumor was removable before but so far my experience is that the masses tend to be wrapped around too many critical structures for it to be feasible. The chances of success are lower because of her doing poorly now. I’m afraid I cannot offer you much hope and certainly no guarantees improvement. We are not able to offer in home euthanasia at this time unfortunately. I’m very sorry"

 

[Popsicles]

I’m sorry to hear that she is fighting the medication etc, we can hope that it is because she is strong rather than the end.
That is sad that the vet won’t be able to help you, but I agree that she is probably too unwell at the moment to go under anaesthesia, I said the same a few messages ago. I would think the cancer has been there too long now for it to really help her.
You’re doing all the right things and I appreciate you’re trying so hard to help her - she will appreciate it too. I have my fingers crossed for you

 

[Thumperina]

My friends, my sweet Thumperina crossed the Rainbow bridge to be with her husband Snowball and her daugher FooFoo.
Last night I didn't have much sleep because of all the hassle finishing packing, taking care of the sick pet and so on; I sleep in the same large room where my buns are housed while its been hot. In the early morning I saw that she's been sitting by my bed all this time. We got up very early, I had to drive my kiddo to another city 3 hours away so that she could catch her flight. The trip took my much longer than just 6 hours with traffic, going inside the airport and trying to fix a problem when I didn't pay while exiting toll road because I misunderstood some signs. My husband was taking care of the pets this morning. I also have cockatiel birds.
All this time on the way back I was thinking that I needed to PTS my girl. By the time I got back home, I was rather exhausted or maybe a chicken inside of me spoke up... I was just happy to see all my pets at home when I got back at about 3pm. The vet closes at 6... I thought it was too much for one day to handle, then about 4ish the kiddo wanted to communicate when she arrived to a several million city airport and needed assistance with getting her luggage and finding her way there. Closer to 6pm, I understood that I can't postpone Thumperina too long. Not over the weekend. I gave them a call and made arrangements that we drop in tomorrow on Saturday during their working hours to ease her pain.
But it happened faster than I helped her. Her body just wasn't able to carry on any longer.
I regret that too many excuses got in the way for me to give her final favor to ease her pain... But I also had to be there for my human kiddo.
Not sure how Paul will carry on... I put her body next to him so that he can say good bye. For how long should I leave her there?
Good bye my sweet Thumperina. Binky free and no more pain.

 

[Thumperina]

I just checked on Paul. thankfully, he didn't move away from her body. He is next to her. I don't think he is grooming her but he is still there, with her. What is a right thing - to remove her body after how long?

 

[Popsicles]

Oh I am so sorry for you, even when we know it’s coming it doesn’t make it any easier sometimes it’s nicer to know they made the choice to let go, and she was on pain medication etc so she probably just fell asleep.
I’m not too sure about how long to leave her with Paul, once he moves away from her and has closure I suppose? And keep an eye on him a while after, give him lots of cuddles and fuss.
Binky free thunperina <3

 

[Thumperina]

thank you Popsicles
No she didn't just fall asleep. Death is always the hardest event of the life. The main struggle. Every time when I read "died instantly", I think "how lucky", even though it still leaves people devastated
I was thinking before she was gone if there are stronger pain meds that could be given. but of course, if there is a need in narcotics, then why would such animal need to stay alive...its easier to end suffering, but I failed to do it. I wasn't even home when it happened. I went to the grocery store, stupidly thinking that if I get new good smelling veggies, she would eat some.
I was wondering how ptc goes.. are they trying to escape, being anxious, do they need to be restrained. I have a feeling my girl wouldn't just surrender. I think she would give a fight and it would be very hard.
another thing I was thinking about - there is pts option for pets with cancer but no option for people with cancer.. (I think in rare cases they can approve euthanasia though)

 

[Thumperina]

She was ready to be gone a month ago when she declined after months of acting normal. But I just prolonged her suffering to the high extent by my "treatments". I know several of your were telling me about it.