Need to go to vets, but now, or can it wait?

[mouse_chalk]

Sorry to be so long with an update guys...

Chalk's still doing great, the abscesses are much the same, but look quite a bit less red. Some of them still haven't burst, but I'm still getting a good amount of pus out of the others.... I've got a new picture to compare, I'll try and post it later if I get chance...

We're going back to the vets on Monday, where we'll likely make a decision then as to whether she needs further surgery to remove them or not.:? She continues to be a little madam though, and binky like crazy all over the place!

Thank you!

 

[LuvaBun]

Well, we LOVE attitude on bunnies that are ill - shows they aren't too bad .

I was hoping that most of the puss would have gone by now :?. I guess if surgery is the answer, then that's the way to go, but I am still hoping that they can get rid of them without.

Jan

 

[mouse_chalk]

Guys, I'm really worried....

We were cleaning Chalk's wound just now (late I know but she's been hopping about so happily we hated to catch her and spoil it)

Anyway, now that some of the swelling has gone down from the abscesses, I can feel a lump. It's under her skin, about the size of the tip of my little finger. It doesn't seem to be attached to her skin, but I can't tell if it's attached to anything underneath. It feels hard, but sort of squishy, a bit like her abscesses have felt before they've burst... She hates it being touched and squirmed loads...

I'm SO worried now, in case it's the same thing again... Do you guys think it's worth a trip to the vets tomorrow? They're closed, so it'll have to be the animal hospital, and costly, but we'll do it if it's needed. Or could it wait til Monday? I'm so so worried that she'll need further surgery, she's been such a strong bunny through everything she's had recently, but I'm worried about her having surgery again so soon after the last time...

And, I'm worried about what the lump could be.... Even if it's an abscess, I've decided I feel much 'safer' with abscesses that are external and I can see...

Please help!! :?

 

[mouse_chalk]

This is a really bad picture, but I'm trying to show the lump:

I don't know if you can see, but my thumb and forefinger is 'pinching' the lump, you might be able to just make out where the skin is slightly raised there, underneath the red spots where the burst abscesses are... It's sort of egg/oval shaped, not 'round'.... :?

I'll try and get a better picture tomorrow when she might stay still more....

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Yikes. I think she needs to see the vet over that. My niece's dog just had to go back from her spay (my dog's sister) and she had a lump - a piece of metal was stuck in there..... but the infection was like this.... it also could be a bit of a hernia?

 

[Haley]

Im so sorry you guys are going through so much still. If you have a good after hours vet on Sundays that knows about rabbits I would take her in, if not I would wait until Monday unless you see her really going downhill.

I tried to read through the whole thread but I think I missed it- what kind of meds is she on? I think she needs to be on injectibable antibiotics (peng or bicillin really but I dont think you have them in the UK).

Is she eating and pooping ok right now?

 

[mouse_chalk]

Thanks guys for your quick replies!

She's still on oral Baytril, has been for a week now, and is to stay on it until we see the vet again on Monday (as previously arranged)..

She's still acting fine, apart from hating being picked up, she's binkying about, eating loads, pooping up a storm, etc etc, VERY alert and bright...

I guess with this being the case I could wait until Monday? Although me personally I'm not sure if I could cope waiting till Monday to know what it is... We could call them tomorrow, and see what they say, maybe we could get some advice over the phone?

Like I said, it's all insured, so the cost isn't an issue really, but I don't want to make a fuss about something that isn't really an emergency? An out of hours visit is £130 basic call-out where as a normal consultation is £30 (double to get that amount in dollars), and we'd have to pay out ourselves and then claim it back due to the way we've started the claim, but if it's needed we can do it!

A hernia? That doesn't sound good.... :?

 

[Bo B Bunny]

could be the inside sutures have sort of broken loose. So it might need a bit more done....sometimes kittens and stuff get hernias in their umbilical site

 

[MsBinky]

Bo B Bunny wrote:

could be the inside sutures have sort of broken loose. So it might need a bit more done....sometimes kittens and stuff get hernias in their umbilical site

I just got my kitten back because of that. Seems there was lots of inflammation and they broke loose. If it is that, they'll put her under anesthesia and just fix it up. Personally, I think Tuesday might be ok to wait but it all depends on if she's showing signs of pain, eating, drinking, etc etc. Houdina wasn't showing any signs othe than the lump but she was whining a lot at the vet's (she recognizes the place) and the vet said she had reason to whine. I guess being animals that hide their pain, it might be more uncomfortable than we realize so obviously the sooner the better but it's up to you to know what you can and cannot do as well. :rose:I'm sorry to hear that its not ove yet :?

 

[mouse_chalk]

Bo B Bunny wrote:

could be the inside sutures have sort of broken loose. So it might need a bit more done....sometimes kittens and stuff get hernias in their umbilical site

I hadn't thought of that... That's possible, although it seems a little late on for that to happen now? Her operation was a month ago now, May 2nd! :shock:

We didnt' take her to the vets today, she's still acting perfectly normal, if you saw her you honestly wouldn't be able to tell that there's anything wrong with her unless you looked at it. I don't know if we did the right thing there or not, but at the moment I think she'll be ok until tomorrow. I'll call them first thing in the morning, and they're usually very good about fitting us in within a couple of hours, same day at least. I still have Metacam if she seems to be in pain, or should I maybe give her some now anyway? :?

The lump is still looking the same today, I don't think it's gotten any bigger... I feel really bad for not noticing it before, but either it wasn't there, or it was hidden by the external swelling. It's possible that one of the abscesses above it on her skin was swollen, and that's what I thought it was. The vet didn't notice it on Monday either... :?

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Come on Chalkie, what are you doing to your poor mom? I really hope to see some improvement in her soon. This is terribly worrying

 

[Marietta]

To my -bitter- experience with my previous bun, abscesses sort of multiply, if not aggressively treated. They don't only look more swollen, as the pus keeps filling them and the skin in the area gets irritated and red from the swelling, but they also expand, i.e. they seem to pop up in spots near the existing ones as the days go by. As far as the abdominal area is concerned, internal abscesses may also form and attach to various organs. Thesecan be detected via x-ray or ultra-sound.In regard to pus aspiration, on the one hand it is extremely difficult, because it has the consistency and looks of toothpaste, so it doesn't flow out of the abscess, the way a cat's or dog's abscess would; on the other hand, from what I've read over the years, this is a highly debated issue, as it has been said thatexercising pressure onthe abscess surface, in order to clean out the pus, may cause an existinginternal abscess to burst and the bunny to die from septicemia. The point where everybody agrees is that the surgical removal of an encapsulated abscess is a full and final treatment of the abscess. Most of the vets use aggressive íinjectable treatments with penicillin combos -and alsomore modern antibiotics- in order to eradicate or minimise the abscess in view of a forthcoming surgery.

In regard to signs of pain, they usually are not in pain, if the abscess is external. They run, eat, drink, poopand binkie as usual.

As for waiting till tomorrow, I don't think that you'll see any significant chances up to Monday, so, I don't think this is an emergency. It's better that your rabbit savvy vet of preference checks on the situation, instead of any vet being on an emergency shift in a clinic.

Marietta

 

[mouse_chalk]

SnowyShiloh wrote:

Come on Chalkie, what are you doing to your poor mom? I really hope to see some improvement in her soon. This is terribly worrying

:hug: Thank you Shiloh....


And thank-you Marietta, what you put was what I thought was my general understanding about abscesses in bunnies, although I hadn't thought about the pressure being put on external abscesses to 'drain' them causing an internal abscess... I don't know if that's the case here or not, but another internal abscess rupturing with Chalk is something I want to avoid at all costs, so just to be on the safe side, do you think I should maybe just clean it this evening and not try to squeeze them? Until we go to the vets in the morning that is...

I'm pretty much preparing myself for the course of events tomorrow now. Before this lump I had really hoped that we could avoid surgery if the abscesses healed well enough, but not that there is an internal lump, possibly abscess or something it looks fairly likely she will need more surgery When we take her in tomorrow I fully expect that they will send us down to the hospital for an x-ray, at the very least, if they don't want to operate... It's not that I want her to have surgery, I'm just preparing myself for it, if that makes sense? Whatever happens, I fully trust our vets and know that they will take good care of her, and will choose the best course of action...

By the way, it might come across in this thread as if I'm not worried, I just want to say that isn't the case at all, I'm absolutely terrified of what might happen, especially if she has to have further surgery so soon after the last, I guess that worrying about Chalk has become an normality over recent weeks, and also, I don't want to be panicking too much, as I know that wont be good for either her or me, or Steve, he loves Chalk so much and has been so worried about her too!

Jen xx

 

[JimD]

ray:



all paws crossed!

 

[pumpkinandwhiskersmom]

Thinking of you and Chalk! We'll be praying!

 

[pumpkinandwhiskersmom]

Thinking of you and Chalk! We'll be praying!

 

[LuvaBun]

Poor Chalk - this problem just won't go away, will it? Unfortunately, it does sound like they may need to do another surgery (though I'm hoping with all my heart that they don't).

At least you've got great vets, Jen, and that is always a bonus. Let us know what they say.

Thinking of you all

jan

 

[Bo B Bunny]

With all of those abcesses and stuff on her.... that could have prevented the inside part to heal (there's a good chance she had some there also.

Definitely something to have checked.

 

[Marietta]

mouse_chalk wrote:
And thank-you Marietta, what you put was what I thought was my general understanding about abscesses in bunnies, although I hadn't thought about the pressure being put on external abscesses to 'drain' them causing an internal abscess... I don't know if that's the case here or not, but another internal abscess rupturing with Chalk is something I want to avoid at all costs, so just to be on the safe side, do you think I should maybe just clean it this evening and not try to squeeze them? Until we go to the vets in the morning that is...[unquote]



Sorry for the delayed reply, but I switched off my laptop around 22:00 yesterday and didn't have the chance to read you above post.

Pressure on an external abscess does not create an internal abscess. It is just that if an internal abscess is pre-existing, then pressure on the spot could make it burst, if it is big, "mature" and its walls are thin. So, don't freak out, this is not an every-case scenario. You don't know if there is any internal abscess at all, since no ultra-sound or x-ray has been performed. You know, it is common for abscesses to form near wounds (and the surgery incision is a wound). But, maybe this little lump you indicate in the photo could be a sature or a stitched skin part.

In regard to pus aspiration, there are vets who suggest it and there are vets who don't, because they think it doesn't help much, as the pus re-fills the cavity again. In regard to surgery, this is something for your vet to decide. Maybe he/she will opt for a very agressive treatment first.

Why don't you take a look at our Library section and, especially, the very successful protocol of Marcy Moore about Bicillin treatment of abscesses?

Edited to add the relevant thread from our Library: http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=11791&forum_id=10

And this is Marcy Rosenfield-Moore's article about abscess treatment without a surgery, with the long-term use of injectable Bicillin. She is an extremely nice lady, too. I'd contacted her when I had my abscessed bunny and she was an angel!
http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~jwmoore/bicillin/bicillin.htm

Please revert with the vet's evaluation.

Marietta

 

[mouse_chalk]

Thanks guys,

We just got back from the vet. It wasn't James or Liz, our regular vet up there, but the one who performed her surgery last month. She's not as friendly as James or Liz, in that she doesnt' talk to us on their level (they know that we understand stuff so they explain it properly) but she's still good in my opinion.

Anyway, she recommended surgery. She's fairly sure that the lumps are encapsulated absceses under the skin, as they aren't attached to either the skin, or anything underneath, you can sort of push them around? The surgery is scheduled for tomorrow, we are taking her in at 8-9am with a 'packed lunch' for her to eat when she comes round...

They didn't perform any x-ray or ultrasound though, is this ok? I must admit I had expected it, but then she did have an ultrasound 10 days ago....

I'm SO worried about it... I just hope and hope that she'll come through ok...

P.S Marietta, thanks for correcting me, I understood that when I read it, but then typed it up wrong, there was a lot going on at the time!