Nasal Discharge and Motion Sickness

[Amy27]

Thanks Sas for your help. I really appreciate your fast response because it was freaking me out and I wasn't sure what to do.

I got her all cleaned up. She is not a happy bun right now lol. When I was cleaning her back feet I noticed that she has 2 spots on each back foot, in the same spot where the hair is gone. The skin doesn't seem to be broken down. Is that normal? She is on carpet.

I am going to clean her area and I will take the litter out of her litter box. The Little Bunny had sludge before but the vet didn't think it was anything to be concerned about because it was such a small amount. She just wanted to check it once a year at her yearly appointment. I plan to take her in Friday when I get paid and get lots of tests done. So hopefully I can find out then exactly what is going on with her. I hope it isn't anything serious. Dealing with Chase and my sick cat, I don't think I can handle any more. Please send good thoughts our way that the tests come back normal. I don't know what I will do if they don't. I really am at my limit, emotionally and financially.

 

[Maureen Las]

Amy27 wrote:

I was cleaning Little Bunny's cage and noticed she had some loose stool. I noticed she kept licking her butt or doing something down there, so I flipped her over and she is really red and inflammed down there. I am confused about why she would be irritated down there. She had normal poops last night to. Should I give her a butt bath? She doesn't have poop stuch down there.

I don't know what the pieces in this puzzle are . When is the vet herself back Amy?
Is it urine scald...?

 

[Pipp]

A lot of ailments are 'opportunistic', which is to say they become bad when the rabbit is stressed (medically or otherwise) and the immune system is weak. So one thing can lead to another.

I hope she's feeling better soon! Meanwhile, get her to drink as much as you can.

And the spots are probably mild sore hocks, they'll get those from carpet. Keep an eye on it. Maybe try grass mats on the carpet. Bag Balm is a product used for irritated cow udders that works well for sore hocks and urine scald.

WHat's her diet like? You may want to increase low-calcium veggies like lettuce and decrease pellets.


sas :expressionless:

 

[Amy27]

On Friday they said the vet will be back tomorrow. I can afford a vet visit tomorrow, but I can't afford all the tests I want run. This vet is very expensive and I think it will be $600-$700 ust from calculating what they charged for tests to be run on Chase.

Most of what was on her was diarrhea I think. There was som urine also but on her feet it appeared to be diarrhea. She had diarrhea twice last night and I don't know what she did in it but it was smeared everywhere. I had to throw her condo away because it was everywhere. So I am not sure if it was urine scald. I have never seen urine scald before to really know though. Her butt wasn't really dirty, it was her feet. She even had the tops of her front feet all nasty.

Sas, she doesn't get pellets or high calcium veggies because of Chase's bladder stones. I feed them both the same thing.

I will keep an eye on her feet and also have the vet look at them.

She gets unlimited Timothy hay and I got Orchard hay I think it was from Kleenmama's that I am mixing with the Timothy. She also gets greens twice a day. But she doesn't usually eat her morning greens.

Neither of my rabbits are big water drinkers. Drives me crazy. I have tried flavoring their water and everything. That is one reason they get so many veggies. I also soak the veggies for atleast an hour so they get lots of water from it.

I feel like I am doing something wrong that they are both sick all the time. I just don't know what I could be doing wrong. They are both at the vet all the time. The vet knows their living conditions and what I feed them and there doesn't seem to be any issue but I would think there would have to be a reason they are both so sick. I don't think this is normal.

 

[Pipp]

If she had normal poops as well as the diarrhea, best to keep her on hay and water for 24 hours or so. Gas meds and tummy rubs may ward off further upsets if she's looking like she's uncomfortable.

Do they go outside at all? There are so many environmental issues as well as parasites, etc, that it could be anything. Or nothing -- the luck of the draw.

Things like mycotoxins from bad feed or raccoon roundworm or
whatever will present with a large variety of symptoms. And to be honest, you can't even test for things like that.

Try changing everything from your veggie supplier to hay to pellets. I'm not sure it's documented or even true, but after seeing the wildly different nutrient contents of plant matter from one field to another much less one area to another, it's not out of the realm of possibility to me that one field may be harbouring a pesticide or organism that just isn't detectable by anything but a rabbit's system, who knows.

Is there any time they've been healthier or unhealthier than any other time?

In the case at hand, I'm still not convinced the nasal discharge was explored well enough to begin with. If antibiotics seems to help, then maybe there is a tooth root or other infection going on. If at any time the antibiotics helped the symptoms, it could be she just wasn't on them long enough.

If that's the case, forget the tests and just go back on antibiotics?


sas :?

 

[Pipp]

PS: It really may be 'something in the water', given that Chase had stones, I wonder if filtered water would help. Hmmm...

 

[Amy27]

Sas,
Most of this started about 2 years after I moved to a new condo. That is the only thing I can think of. A lot of stuff obviously changed when I moved. Their environment, where I was buying thier veggies and the water. I have tried filter water and bottled water with no change. I buy their veggies from several different stores, depending on which one has the best quality. The last year has been one sickness after another. Before that they were rarely sick. Chase had some runny poop once and it cleared up in a few days. I had taken her to the vet and got some meds for her bottom. Little Bunny had a really bad experience being spayed. That is all. Since January of this year, I have been to the vet with one of them at least once a month. They don't go outside at all. I can't think of anything else that has changed. I changed the hay supplier about 6 months ago from store bought hay to kleenmama's. But Chase's issues started before I changed.

I agree that the nasal discharge was not explored properly. At first I just agreed with the vet that it was probably the Bordetella Little Bunny was diagnosed with a few months ago. When she was diagmosed, it was cultured. But it wasn't this time. I will not agree to any antibiotics unless she is cultured again. She hasn't even had any discharge since I took her in last Friday.

I am going to have them run several tests. I want x-rays done of her head/teeth, bladder/stomach area, nasal culture, blood work, and deep ear culture. If you can think of any other tests I should have done, please let me know. I would rather have them all done now so we can get to the real issue, whatever it is and get it taken care of.

What exactly is Domitor that your vet uses for the head x-rays? I am real cautious about what they use to put Little Bunny under because of the issues she had after she was spayed was due to the type/method of anesthesia they used. Is it something that is injected? I will never let them use anything on her that is put up her nose. That is where she had the issues after her spay. They damaged some tissue in her nose/throat area from shooting anesthesia up her nose. For a year it sounded like she couldn't breathe.

 

[Pipp]

Domitor is an injectible (IM or IV), but I'm backing off recommending it. I first researched it three or four years ago when it was relatively new and very well received, but now I'm seeing some vets concerned about the slowing heart and respiratory rates (as well as the commonly used drug to bring them out of it is being blamed for some slow recoveries), so it's likely a case-by-case thing. There are disadvantages to gas as well.

My vet likes it because he said he can control it better than gas, but I don't trust any one source about anything, I'd be more comfortable looking into it further.

It could be that the problems started when you moved to the new condo, or it could be that both bunnies had different problems that developed into other problems, so hard to know.

I don't trust chemical carpet cleaners, any pesticides (even ones used years previously) or much else. (As much as Snopes seems to have totally dispelled fear of using the Swiffer map with their (company-fed) urban myth buster when I know that every time I have used it ALL of my pets have thrown up, gone off their food or gotten depressed, I don't trust that either).

The more I learn the less I realize I know.

sas :expressionless:

 

[Pipp]

PS: Always suspicious when the same area is involved. The nasal and possible inner ear or neurological issue may be related to the anesthetic, or vice-versa.

Where there's smoke there's fire?


sas :expressionless:

 

[tonyshuman]

I'm sorry I don't really have anything to add. Your plan sounds good. I'm sorry that so many bad things are going on with you guys. One thing I can think of for the water is that there are tests for aquariums for calcium. You could use that to see how much calcium is in the water. However, since you tried the other types of water without success, and the test would just tell you how fish would do in the water, it might not be worth it.

HUGE hugs to you guys. I'm so sorry that everything is so difficult all at once. I'm rooting for you all...

 

[Amy27]

Thanks Sas for explaining the Domitor.

Thanks for the kind words Claire, I really appreciate it. I companies will come test your water for free hoping you will buy their product. I looked into that but then when I got the filter I never followed through. I really should call them again.

Thank goodness the vet was back today. I spoke with her and she wants me to give Little Bunny a break before bringing her in. She gets really stressed going to the vet and they don't want me to bring her in unless I have to until her system has some time to get back to normal. So I am taking her in next friday. They are going to do the x-rays of her head and bladder/stomach area at that time. She is also going to check her ears and do another culture of her nasal discharge. I told the vet I don't want her put on any meds unless a test is done showing she needs it. So it sounds like we have a good plan.

Little Bunny is eating better and better everyday. She didn't have any runny poops last night.

 

[Maureen Las]

Amy ..I'm sorry that you are going through so much sickness with your buns (hugs)
I'm glad that Little Bunny is eating better and doesn't have diarrhea tonight but I think that it's a great idea to get a really thorough exam to try to find out what is causing all this...
it will be interesting to get all those test results back after Fri.
I hope that she does OK until then...ray:
Maureen

 

[Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears]

Amy I've followed your thread but never have an useful answers.

Just wanted to say that I think you are a wonderful Slave to Chase and Little Bunny. I'll keep your bunny's in my thoughts that they continue to improve.

I know it's stressful taking care of sick bunnies. Your doing a great job!

:hug::hug1

 

[JadeIcing]

I think running all those test are the best thing possible. That way you can attack whatever is messing with her. Good luck.

 

[Amy27]

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond. I wasn't able to have all the tests run on Little Bunny. I didn't realize the x-rays on the head and teeth were $500. So I told the vet what I could spend ($600-$700) and asked what tests she felt were most important. So we did the head and teeth x-rays and did the ear culture. Everything came back good. The teeth x-rays showed one side is getting close to the end of the socket so in a year or so I may have to have her teeth done on that side, but it isn't anything that should be causing problems right now. So for now she is eating great and acting like herself so I am going to hold off doing the other tests unless I see problems. We also decided not to put her on antibiotics, which caused this whole issue, as I haven't seen any nasal discharge. The vet thinks maybe something in the home is causing the discharge, but I can't think of anything that has changed. I will keep a close eye on her and if needed will take her back for the rest of the tests that I wanted to have done.

Thank you guys for all your help and support.

 

[tonyshuman]

OOF that's expensive. I'm glad you got the x-rays and things seem to be better right now. I wish we could figure out what it was that seems to be allergic to... Keep us updated if there are changes. You're such a good bunny mom!