My Oreo was prescribed Amoxicillin

[Nadezhda]

So I saw that one of my 9 yr old lop/dwarf's nipples was swollen. The closest vet (of the two in town) gave us a $60 (CND) walkin, where he prodded her and pronounced cancer. Later that week she was put in for a lump removal surgury. We paid for 2 doses of the isoflurane, putting her under for a total of a half hour. The total for the sugury, again in Canadian, was $150.

And then came the $15 sfor and antibiotic. Amoxycillin trihydrate. 1ml twice daily for 14 days.

I managed to read about different ways to give bunny the antibiotic before a health problem of my own gave me vertigo, so I didn't have the ability to look up amox if I had thought to.

Oreo woke up from the surgery and was cleaning herself when I got there. She was so happy to see me, she dragged my arm into the baby-basket she was in so she could sit on it. When she got home, she drank and ate and did normal bunny things. She showed no difference in her ol' running around routine.

The amox was given to Oreo from the 2nd of Feb to the 12 before I stopped. It was getting really hard to feed it to her, as she noticed it mixed into banana, and would refuse to swallow it, letting it drip out of her mouth. On the 13, she got her stitches removed. When the nurse came back, she asked me if I had noticed bunny's loose stools. I lifted bunny up and saw that she had indeed had loose stool on the towels in the basket.

Bunny seemed to be normal the past few days, but yesterday seemed a teensy bit lethargic, and pretty lethargic today. I flipped her over and trimmed some of the matting on her bum, and will try to find a de-mat comb thinger tomorrow. Afterwards, she didn't want to run around as I cleaned her cage, and stayed in the cage once it was cleaned. She did eat a bunch of lettuce, however. I haven't noticed any other signs of sickness.

I'm going to go to the vet tomorrow and bitch at them, then I'm taking all my recipets and a friend to the vet downtown to see if they would have done anything different. I'm definately writing a letter to the newspaper, once I'm calmed down a little more.

Anyway, I'm wondering if there's anything else I can do for my bunny in the stead. She doesn't like yogurt, for the probiotics, and I'm not sure I can find a probiotic here. I've heard mango and papaya are good for digestion, and I'm wondering if bits of those along with bunny's usual veggies. I'm a little worried, as she hasn't eaten any hay or commercial food since I cleaned her cage, only the lettuce I put next to her on top of her hutch.

I'm tired and I rant. I'll check back tomorrow morning before I rampage town, and try to convince myself that burning down the Kermodi Vet. Hospital would be a bad bad idea. A bad illegal idea. : (

 

[Nadezhda]

I just read
http://www.medirabbit.com/Unsafe_medication/Unsafe_treatment.htm
And I will print this stuff out, shove it in the face of that nurse and demand the treatment, free of charge.

She is doing an occasional bunny purr chew, but I will still give her tummy a good rub before I go to bed.

 

[naturestee]

:shock::shock::shock:

I'd also recommend that you find a better rabbit vet and that you file a formal complaint.

That article is good- I hope it helps.

I would stay away from fruit right now as the sugars can make the diarrhea worse. If she isn't eating on her own, you can make a mush out of her pellets and feed it to her with a syringe. You'll want to syringe water into her, too. If you can find something like Pedialyte (drink for babies with diarrhea), it would help keep her hydrated.

You could try looking for Bene-bac in a pet store. It's a probiotic made for birds, cats, and dogs, but from what I can tell it's all the same formula. Only give her a little bit every day- about the size of your pinky nail. That's about what was prescribed for one of mine. She's 2 pounds, so adjust up as you need to. I'm not a huge fan of probiotics but in this case she just needs some kind of good bacteria.

Please keep us updated. I will be thinking of you and Oreo.

urplepansy:

 

[HoneyPot]

Hi Nadezha,

I'm really sorry to hear about your bun. I read the link you posted, and for this part:

oral or SC electrolyte solution, to avoid dehydration and compensate for the massive loss of electrolytes, due to diarrhea.

you can give her some Pedialyte (found in the drug store in the baby medication section).

If she is eating the lettuce, keep giving it to her (not iceberg, just romaine and other dark leaf lettuces). Try some cilantro and other fragrant herbs. Make sure they're wet when you give them to her - will get some more fluids into her. Try to get her to eat as much hay as you can and some canned pumpkin (good source of fibre).

Take her to a rabbit savvy vet asap - if your first vet didn't know amox was bad for the bun, you may want to trytheothervet - make sure they deal with bunnies. Here is a list for rabbit savvy vets in Canada... not sure if any are in your area.
http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/PB_vets.html

You can also try syringe feeding her a pellet slurry (pellets and warm water, maybe mix in some pumpkin) and get the pedialyteinto her.

I'm sure a rabbit savvy vet will give you something to help re-populate the bacteria in her digestive tract. My bun Misty stopped poopingwhen she get a shot of Penicillin (whichI've been told by my vet and others isnot harmful if it is injected), but she stopped pooping and the probiotic is what brought her around.

I'm sure others here will have some advice.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the bun.

___________
Nadia


EDIT: posting at the same time as Naturestee

 

[naturestee]

HoneyPot wrote:

EDIT: posting at the same time as Naturestee

:thumbup

Nadezhda, you might also want to print this out and take it in with you:
http://www.medirabbit.com/Unsafe_medication/dangerous_antibiotics.htm

And this:
http://www.rabbit.org/journal/1/amoxicillin-warning.html

 

[Nadezhda]

she keeps doing a head tilty thing - I'm on the phone with the vet. I'm on hold, after I told her that amox was toxic for bunnies

i'll print that stuff out. the nurse is going to try and find the doctor, in the meantime, I'll print that stuff out a get oreo ready for the trip to the vet.

 

[naturestee]

Do you mean her head is twisting to the side? That's usually a sign of ear infection or neurological problems. Have them do a blood test too, to check her kidney and liver function. Sometimes the first intestinal bacteria to come back are bad, and when they overgrow they can produce toxins affecting the liver and kidneys. The test itself if commonly done.

 

[Nadezhda]

When she did the head tilt, it was when I was trying to feed her greens, and moving everything in her cage around. It happened when she was tring to swallow. Since then, maybe half an hour ago, it hasn't happened. I waved my fingers around both of her eyes and they both closed. I'm thinkin and hopin it was just a muscle spasm. Now that I've got her on the padded top of her hutch, she seems relaxed and calm, with both ears stickin' up listening to me type. She didn't seem like she had been drinking, so I filled a big cap with water and put it next to her, along with an offering of lettuce, celery and carrots, and even some alfalfa hay, just to see if she'll eat anthing. She took a few bites of banana, and is turning over to drink alot in the cap, then semi-sprawling, relaxing.

So the asshole phoned me. The 'vet'. He told me that amoxicillin is the most often prescribed medication for bunnies he knows of, he has books describing the exact doses. It's safe for humans, he says, but he would never feed it to small hamsters or gerbils or anything. He then offered to inject fluid into her nape free of charge. I asked him who told him it was safe, and he said 'the national vetrinarian association' or some sh*t. He called amoxicillin a penicillin.

The other vet in town was closed for lunch. I'll phone again later to see if they have any advice, or know of somewhere where I can go or write to to get "Dr David Farkvam" reprimanded in the very least.


I have frozen pumpkin that I scooped out fresh and froze myself. It that ok to give to bunny? Or should it be cooked first? If bunny still isn't eating in a few hours, I'll make some slurry and feed it to her.

She's still sorta lethargic. A few day ago, I put a handful of bunny pellets in her dish, and she gave me a nasty bite. Today I took out a lots of her bedding to look for the (nonexistant!) poop, right in front of her, and she barely blinked. Just now, I prodded her tail, and all she did was raise her head.

 

[Nadezhda]

A guy came by to drop off a guitar he had fixed, who is friends with Farkvam, and tried to get me to go visit and get another checkup because "He phones me up to cry about how some lady had him look at her wild cats and one died"

I'm going to give the sheets I printed out to his nurse lady, and maybe she can keep him from prescribing poison.

 

[Nadezhda]

If I bonk her in the face enough with a bit of lettuce, she'll get annoyed and eat it I prodded some alfalfa into her mouth, and she's taken a few bites. *hucks the alfalfa and grabs the timothy* My mom has to go out and get x-rays, so I'll get her to get pedialyte and canned pumpkin. For now, maybe I'll turn the television on and keep prodding my bunny's mouth with food.

Sorry for being a panicky uber-poster. I promise to become less of a panicknoob once bunny starts pooping and biting me again.

 

[TinysMom]

You've gotten some great help here - I just want to add one thing.

I'd be using (if you can get it) NON-FLAVORED pedialyte to get some electrolytes and fluids into her. She doesn't need the sugars from the flavored kind....

Peg

 

[naturestee]

I'm not sure who you report vets to- maybe their national organization? He is obviously behind the times. That second article I posted talks about how some vets do still prescribe amoxicillin and think it is safe because the rabbits don't always die immediately, and the owner doesn't report the death. They probably think the bunny died from the original problem and not the medicine. But the bulk of veterinary articles now state that amoxycillin and all other oral "cillin" drugs are dangerous for rabbits because the kill off the good intestinal bacteria.

Don't worry about posting a lot- you should have seen me when Mocha was in stasis!

Pam, I'm curious if anyone actually had problems with flavored Pedialyte? From what I can tell the unflavored and flavored versions both have the same amount of calories. An 8 oz bottle has only 24 calories- less than a cup of many vegetables. The only difference I can see is a small amount of fructose (fruit sugar) in the flavored, which is probably made up for by extra dextrose (blood sugar) in the unflavored. In any case, Mocha loved the apple flavor!

 

[Nadezhda]

The problem is, he's a good vet, he's just an idiot when it comes to bunny biotics. *is torn*

 

[naturestee]

Nadezhda wrote:

The problem is, he's a good vet, he's just an idiot when it comes to bunny biotics. *is torn*

That's actually not unusual. Some people take their dogs and cats to one vet, and their rabbits to another. Vets didn't start treating rabbits until fairly recently, and unfortunatly many don't know very much about them.

 

[naturestee]

I just saw that your vet just offered to inject the medicine instead. Amoxycillin and penicillin are pretty safe for rabbits when they are injected. It's the oral version that causes problems because it wreaks havoc with rabbit intestines. Although she needs to heal from this, first.

 

[Nadezhda]

Not inject medicine, inject fluid, like water.

 

[TinysMom]

naturestee wrote:

Pam, I'm curious if anyone actually had problems with flavored Pedialyte? From what I can tell the unflavored and flavored versions both have the same amount of calories. An 8 oz bottle has only 24 calories- less than a cup of many vegetables. The only difference I can see is a small amount of fructose (fruit sugar) in the flavored, which is probably made up for by extra dextrose (blood sugar) in the unflavored. In any case, Mocha loved the apple flavor!

I've never had problems with it at all and usually have used flavored (they love the fruit flavor here). BUT someone else pointed out that the fructose in the flavored pedialyte might cause problems - especially (I think - I don't remember for sure) if stasis is an issue? Due to the sugar maybe?

I honestly don't remember - and I keep both kinds on hand - flavored and unflavored.

Peg

 

[Nadezhda]

I made a slurry of her pellets, timothy hay , pumpkin, and a little banana, and she loved it. I eye-dropped her water, too. I had to leave for a few hours, and when I cam back, she had a really stinky poo stuck to her butt. I picked the poo off with a tissue, and she's sitting in my lap right now. Problem it, she refuses to eat any lettuce, carrot, or slurry. It's a fight to get her water : (

Maybe she's not hungry anymore? Anyway, earlier when she was eating, she would only eat pellets that had been soaked in water for a little while. She is an old 9 yr old bunny, so could she just not want to eat hard things from old age?

Hopefully she will eat something soon. When I was gone, she only had a few bites of lettuce that I put right beside her.

 

[Nadezhda]

Oreo kept makin' big wet smelly poo for a while after I picked her up. She's sitting on a towel on my lap, resting, and I can feel her bunny purr when I pet her head. She's eating a little bit, and is much more alert.

So the veterinarian is close friends with my moms friend, and he phoned up the friend and was talking about how worried he was for this sick bunny and how upset I sounded, and gave instructions to friend to give to my mom to give to me on how to take care of her.

I already knew and was doing most of what he was doing, from my own knowledge and the great help I've gotten here. Friend said I ought to show bunny by when the vets open to ease Vet's mind. Maybe Monday, if I have enough time between classes. If I do go, it will be with a little pack of papers on the danger of amox. , and an ultimatum: stop using amox, or I will write lots and lots of letters! I will write so many letters, that if the authorities don't do something, tree-hugegrs will!

Anyway, I smell something stinky, so I'm going to disturb bunny from her happy-sprawl to wipe up some more icky poo. I changed towels because she urinated too. Yay for yucky bunny things! Stuff is moving in there! Oo, she even roused herself to scratch at the towel before laying down again.

Yay.

 

[aurora369]

Hi,

I'm so sorry to hear about all the trouble you're going through.

I noticed you live in BC, I live in Vancouver, I don't know if you live in the Fraser Valley or somewhere else, but here's a link to find a bunny vet in BC:
http://members.shaw.ca/cocoasun/CanadianRabbitVets.htm#British Columbia

Maybe you could get one of the rabbit savvey vets to contact your vet and offer to give rabbit support? I know sometimes vets in countries that don't have access to rabbit material will have a vet in another country walk them through the process over the phone.

--Dawn