RESOLVED: Breeding decisions - I hate 'em

[pamnock]

Bo B Bunny wrote:

Really? So coloring is a huge part of the breeding? like...... you can have a slight wrong color? and it's huge?

I'm clueless LOL!

It really depends on the breed. In most breeds, general type is the most important when judging. There are a number of breeds such as the lops that give very little consideration tocolor and markings. However, there are general color disqualifications that do apply to all breeds (unless exempt under individual breed standard).

On the other hand, breeds such as the American Chinchilla are judged primarily on their color.

The old timers have a saying for the fact that there is little consideration (5 pts.)given to thecolor and markingson a Californian, "You don't eat the points". Conversely, the same color markings on a Himalayan carry 41 pts.



Pam

 

[Bo B Bunny]

I see. So when we discuss Tony - he's more considered for type than color but still color is an issue (btw you are right - his color is already evening out a lot!) I never noticed him really molting tho LOL! So used to Bo's freaky molts!

AND I HAVE to ask - What the heck is a Whoopie Pie?? :?

 

[TinysMom]

I probably wasn't really clear on my thoughts in the first place as I reread this message.

Triad and Sting would've been really good matches to the does I was thinking of - for body type. With Sting, I couldn't predict the colors as well and I wasn't sure if I wanted to risk getting colors I couldn't use for show. I've not worked much with the dark siamese sable/seal colors. I had been advised to take him to a tort or a REW but those weren't what I needed to have bred.

The black doe (which my daughter has named after a Japanese dish that is made with beans and rice - since I'd said in order to get her we'd have to eat beans and rice for a month) has been bred to Triad.

The blue doe has been bred to Sting.

And I will breed one other doe later today or tomorrow. I am looking at a couple of does and considering them.

I just hate having to make decisions because of all the analyzing I put into it - comparing body types, strengths and weaknesses, etc.

Peg

 

[Bramblerose]

What a shame you're not coming down TM, the Deuschty ladies that run the snack bar at the Lebanon Expo center for the show make the most exquisite Whoopie pies, not just chocolate, but pumpkin and shoofly!!! I wish my mom had known how to make them!! I'll give you a raincheck though.

Bo a Whoopie Pie is a Pensylvania Dutch(Deuscht)/Amish pastry, its like a big soft cookie sandwich, cakey top and bottom, cream in between, generally its chocolate cake, can be other flavors, its really good, and about the size of your hand.

You know I'm sort of glad that most of my breeds are just one color, means that I only have to look at type when I'm making my decisions. I only do light gray in Flemish, although I have thought of getting a steel doe. I've tried to get out of MR a number of times, but I just the love the silly things, but it seems that the color genetics on the colors I want to do are sooo complex, so I feel your pain.

I think you made great choices

 

[pamnock]

pamnock wrote:

The old timers have a saying for the fact that there is little consideration (5 pts.)given to thecolor and markingson a Californian, "You don't eat the points". Conversely, the same color markings on a Himalayan carry 41 pts.



Pam

Another piece of trivia about the Cals - they are one of the few breeds that can blatantly be the wrong color, and yet still be showable and registerable!

They are supposed to have near-black points, with any other color just being faulted (blue, chocolate and lilac cannot be DQd). I've never seen a Cal in any other color, which probably explains why their standard isn't too picky about it

In some cases, age is a factor as to whether or not color is considered. In fryer age Cals, body smut is exempt from disqualification. In the pre-junior classes of Champagne D'Argents and Creme D'Argents, color is not to be considered at all (although is worth 20 points in the junior thru senior classes.

Pam

 

[RuffHaus]

Smoked Pearl was just recently added as an approved COD color.

I would breed against the standard... ie what is weighted more. Ears are not weighted heavily in the standard... HOWEVER, they are becoming shorter as breeders are pushing the trend this direction.

Mane is a huge factor in the standard... so I would definitely consider which buck carries and passes on a fuller mane. Don't think it will matter what color you end up with if the mane is sparse! I would say the next issue would be structure. Once you have structure down, you can start knit picking the color. As it stands right now, even non accepted colors can show as AOV. (Not saying that we should dillute the breed by breeding non COD colors, just saying how the show ring works).

 

[TinysMom]

I've gone ahead and marked this thread as resolved. I'm a bit frustrated with myself as I really didn't originally state it as I should have. Both bucks have very much good type and mane and ears. Sting is slightly better (especially since he carries the dwarfing gene) but to use him meant risking some non-showable colors. I think I was really trying to figure out if I should go ahead and use him and risk the non-showable colors or go with Triad who was almost as good and the colors would be more predictable.

I do appreciate the advice - and it isn't like this is my first breeding or anything. I will soon be entering my third year of breeding and I've been breeding towards the standard since October of '05 when I learned more about how to judge type, etc.

However, in this case, I wasn't sure I'd get as many showable colors from one buck as from another one...so I was trying to decide which way to go.

My breedings are now mostly all done!

Peg

 

[TinysMom]

RuffHaus wrote:

Mane is a huge factor in the standard... so I would definitely consider which buck carries and passes on a fuller mane. Don't think it will matter what color you end up with if the mane is sparse! I would say the next issue would be structure. Once you have structure down, you can start knit picking the color. As it stands right now, even non accepted colors can show as AOV. (Not saying that we should dillute the breed by breeding non COD colors, just saying how the show ring works).

Thanks for the tips - I've been doing that since 2005 and I'm now at the point where I'm working on the ears and the knit-picky part of the colors....

Peg

 

[TinysMom]

Oh - I have to share that it was just anounced that Lynne (one of the people who pulled a COD this year) changed her COD by dropping black tort and adding blue point. I think it was announced just this week.

That is so exciting because we are getting so many colors now on the certificates.

Peg