Jayne and Kaylee

[pbheather]

Every day I go to check on the cages, make sure their still pretty clean, the hay and water is filled, and if they need pellets, food, etc. When I fill Kaylee's cage with bedding, she immediately digs in it and pushes it all to the edges of the cages, leaving the bottom bare. I don't understand why she does it. Jayne doesn't. Every day, the little bowl her pellets are in is filled with bedding.

 

[pbheather]

I've been seeing Jayne grooming Kaylee's face through the bars of the cage. Does this mean their bonding? Does it mean that she's submissive to him since she's laying down? It's a breakthrough. I'm hoping he'll lay down next and let her groom him.

He's doing it of course when he thinks I'm not watching. If he hears me not doing something on my computer he runs away from her, or just stops grooming her.

 

[pbheather]

Today, I tried to brush the buns. Jayne doesn't really seem to shed, but I noticed Kaylee had groomed herself and clumps of black hair were all around the back of her cage. Jayne didn't let me pick him up. It might be from when I leave him out all the time and pretty much leave them alone even when I'm sitting on the floor. Kaylee's in her pen, so I don't worry about her getting into trouble or Jayne getting to her.

After chasing Jayne around the pen, I finally caught him in his cage and took him over to the couch. He struggled, and I had to hold him for a little while before putting him on my lap and brushed him. He bit me! I have a little bruise on my arm from it, even though I had a sweatshirt on!

I got Kaylee real easy, and she struggled a little, but as long as she was in the crook of my arm, she didn't move. I brushed her, and then put her back in her cage. And now Jayne is doing some binkies so I don't think he's too traumatized from the experience.

 

[pbheather]

I took Jayne to the vet today to get neutered. I'm kinda scared, cause I've read about rabbits dying because the intubation tube activated some reflex in the throat that causes the heart to stop. But the nurse at the vet assured me they'd just done a rabbit a few weeks ago and he turned out just fine. I don't know how Kaylee will react though, smelling like the vet's office. I think it'll turn out all just fine. I'm picking him up after work, and they're supposed to call me around lunch to give me an update on how the surgery went. My fingers are crossed.

 

[tonyshuman]

I'm sure he'll be fine. He looks just like my boyfriend's bunny Benjamin and it sounds like he binkies like him too! Feel free to ask for advice, particularly in the Infirmary, about any post-neuter questions. However, I'm sure he'll be just fine. He's plenty young enough to heal, and the vet sounds reasonably experienced. I have not heard of this intubabtion/heart attack thing, so it sounds like it may be bogus.

 

[pbheather]

I got Jayne home. He seems fine, moving around some and investigating his new exercise pen which he will inhabit most of the time now, when he's not in his cage. I noticed, though, that he seemed really hungry. I gave him some kale (he really really likes the stuff) and he gobbled it down. I gave him a carrot and he ate like half already. I gave the vet nurse pellets to give to him after he woke up because he was there all day (I didn't get off work until 5 pm). I don't think they fed him, or gave him water, cause the water bottle isn't any less than what it had been this morning. He hasn't drank any yet, but he's not a big drinker. I don't think he'll go back to that vet. They told me to fast him all night and all morning, when I read that buns need constant food and water to keep their digestive system going. I also read that they need to eat as soon as they wake up. The other vet I've taken Kaylee to in Springfield seemed a little more in tune with rabbits, and told me only not to feed her the morning I bring her in, then to give them food to feed her when she wakes up. I think I'll taking both to that vet from now on.

 

[tonyshuman]

It's great that he's eating. I agree that the vet might not be the best choice in the future. Did you get pain meds for Jayne?

 

[pbheather]

No, they didn't give any. They just said to keep him pretty confined, I think so he doesn't rip open the sutures. I've been reading articles and blogs and forums and they all say that a bun is better off with meds. I'm not sure. He's already eating and drinking, and he's been moving around some and investigating his new pen, but now he's kinda huddled in the corner. Should I call my vet about the meds?

 

[pbheather]

Yea, don't know where that bald spot on his eye came from. Ack, I am very not happy with this vet! I'm gonna call them tomorrow about the meds, but if the bald spot gets worse, I'm gonna talk to them about it. Heck, I may talk to them about it anyways. There is no reason why he should have a bald spot that wasn't there this morning. It's RIDICULOUS!!!!

 

[tonyshuman]

There are some bunnies that do ok without pain meds following a neuter, but it's rare. You can also apply ice for 10min at a time, up to 3x a day to help. I think if he's acting upset or not eating tomorrow, you should ask for meds. They often give them a long-lasting anesthetic before they send the bunny home, but that only lasts less than 18 hours.

 

[pbheather]

Thank you so much for your help. I know you've been giving tips on my infirmary thread as well. I work from 9 to 5 so idk if the ice pack 3x a day would work, but I am going to confine him to just his cage. I'm gonna try to put the heating pad in his cage, and call the vet in the morning. If they can't do meds, I'll do some more research on human meds and buns. I want him to be healed as soon as possible.

 

[pbheather]

I woke up this morning and checked on Jayne. He seems to be feeling better today. Last night, he lay on the heating pad. He is moving around better, but he's a little slow. And he groomed Kaylee, so maybe he's feeling better. It says on the vet website that they give pain meds depending on the extent of the procedure. I may call them anyway and ask why I wasn't given pain meds for him.

 

[pbheather]

Just called the vet. They said they don't usually give pain meds to rabbits because of how sensitive they are to the meds. They said as long as he's eating and drinking, he should be fine, but if there's any sudden change, that then they may give some. So, he doesn't act real painful right now, just sore.

 

[tonyshuman]

Well, that cements it. The vet knows squat about rabbits. Sorry I don't mean to sound too harsh, but there's no evidence rabbits are more sensitive to pain meds than any other species. They have to take Metacam with food and water in their system, but that's the same for any animal. Even humans aren't supposed to take NSAIDs like metacam and ibuprofen on an empty stomach or when they're dehydrated for the same reasons. They do just fine on the narcotic pain meds, like tramadol and buprenorphine. Of course some bunnies are a bit "zonked out" on these meds due to some psychotropic effects, but that's the same for all animals that take these meds, including people! If your vet won't give you any meds, that's all you can do. I personally would just plain insist on them, at least Metacam (mneloxicam), or find a different vet who'll give them to you.

 

[pbheather]

Well, he doesn't really act like he's in pain, and I've been keeping him in his cage. He hasn't eaten his veggies from this morning, though and that worries me some. Usually, he eats them quickly. He seems alert, though, and he was moving around a little. I left the towel in his cage for a little more cushion and he's been laying on it.

 

[pbheather]

No, you weren't harsh. It's true. The vet knows nothing about rabbits, and I only took him there because it was convenient. I should have researched more and seen other vets in Springfield, but everyone makes mistakes. I just need to watch him, and make sure he keeps eating and drinking. If not, I'll take him up to the vet I've gone to for my female, who seems a little more in tune with rabbits.

 

[tonyshuman]

It's often hard to find a good rabbit vet. You would think, with how selective vet school admissions are, that there wouldn't be such a thing as a "bad vet", but the problem is that veterinary medicine is constantly changing and it is a lot of work to keep up with all the advances for all of the species. Rabbit medicine in particular has changed a lot in the last 20-30 years, as rabbits have moved from the realm of livestock to that of companion pets. We underestimated their intelligence and ability to feel pain mostly because they instinctively hide weakness and pain to avoid predation.

It's more important how long your vet has been out of school and how much they keep up with continuing education than where they went to vet school in the first place. Don't worry, it happens a lot. Rabbits aren't a huge market, and in Springfield you're pretty close to the heart of farm-land, where rabbits aren't kept much as pets but more often as livestock. It isn't as big a business to treat rabbits there so many vets don't see the point of the cost to keep up with current medicine.

This isn't the worst vet I've heard about, either, unfortunately. We trust vets because they have a degree and usually a good reputation; but that can make us unwilling to question their authority. It's not your fault.

 

[pbheather]

Well, I've called the vet my female went to. They also said they don't like to give rabbits pain meds after surgery because of how sensitive they are. They said as long as he's eating at least some, and if he's moving around a little better, that he should be fine and is just getting over the anesthesia. They didn't want to prescribe any meds without seeing him, but they did say that if he gets worse by tomorrow, to call them. He does seem better today, even was chewing on the bars of his cage like he usually does if he wants out. Last night, he went to chew, then kinda gave up. It was kinda funny, though. He's been urinating, so he's been drinking. I'm hoping he'll get better within the next few days.

 

[tonyshuman]

That's very strange. Are your vets on this list of rabbit-savvy vets compiled by our members, the House Rabbit Society, and other bunny resource websites?

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=11599&forum_id=9

 

[pbheather]

No. The nearest one is in Chicago. It's a 6 hour drive. The one in Springfield knows a little bit more than the one here in Jacksonville, but there aren't many rabbit owners in the area. I mean, I couldn't even find a shelter/rescue that wasn't either past St. Louis or past Lincoln. Those are both at least an hour drive. Maybe I was lazy when I got my second one and didn't drive for a shelter, but I don't want to drive to a vet that's 6 hours away.