RIP: Pippi is having a few problems

[cheryl]

Well Pippi has been going through a rough time lately,and Dr Lee and myself are trying to find outthe problem,he had a blood test today to see if he had kidney failure,but the test didn't show much,Dr Lee said that if he did have it he could be in the early stages of it,he also did another scan to check for bladder stones again,but that showed he didn't,but he said that he had one kidney bigger than the other,i'm not sure if that is bad or not,he also took another urine sample,which still shows that his urine is still very concentrated.

Pippi had a urine sample taken a few weeks ago,which showed his urine was very concentrated also,so that has stayed the same for some reason,i'm not sure why it would be so concentrated....pellets maybe?,he's had a wet bottom for the last couple weeks,the baytrill just didn't clear it up,now if it was cyctitis the baytril would have helped by now,so that's got Dr Lee thinking that there must be something else going on...but what we don't know.

Pippi also hasn't been able to hold his weight,he's very skinny and i can feel every little bone,but he's eating.

Dr Lee also mentioned that there also might be a possibility he could even have E Cunuculi...oh gosh that's all he needs

I'm fustrated..very fustrated.

Well Dr Lee prescribed a new medication for Pippi,he's now on Vibravet paste,i hope this will help with things.

It has been a very rough and expensive few months,from April until now i have spent over$1,600,but i'm desperate to find out what is wrong with him.

Cheryl

 

[ra7751]

Hi,

Couple of quick things. The best way to get a urine sample to get accurate results is a procedure called cystocentesis. It requires inserting a needle directly into the bladder. That way you get a pure sample. I see you mentioned Baytril. I rarely use that drug now due to resistant bacteria...especially pasteurella....but if you do use Baytril, it seems to be more effective as an injectable. And finally, have you noticed any sign of a neurological problem in a rear leg....maybe a very slight stumble or drag of a leg? It might be a very small event....but if so, it might be beneficial to titer for EC. And regardless..get this rabbit on sub-q fluids to support the renal system until a root cause if found.

Gotta run....PM me for more detailed info.

Randy

 

[cheryl]

Hi Randy

When Pippi had his urine sampled a few weeks ago,Dr Lee did insert a needle into his bladder,but when he was at the vet yesterday he was feeling his bladder,he did a wee on the table so he just syringed that up.

I cannot believe you mentioned about him dragging his leg and stumbling,i was just mentioning in my blog about Pippi that he's been dragging one of his back legs ocassionally,and he does slightly wobble,especially when he grooms himself,he sometimes loses his balance,i've even seen him fall over a few times

Do you think Vibravet is ok for him?

I really appreciate your help,thankyou

Oh gosh i'm really scared now

Cheryl

 

[ra7751]

Hi Cheryl,

I feel strongly that Pippi is in the infectious and contagious stage of an active EC infection. The concentrated urine and the small amount of paresis in the hind quarter and the unsteadiness are the first clinical signs. The urine is concentrated due to the spores of the infection shedding. It is contagious to other rabbits...and humans....and can remain viable in the environment outside a host for quite some time. I am pretty sure the urinalysis came up close to normal as far as bacteria....but it can't check for EC which is a protozoa. If you were to EC titer now, it would most likely return a high positive. I am not familiar with Vibravet but from the English versions of what I can find on it, it appears to be a broad spectrum antibiotic similar to our Baytril. While it may help with secondary infections, if it is EC, it would not be effective.

Since it appears from the information availablethat Pippi does have EC, I would ask the vet to start treatment immediately. The most favored treatment at this time is Fenbendazole (Panacur). It is basically a horse wormer. It's effectiveness is still up to debate. The most promising treatment right now is from the equine community. You may want to ask your vet to contact a large animal doctor and ask what the doctors in your area use to treat EPM in horses. The drug here is Marquis (Ponazuril) and is marketed by Bayer so I suspect it is available worldwide.

EC is a very challenging issue. I have special incentive to find a way to kill that little worm. I have dealt with it quite a bit. It is vitally important to support the renal system. EC is a wasting disease that takes it's time. Eventually, any rabbit suffering from this ailment will usually succumb to renal failure. The last three I have had did. If this is EC, with proper husbandry and support, Pippi may live a long and happy life. It is also possible that her immune system can "put the genie back into the bottle" and go into remission.

Talk with your doctor and let me know what you decide to do. I will be glad to share all of our info on dealing with EC with you and your doctor.

Randy

 

[cheryl]

Oh Randy,thankyou,thankyou,thankyou,i'm just so over the moon that i have someone to talk about this,i've cried and cried because i didn't know what was wrong,i cried even more when i read your first reply,i just really did not expect him to have EC.

You mentioned Panacur..Dr Lee also prescribed that yesterday as well,he has to have some now and then again in 10 days time

Another thing,Pippi has been drinking so much water,is that because of EC?

Thanks heaps for everything

Cheryl

 

[ra7751]

Hi Cheryl,

To go after EC, the panacur should be given EVERY DAY for at least 28 days and I have gone as far as 60 days consecutively.

The water drinking is a response to the kidney damage from the spores. They create scar tissue which inhibits the function of the kidneys. Let him drink all he wants. And get your doctor to teach you to administer sub-q fluids....you will need to know how soon.

TLC is vitally important. Work with Pippi as much as possible.

Randy

 

[cheryl]

Hi Randy

Ok,i will give Dr Lee a call today,hopefully he's at the surgery today,and i will tell him about what you have said about giving him the Panacur every day,i know i might sound stupid,but what will the Panacur actually do?

Cheryl

 

[ra7751]

The Panacur is actually a wormer used in many animals...primarily horses.... that can kill protozoa. The difficulty ina rabbit is to get the blood levels up enough to penetrate the blood/brain barrier. That is why you dose every day for long term.

 

[cheryl]

Ahh ok thanks,also i suppose this is why he's been looking tired?

Another thing,if this is actually EC which i'm very sure it is now,how long would he havehad to have it before the sign's start to appear?

Cheryl

 

[JimD]

I wish I could offer some help
...for now I'll "warm the bench" and send prayers.
ray:

~Jim

 

[cheryl]

Thankyou Jim,i really appreciate that,it really means a lot to me:hug:

 

[Bo B Bunny]

ra7751 wrote:

The Panacur is actually a wormer used in many animals...primarily horses.... that can kill protozoa. The difficulty ina rabbit is to get the blood levels up enough to penetrate the blood/brain barrier. That is why you dose every day for long term.

we use panacur for the horses..... we also use ivermectin for them and I have a tube for the bunnies incase they need a drop.

Are you a vet? Just curious

 

[ra7751]

I can only wish I were a vet. I deal with very sick bunnies in our rescue. I have the support of some of the best vets in the country....a nice benefit that I live within an easy drive to a major vet school.

 

[ra7751]

Hi Cheryl,

He looks tired most likely due to a combination of dehydration and hypoglycemia. If it is EC, proper support of the renal system can't be stressed enough. Since the kidneys filter toxins from the blood, if they don't work fully....it will make them (or any living creature) feel bad.

Randy

 

[cheryl]

Hi Randy,

Thanks for that,i guess that explains why he seems lethargic a lot

I wasn't able to talk to Dr Lee today as it was his day of,so i have left a message with the nurse to tell Dr Lee to call me as soon as possible tomorrow morning.

I'm really nervous as i would have never ever suspected him to have EC

I really appreciate your help with this

Cheryl

 

[cheryl]

I've been wondering about head tilt,do all bunnies with EC develop head tilt eventually?,or is that only when EC is at it's worst?,i'm sorry for all the questions but i just need to know.

I have been looking up EC on the net,but don't seem to be getting the answers i want

Thankyou

Cheryl

 

[okiron]

*huggies* pippi will be in my prayers

 

[cheryl]

Aww thankyou Okiron :hug:

 

[ra7751]

Hi Cheryl,

There is a lot of unconfirmed and inaccurate information on the internet regarding treatment of EC. There is no proof that EC causes head tilt. Most likely, and as per our experiences, that EC contributes to head tilt by compromising the immune system and that allows harmful bacteria to grow resulting in a bacterial infection in the ears. Our rabbits with EC had ongoing bacterial infections (ears, eyes, urinary, upper respiratory, etc.)that were secondary to the EC. The immune system is so overwhelmed that it is focusing on the primary infection. There are many sites out there that claim all sorts of "success" stories about treating EC. Many of these stories will involve head tilt, an antibiotic and an anti-parasitic like ivermectin. Fact is, most of these cases were probably not EC since EC does not respond to antibiotics and/or drugs like ivermectin. I do have some good articles on EC that are based on clinical fact documented by top veterinarians....I will send some of the your way later today.

Randy

 

[JadeIcing]

*Hugs to Pippi*