pet over population myth

[Happi Bun]

Shelters and Rescues always have you sign a contract or at least be in agreement that if it should not work out with the animal you adopted you should bring it back. Often times the rabbits available are past puberty, thus their personality is more stable, making it possible for you to know what kind of bunny you are getting. They will also let you know which have emotional scars and if they will need socialization. The problem you can encounter with babies (breeder OR rescue) is that their personality will change as they age and they are not litterbox trained or speutered. In my work with rabbit rescues I mostly see rabbits being pulled from overcrowded shelters, large hoarder/breeding seizures and owner surrender pet store dumps that had no clue what they were getting into.

The reason rabbits are euthanized everyday in crowded shelters is because there are more available than their are homes to adopt them. Just like cats and dogs. Each day approximately 10,000 humans are born in the U.S. Each day approximately 70,000 kittens and puppies are born as well. That leaves 5 million animals in shelters to die this year. There are just not enough homes.

 

[Violet Crumbles]

Hi, all. I'm chiming in for the first time in a long time - it's long lost me ( http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=58295&forum_id=26&jump_to=784757#p784757 ) .

I've read the first article recently. It is excellent. It helped me connect the dots between various other articles and live radio topics addressing the same misrepresentation of numbers reported by shelters. It also made my personal experiences in one metropolitan shelter make a lot more sense. lol

Though one might expect the articles to lead people to bring up their passionate views on the old shelters vs. breeders debate, Myia09, you have really gone over the top. Based on your outdated views on rabbit raising and misuse of terminology, I'd have to say that I do not believe that you know what you are talking about.

As to the idea that rabbits do not like being picked up? It is a common myth that rescuers routinely use to cover up, or gloss over, behavioral issues in the rabbits they adopt out. Keep the adopter's expectations low and they won't be disappointed, right? If you're experience with rabbits has proven this myth to be true to YOU, then you are really missing out. Rabbits LOVE to be held, picked up, cuddled in my lap for hours, climb, be groomed, etc. That is overwhelmingly the case in MY experience which is broad.

If there is a rabbit that is not easily picked up and held, it is either a problem with the rabbit (due to past lack of handling or mishandling/socializing) or it is their current human's problem (they do not practice proper rabbit handling techniques).

My time in the shelter opened my eyes to many a thing. Firstly, that I had been lied to about where these shelter animals came from. Looking at a number of over 250 rabbits that came in within one period of time, seven, SEVEN came from breeders and five of those should have never been there (the breeder dumped them at the shelter) and one was a complete mystery who it came from. It was an extremely well socialized, exceptionally rare breed that was euthanized for no reason other than it was one larger rabbit in a overcrowded room of smaller (reads: adoptable) mutts. So, those other 243 rabbits that were sentenced to a stressed out existence in a "state of the art" shelter that was not built for their comfort....where did they come from if not from evil breeders? They came from irresponsible pet owners who bought them from pet shops who bought them from one of a handful of national pet brokers OR back yard breeders (aka - the irresponsible pet owner, themselves, continuing a cycle).

Don't tell me that all those "Hotot mixes", "Dutch crosses", Mini Rex with thin curly coats, or "English Spots" (not English Spots) came from the same kind of breeder I see on this forum which you seem bent on vilifying. :rollseyes If you want to be able to correctly identify who you enemy is, it helps to know what they actually look like (hint: not these god send reputable breeders that can help you in tremendous ways).

Show exhibitors (aka reputable breeders) breed for excellence. Period. Not for numbers, not for others, and not at the expense of quality as a whole - temperament being one of the vital measurements of a quality show rabbit.

If your avatar is a depiction of you, I highly doubt you are old enough to have remembered any of the generations of NDs that are said to be notorious for bad temperaments. More likely that you experienced one bad apple. Those days of high strung, aggressive NDs are all but gone. NDs now days are more akin to having a lively JW temperament than anything else. They're sweet because breeders made them that way because temperament is extremely important in any domestic animal.

I understand that it must be frustrating to your cause that some people don't adopt rabbits from shelters. I know that feeling. But to blame lulls in adoption on breeders or those buying from reputable breeders is misplaced anger at best. There are many excellent points made in this thread. Education is the key to keeping shelter numbers low as well as finding the best, permanent homes for animals. Whether those animals are were bought from a shelter or a breeder, education keeps them out of the shelter and keeps the numbers of unwanted animal births down.

I don't recognize all the members here but I think it is appropriate to suggest to you, Myia09, to not kill the messenger simply because you do not like the message.

 

[JadeIcing]

Like all things in life, there is good and bad to both sides. When it comes to bunnies I am more likely to go through the rescue. When it comes to dogs? That is a toss up, though more than likely will go to a breeder. When it comes to my reptiles? That could and has gone both ways.

To say that all breeders are bad is not true. Same as it would be a lie to say all are good. Ditto for pet owners; rescues; shelters. There is good and bad like there is in everything in life.

Knowledge is key to making the right choices for your pets/family/life. Look into to all aspects of owning an animal and keep an open mind to information given to you.

I work with those "reject" bunnies. All have come around to varied degrees. I saw a frightened bunny become a social butterfly. I saw a aggressive rabbit become a lover. I accept that each is different. I have gone to shows where there are some sweet social bunnies gone to the next breeder and the bunnies are holy terrors. I have spoken to breeders who will tell you a whole litter raised with love and attention but for some reason there is one who just doesn't want to be held. Little use for humans. I have seen the same with litters born IN the rescue.

 

[Happi Bun]

I have a one year old unshowable Netherland Dwarf I got from a breeder as a cull that is super territorial and high strung. It started when he hit puberty and never left despite neutering. I'm trying to work with him on it. I wouldn't call the breeder responsible though and she was likely breeding ill tempered ND's.

While you bring up some good points, you really stepped on a lot of toes with your first post on this forum, especially calling out Myia personally and questioning her knowledge simply because you disagree. I take it personally when you make an accusation that rescues LIE about rabbits often times not enjoying being cuddled and picked up.

 

[JadeIcing]

Oh and a side note. I would not breed rabbits here because I see how many emails we get about bunnies in need. I am considering breeding leos down the road. The closet leo in a rescue to me is in NJ. 150miles away.

 

[Violet Crumbles]

Beautifully said, JadeIcing.

Happi Bun, I'm not new to the rabbit world. I'm familiar with well known rabbit rescues, worked with them, trained their shelter reps. I rescue. I educate. I know a whole lot more about what is routine for those rescues in my state than I'll ever tell.

I don't know Myia09 from Adam. In this thread, I'll oppose her, in the next, be by her side. It's not personal.

I'm a big fan of the saying "You cannot be offended unless you are willing to be". No offense was meant by me, just as I am sure no offense was meant by Myia09. Both what she and I stated make for good debate. There is none if there are not two sides.

My point of view is closer to JadeIcing statements. There is a lot of truth to be found in the middle ground and it is rarely so extremely one sided as some make it to be.

As far as first impressions, make them whatever you want. I've never found happiness in worrying about what people think of, or will say of, me, though, I've found that those that take the time to consider what I say do respect me. I chalk up my frankness to experience, genetic defects, and getting old but mainly it's my genetic defects.

 

[tonyshuman]

I want to add that Rabbits Online is nearly unique among online rabbit communities in that it is a site where breeders and rescuers get along (more or less) and are able to learn things from each other. It is important that we respect each other.

It is not a lie that millions of animals are euthanized every year in shelters due to lack of homes. Some shelters are better at adopting out some animals, and for that reason they may take in animals on "death row" from other shelters. The shelter I volunteer with has not euthanized a rabbit for lack of space/lack of homes in years; we routinely take in rabbits that would otherwise be euthanized from other counties' shelters. My Frida is one of those very bunnies--about to be PTS at another shelter, brought to our shelter, and then adopted to a good home.

On the other hand, we cannot find enough homes for cats and do have to euthanize perfectly healthy, sociable cats that we cannot find homes for. We are also better with dogs, in part because many of our dogs go to breed-specific rescues instead of staying a long time at the shelter.

Pet over-population is not a myth. Where these animals come from is a matter of some debate, however. Every shelter will be different, but most of the bunnies we take in come from 4H or pet stores. Most of these bunnies were not accidentally created, ie "oops" litters. Does that mean they came from "reputable" breeders? No. The pet store bunnies typically are from backyard breeders or suppliers like others have mentioned. 4H bunnies do sometimes come from good breeders originally, but they are often further bred by children who cannot be responsible for tens of bunnies, and then the child who owns the bunny loses interest and gives the animal up. Not all 4H bunnies meet this fate of course but it is what I see in my shelter.

I am sorry that some people associated with HRS take a very hard-line stance against rabbit breeders. Not everyone who does rescue has those beliefs.

It is my opinion that responsible breeders are not the problem, and by responsible I mean a breeder who sells their show-quality bunnies to other responsible breeders, and sells their pet-quality bunnies to good homes, and then guarantees to take the bunnies back if the home will no longer work out. In this situation, a responsible breeder's bunnies will never end up in a shelter or rescue. Unfortunately, not all breeders are responsible in this way, just as not all HRS people think all breeding is bad.

Pet overpopulation in terms of dogs and cats cannot be ignored, however. There are so many people who get animals from friends or coworkers accidental litters, do not have the fixed, and then allow them to have contact with other intact animals, leading to more accidental litters. I help with low-cost spay/neuter services that exist just to reduce this problem. Most of the animals we get have been gotten from backyard breeders or accidental breeding due to irresponsible pet ownership. Having an unfixed animal that has access to the out-of-doors is irresponsible because they will come into contact with other unfixed animals and lead to litters. That is where most dogs and cats in shelters come from. This is less common with bunnies because you cannot have a free-roaming indoor/outdoor rabbit like you can a cat, and you cannot tie up a rabbit in the yard where other animals that are roaming free might be able to mate with it. Very few dogs or cats in shelters came from people who bought them from a responsible breeder.

It is astounding how rapidly cats in particular multiply; we have a large feral population in the farmlands around Madison. Most of these cats cannot be placed in homes due to their personalities. However, some people do rehabilitate them into pets. Cats that are owned by people in the city also get out and get pregnant.

There is no way to make generalizations about animals in shelters regarding health or personality.

 

[Myia09]

Violet Crumbles wrote:

Though one might expect the articles to lead people to bring up their passionate views on the old shelters vs. breeders debate, Myia09, you have really gone over the top.  Based on your outdated views on rabbit raising and misuse of terminology, I'd have to say that I do not believe that you know what you are talking about.

As to the idea that rabbits do not like being picked up?  It is a common myth that rescuers routinely use to cover up, or gloss over, behavioral issues in the rabbits they adopt out.  Keep the adopter's expectations low and they won't be disappointed, right?  If you're experience with rabbits has proven this myth to be true to YOU, then you are really missing out.  Rabbits LOVE to be held, picked up, cuddled in my lap for hours, climb, be groomed, etc.  That is overwhelmingly the case in MY experience which is broad.

If there is a rabbit that is not easily picked up and held, it is either a problem with the rabbit (due to past lack of handling or mishandling/socializing) or it is their current human's problem (they do not practice proper rabbit handling techniques). 

My time in the shelter opened my eyes to many a thing.  Firstly, that I had been lied to about where these shelter animals came from.  Looking at a number of over 250 rabbits that came in within one period of time, seven, SEVEN came from breeders and five of those should have never been there (the breeder dumped them at the shelter) and one was a complete mystery who it came from.  It was an extremely well socialized, exceptionally rare breed that was euthanized for no reason other than it was one larger rabbit in a overcrowded room of smaller (reads: adoptable) mutts.  So, those other 243 rabbits that were sentenced to a stressed out existence in a "state of the art" shelter that was not built for their comfort....where did they come from if not from evil breeders?  They came from irresponsible pet owners who bought them from pet shops who bought them from one of a handful of national pet brokers OR back yard breeders (aka - the irresponsible pet owner, themselves, continuing a cycle).

Don't tell me that all those "Hotot mixes", "Dutch crosses", Mini Rex with thin curly coats, or "English Spots" (not English Spots) came from the same kind of breeder I see on this forum which you seem bent on vilifying.  :rollseyes  If you want to be able to correctly identify who you enemy is, it helps to know what they actually look like (hint: not these god send reputable breeders that can help you in tremendous ways).

Show exhibitors (aka reputable breeders) breed for excellence.  Period.  Not for numbers, not for others, and not at the expense of quality as a whole - temperament being one of the vital measurements of a quality show rabbit. 

If your avatar is a depiction of you, I highly doubt you are old enough to have remembered any of the generations of NDs that are said to be notorious for bad temperaments.  More likely that you experienced one bad apple.  Those days of high strung, aggressive NDs are all but gone.  NDs now days are more akin to having a lively JW temperament than anything else.  They're sweet because breeders made them that way because temperament is extremely important in any domestic animal.

I understand that it must be frustrating to your cause that some people don't adopt rabbits from shelters.  I know that feeling.  But to blame lulls in adoption on breeders or those buying from reputable breeders is misplaced anger at best.  There are many excellent points made in this thread.  Education is the key to keeping shelter numbers low as well as finding the best, permanent homes for animals.  Whether those animals are were bought from a shelter or a breeder, education keeps them out of the shelter and keeps the numbers of unwanted animal births down.

I don't recognize all the members here but I think it is appropriate to suggest to you, Myia09, to not kill the messenger simply because you do not like the message.

Hi Violet

I am not sure what terminology I have misused, and if I did I apologize. However, my views or not outdated. In actuality, I don't see how you gathered enough information about myself, my rabbits, or my beliefs to make that statement.

Rabbits are prey animals. Done deal. I never said rabbits don't love to be groomed, cuddled, or what not. In fact, my rabbits, when I come to their level, are very snuggly bunnies. However, I refuse to believe it is natural for a rabbit to feel comfortable with being picked up and carried around. Being put in a lap is very different than being picked up. Confusion on terms maybe?

I can pick up my rabbits just fine. However, it doesn't mean they LIKE it. Yes, some rabbits freak out when being picked up and I believe that is from importer handling and not being used to it.

But if you expect me to believe that a prey animal like to be in picked up and carried, I disagree. Toleration and agreement is different.

I think were also mis conceptualizing breeders. Lots of rabbits in rescues are accidental litters as well. Most of the rabbits in the 3 main rescues here in Arizona are owner surrenders. Most of them bought the rabbit from a breeder or a store, not adopted. In fact, I said that the main problem is people who buy from these breeders and pet store. Now, we can easily say crack heads are the drug problem, but who is supplying them with the drugs? The dealers. Same logic.

And in fact, you make a fool out of yourself for not properly reading my posts. In fact, I said that there are good breeders. I have no doubt of that. But I would 100% agree that MOST breeders are NOT that good breeder.

Second, don't attack my age. You don't even actually know how old I am, although I am flattered you find me so young. I have over 13 years rescuing exotics. I will say I am fairly new to rabbits (With coming into the rabbit world in the past 3-4 years) but I have extensive knowledge in exotic handling and care. I have rescued mostly reptiles and fish, pets that are often completely tossed away without anyone like lawmakers that care.

Third, I have extensively research rabbits and breeds. Yes, I had a very independent ND. Most ND-which have actually been from "Good breeders" -that I have experiences with have been extremely independent. I shouldn't generalize breeds either, at all. To say all ND are that way is wrong.

Again, this is where you should read my posts more carefully. I in fact said the main problem was the people who buy them; not the breeders. So who am I really vilifying?

PS:
You can tell someone they are wrong and not be mean or mean offense. You CAN'T tell someone, from literally 3 posts, the huge inaccurate generalizations you have made about me. That is offensive.

Luckily, I don't care.

 

[Myia09]

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

Myia09- I am sorry that you felt that I was generalizing anything. That was not my goal, I was just hoping to explain that everyone's needs or wants are different.

I am certainly not saying that there are not sweet shelter bunnies out there. I am only saying that many of them come from very sad situations in which they may not have had much (if any) human contact. My experience has been that bunnies do love to be held and fawned over when they have had that kind of interaction since they were young. I don't blame the rabbits for the way they've been treated, but as many adopters have experienced, the rabbits from those situations are not always comfortable with that kind of interaction and more prefer playing with you on the floor. Again, it is wonderful that some owners learn how to make their bunnies comfortable and interact with them on that level. But some people do want cuddly lap bunnies. It is not true that most people don't breed for temperament. It's true that the overall goal has been to improve the structure and soundness of the breeds, but in recent decades, the type on rabbits has become very consistent and breeders have shifted towards focusing on temperament because rabbits are largely pets now, rather than just production animals like they were in the past. Not every rabbit is going to be a cuddle bun, but many of us do strive for that. I know I personally like even my show rabbits to be friendly pets.

I wasn't trying to compare to horses either, but just giving an example that many people do prefer different coat patterns and such in any animal. And that I feel like that's okay. It's not that being white makes an animal different from a black one. But if that person loves white animals, then they are a great home for a white one, you know?

I'm sorry that my post came off differently, and I did not mean that there is any group that is best. Only that every pet owner deserves the opportunity to obtain the pet that is best for them. I don't think anyone should be given a turned shoulder for their decision, whether it is from a rescue or a breeder.

I'd rather not get into the debate about whether or not breeding is "okay", because I don't think that was the goal of this post. But I did just want to explain where I was coming from, I hope that explains better.

I see where you were coming from. Although I still don't agree fully, clarification is much appreciated

I really see your point and can def agree that it is the most important for a person to get the right pet.

Again, it does go back to the owners.

 

[Violet Crumbles]

Tinkerbell Rabbitry wrote:

ETA I've also heard rescues contacting breeders, who have a client that is wanting a specific breed but they don't have any in that breed, so they go looking for a breeder that does and gets one for them from that breeder.

I passed this right up.

Are you talking about rabbits? I brought that up on another forum because it happened to me. :banghead If this is were you heard it, your above statement is not all true. The rescues were declined sale for obvious ethical reasons. They were not actually able to buy rabbits for their clients from me or the east coast breeder.

If I seem jaded, it is because of my experiences.

 

[naturestee]

I think this is a case where people who are only involved in proper, responsible breeding see one far side and the people who are only involved in rescue may see the far end of the other side. I volunteer in a shelter that routinely has to euthanize cats, frequently dogs, and in extreme circumstances rabbits, rats, and other critters due to space constraints and lack of adopters. I also have attended several ARBA rabbit shows, married a farmer, and know a lot of people in 4H.

What responsible breeders don't see: There ARE irresponsible breeders too. I live in Wisconsin, and let me tell you that in Sheboygan we can't wait for the new dog breeding rules to come into effect. Why? There is a local puppy mill that churns out multiple breeds of poorly bred, horrendously cared for dogs. There are currently no laws in place that allow us to even fine him for keeping dogs in old barrels with no food or water and living in their own poop. When he can't breed a dog any more due to age or health, he advertises them in the paper for free. I've seen some get pulled in by the shelter and they need months of work in foster homes to socialize and potty train them. As far as rabbits go, the local 4H program apparently does not do a very good job. We regularly get 4H rabbits after the kid doesn't feel like caring for them any more. Several were in horrible condition. We have also had problems with "backyard" rabbit breeders, especially around Easter, some of which dump their leftover Easter rabbits on us. We've had cases where when someone decided to stop breeding their mutt rabbits, they dumped them all on us, pregnant females and syphilis and all. NOT FUN.

What rescue people with no breeder contacts don't see: There are great breeders. There are people who care about their animals, socialize them, are careful about genetics, and don't over-breed their animals. I've met them at my vet's office, at the county fair, at ARBA shows, and here at RO. Many 4H kids keep their "projects" for their lifespan and take at least decent care of them. Rabbit breeders who breed primarily for show and who sell primarily to show people usually don't affect the shelter population much. But rabbits sold to pet stores or advertised in papers as pets, etc., do.

I do take offense at a comment in the Spaniel article. It said most shelter animals are there due to behavioral or other problems that the owners can't deal with. This is a LIE. The vast majority of animals in a city shelter/humane society are there for the following reasons: moving and can't take animal, moving to nursing home, found as a stray, can't afford (my town had a ton of layoffs), kids aren't caring for it (especially rabbits and little critters), allergies, and drumroll please... we just don't feel like having it any more. And FYI, when cats are brought in for peeing out of the litterbox, they are usually found to have a UTI, are treated, and then are adoptable.

Not to mention that the idea that domestic cats aren't overpopulated is ridiculous. Even Siamese and Persians are fairly common or even found as strays. Try cleaning up a stray Persian! Walk into any shelter that accepts strays at any time of the year. See how many are shoved in the back waiting for the displayed animals to be adopted so they have a visible cage to move into. See how many are euthanized. Now go back during kitten season and watch the adult cat survival rate plummet.

 

[naturestee]

I have never personally heard of a rescue procuring a rabbit from a breeder for someone to adopt. I have heard of them directing someone to a breeder. What is more common is for a rescue to keep an eye open for rabbits of a requested breed or color. I volunteer with Soulmate Rabbit Rescue, and we do this. We sometimes take in rabbits from high-kill shelters in Chicago and it is surprisingly easy to find various breeds there, and with good temperaments too.

 

[Violet Crumbles]

naturestee wrote:

I do take offense at a comment in the Spaniel article.......

The vast majority of animals in a city shelter/humane society are there for the following reasons: moving and can't take animal, moving to nursing home, found as a stray, can't afford (my town had a ton of layoffs), kids aren't caring for it (especially rabbits and little critters), allergies, and drumroll please... we just don't feel like having it any more. And FYI, when cats are brought in for peeing out of the litterbox, they are usually found to have a UTI, are treated, and then are adoptable.

All that would fall under the category of "other problems that the owners can't deal with". We'd see the same thing at our shelter. Very, very sad.

When I was there, it was sad to see how many people turned over their pets for financial reasons - even dogs they'd had for years but now had medical problems in their old age. I remember it making me angry but how could I judge knowing that so many of my neighbors were loosing their homes and struggling to feed their families, due to the economy. Very sad.

 

[Sweetie]

I like to add another thing: some rabbits do like being picked up and others do not. It is all in their personality. My ND will tolerate being held and cuddled only for a few minutes, but my Lionhead doe loves being cuddled and held.

About the breeders, I have had one bad experience with a breeder. She was not completely honest with me about her rabbit that I was getting from her. But I would not say that all rabbit breeders are dishonest. You just have to use your best judgments with all kinds of breeders, shelters and rescues.

 

[Violet Crumbles]

In the show world, I see strong tendencies for super social rabbits that love to be picked up and be in-your-face-friendly. But you're right. There are individual rabbits who don't like it or freak. I've have 2 that did not like handling born in my barn.

Sometimes, you just don't know what to expect. I mean, pfft, who here has a climber? Or several?! Being that they are ground animals, who knew rabbits love to climb? LOL

 

[RandomWiktor]

I do take offense at a comment in the Spaniel article. It said most shelter animals are there due to behavioral or other problems that the owners can't deal with. This is a LIE. The vast majority of animals in a city shelter/humane society are there for the following reasons: moving and can't take animal, moving to nursing home, found as a stray, can't afford (my town had a ton of layoffs), kids aren't caring for it (especially rabbits and little critters), allergies, and drumroll please... we just don't feel like having it any more. And FYI, when cats are brought in for peeing out of the litterbox, they are usually found to have a UTI, are treated, and then are adoptable.

Yes, this. Articles like that spaniel article bother me specifically because it relies onreader ignoranceand, because it is written with such bias, is essentially implying to readers that you *must* buy a dog from a breeder if you don't want a sickly, ill-tempered animal. It's as bad as shelters that suggest that if you buy a dog from a breeder, it WILL be wracked with horrible genetic health. Like I said, blatantly biased article, and while it has some good ideas, the presentation is just as warped and peppered with falsehoods as an article written by PETA.

Great post overall, naturestree - I absolutely agree that both sides have their "blinders" on. I think it is easier for the human mind to see things in black and white rather than realizing that virtually everything is a grey area. One of my friends likes to say "always is never," meaning that there is rarely a situation where x is always true. Very applicable to this discussion, methinks.

I also agree that whoever said cats are not overpopulated must be on something. More likely, it's no mistake that they pointed out the 80+ million cats in US households, but glossed over the estimated 40-60 million feral cats in the US that are currently decimating wildlife populations, climbing in ranks as a common rabies vector, and of course, dying painfully after short and deprived lives.

If we assume that we can define "overpopulated" as beyond the environment's carrying capacity, and we assume the "environment" to be human homes and the "carrying capacity" to be people able and willing to provide quality life-long care... I'd say our cat population is suffering from more than just regional overpopulation (another issue the article glossed over; my town implemented free cat spay/neuter because combined with ferals we had more cats than we do people once the college kids go home for the summer). I can't really imagine with the euth rates of cats that we could also reasonably accomodate the ever-growing feral population.

 

[Nela]

[*]

[align=center]“The language we use to communicate with one another is like a knife. In the hands of a careful and skilled surgeon, a knife can work to do great good. But in the hands of a careless or ignorant person, a knife can cause great harm.”
Exactly as it is with our words.”
Source Unknown[/align]​

[*]

[align=center]“Treat people as if they were what they ought to be, and help them to become what they are capable of being.”
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832 )
German poet and composer[/align]​

[align=center]__________________________________[/align]
[align=center]I am a bit disappointed in some of the responses I have seen on this thread. I am not going to name anyone, nor directly quote because I don't believe humiliating anyone will help but I am hoping that most people are mature enough to honestly look into what they said and see where they might have gone wrong.[/align]
[align=center]I do not believe anyone should cause another grief because they didn't doas you would have done. I also believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion and are entitled to expressing it - as long as they treat is as it is: an opinion. Opinion is merely an interpretation of what one knows and doesn't know. Opinion is not fact. Opinion is not a "my way or no way" law.[/align]
[align=center]Having been on pet forums for several years now, I am soooooo tired of this common bashing of one another. What exactly do you hope to achieve by bashing someone for his or her beliefs and methods? [/align]
[align=center]Let me tell you one thing: the way I see it,the source of the problem is not one particular group over another. Many rabbit owners, pet store owners, breeders, and even shelters fail the bunnies in their care.[/align]
[align=center]As for overpopulation being a myth or not? In my opinion, even a single bunny being homeless is one too much.[/align]
[align=center]But what can we do?[/align]
[align=center]Well rather than sitting here and bashing each other left and right, how about we try a different method? Let's say... Working together? Is that so crazy to even consider? [/align]
[align=center]Does boycotting anything really help in the immediate? Doesattacking someone reallymake the personbeing attacked see what you are saying as being helpful? Does blaming each other really help the rabbits???[/align]
[align=center]Isn't helping rabbits what we're all here for? Doesn't RO stand for that? Does RO state anywhere on its site that rabbits coming from any one particular place deserve more than others?[/align]
[align=center]In my opinion,every single rabbit out there deserves a good life. It doesn't matter to me where they come from as much as it matters that that bunny has a good life. People get bashed for buying a bunny at the pet store, buying a bunny from a breeder, and sometimes even for adopting. Basically, no matter what you do, you can never please everyone. What matters is that you, yourself, be happy with your decisions. You're the one who has to live with yourself anyway right? [/align]
[align=center]The only real long-term solution I see is real, honest, and proper education of thepopulation. Now, I can hear you guys scoff and say "Thank you Captain Obvious" but let me tell you this...[/align]
[align=center]If it is so obvious, why are we all still fighting each other?There are actual advantages for everyone involved, especially the rabbits.[/align]
[align=center]If you see a pet store selling rabbits, instead of jumping on your high horse right away, and going on a rampage about how there are tons of rabbits in shelters needing homes, why don't you take a moment to actually consider why they do it? It doesn't mean you have to agree, all it means is that you are first willing to even try to see the other's point of view, rather than shoving yours down everyone's throat. Do you know what you can do to help the rabbits in the care of pet stores??? Help. Don't fight, don't insult, don't snob, don't act like you know it all.[/align]
[align=center]HELP.[/align]
[align=center]Reach out that hand of yours and offer to help. Offer to volunteer. Offer to set up playpens. Offer to educate employees. Offer a contact number when they have a bunny with behavioural issues that you can help with. Offer to help train employees catch ailments in time. GENTLY. You want to be a friend, a resource, a person of trust, someone they can actually open up to. Let them feel threatened, let them feel like you would be willing to ruin their reputation at the slightest thing and I promise they will shy away. [/align]
[align=center]It's fine if you do not believe me. But I have done it. It actually surprised me how many pet stores were actually willing to work with me. You'd probably be surprised too. You will come across those that will not be interested in changing their methods. You need to understand that not everyone will actually care. However, there are many that do and putting them all in the same bunch is just plain wrong. Either way, your main focus is to get to the bunnies that you can help.[/align]
[align=center]Shelters? Same thing. How many shelters need to euthanize due to space? How many shelters feed certain things because it's cheap. How about you try and work with them to see if there is a way to reconfigure thespace to offer more? How about you create a play area where you can rotate rabbits in and out so they get playtime if the shelter doesn't already do it? What about looking for donations in terms of food, hay, etc. How about educating certain shelters about not barring certain people just because... Many shelters have a great setup but there are still lots of shelters out there that struggle. Many shelters are mainly cat and dog shelters and really have little knowledge of rabbits. There's lots of help that can be offered there. Most even appreciate somone simply posting ads for them so that they can find homes. Everyone can help some way or other.[/align]
[align=center]As for breeders, there are good ones and there are the bad ones. I think the best people to help with bad breeders are actual proper ones. A breeder is less likely to feel under attack if the other person trying to help is a breeder themself. We've seen it numerous times on RO in fact. How many times have we come across people wanting to breed just because they think it would be fun but have noooo idea about what it actually implies? How about those people that think they'll actually make a profit off breeding?[/align]
[align=center]We won't win them all. In a perfect world, we would but we are far from a perfect world aren't we? However, ooooh what a difference it makes when you win even one place over. Educating and helping anyone and everyone you can - that is whatyou want to do.[/align]
[align=center]I have adopted. I have bought from a pet store. I have purchased from a breeder. Does this make me a bad person? You may think so, but I don't feel it. In my opinion, every bunny needs a home. I cannot offer every single one of them one, so I permit myself to choose a selected few. As for how I choose them, that is my personal choice. In the end, the immediate is the same. A rabbit deserves a home. As for the long-run, if everyone steps up their game, there would be less and less rabbits lost.[/align]
[align=center]The source, the real source of the problem: demand.[/align]
[align=center]No demand? No sales. No sales, no rabbits being dumped. Help those already in the vicious circle and help lighten the demand at the same time. I think we can pretty much all agree on that and, if we all agree on that, we can work hand in hand.[/align]
[align=center]Making someone feel like a bad person and making them feel like they have to be defensive as soon as you come aroundwill never enable you help them or the rabbit in their care.[/align]
[align=center]Remember that.[/align]
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[JadeIcing]

Very nice post.

 

[Tinkerbell Rabbitry]

No I've heard this from several different places. I should probably clarify this....I mean tries to buy them from breeders....sorry if you thought I was talking about you.

 

[JadeIcing]

Yea I have never heard of that. I know we keep an eye out if one comes into the rescue or we direct them to a rescue that has what they are looking for. We have even done exchanges with rescues. They take one of ours they know they can find a home for and we take one of theirs we know we can adopt out.