HELP!!! I'm really scared about Teacup

[TK Bunnies]

I haven't been on this forum in a while but quick update: Kali was put to sleep this summer because of a tumor behind her eye, Vin is ok and I think Teacup may be dieing! :tears2:

This morning around 2am my dad heard some thumping and thought I was sleep walking, so he got up to see what was going on, there wasn't anything. Then this morning before I woke up he found Teacup hiding under our weightbench by the stairs to my room (I live on the 2nd floor). He carried her up but she seemed sleepy and scared, she also peed on the floor, but he figured she had just been away from her litter box all night and that she had snuck down the steps and got scared (th bunnies are usually afraid of the steps.

Today when I got home from school I went up to check on her, she was in the same place under the bed when I checked her as she was when my mom checked before she left for work this morning. I watched her and she seemed ok, she kept peeing on the floor but she wouldn't really move. She was responsive and would reach her nose out to me, but she was reluctant to move her back feet, and when she did she was sort of wobbily and she streched like she was sore.

A few minutes ago my dad and I went up to check on her and she was all flopped out, she had moved a little and she was panting, her nose is runny and she started peeing lying down on her stomach, she is usually very clean but she has nastey pastey pee and poop down her tail, she also has goo on her stomach, she was lying weird on her right back foot so I touched and moved her toes to see if she'd respond (she'll usually kick), but she didn't even seem to feel it, so I touched her other foot and she tried to get up a hop away, but she seemed unsteady on her feet. Her eyes are clear and her ears are normal temperture.

I'm REALLY scared!!! Teacup was my first rabbit and has been my friend since I was a very little kid.

Here are some facts about her that might help:

Age: 8, she'll be 9 on March 28, 2010

Breed: Mini Rex

Sex: Female (spayed)

Usually very active, not touching food, I put her water dish by eher, but I don't know if she drank anything

PLEASE HELP ME!!! I don't know what to do, I think she may be dieing, but I can't tell, she doesn't seem to be in pain. The vet is closed for the day, so we won't be able to get her in until tomorrow, and I don't know if we can even get her in then....... My dad thinks she may have fallen down the steps, mabey and heart attack, or stroke, mabey she tripped and pulled a muscle, mabey shock?

HELP PLEASE

-TK :cry1::bigtears::tears2::?

 

[Pipp]

Keep her still and warm. If she doesn't feel cold, this is good, but the rest doesn't sound good at all, so sorry.

She may have a sprain or strain, but the messy poop is probably signaling something worse.

If you can syringe feed her warm water without moving her, that would be good, but not if she's feeling cold.

Don't try and make her move.

Have you noticed anything in the past few days like her bum being wet or straining to pee or having small or loose poops? Anything like that?


sas ray:

 

[mistyjr]

:hug:

 

[tonyshuman]

Is there any chance you can get her to an emergency vet? I know the one in Madison sees rabbits. It sounds like she's in a bad place and will need to be stabilized before you even really think about what is causing this and how to treat it.

She probably needs oxygen and fluids immediately.

I also second everything Pipp said.

 

[Pipp]

An ER Vet can give her an infusion of fluids under the skin, antibiotics and put her in an incubator. That's standard ER procedures. It would be good to know her body temperature.


sas ray:

 

[tonyshuman]

If you think you want to treat this without a vet, you will need pedialyte, water, pumpkin puree, gas meds, probiotics, and several feeding syringes. Keep her warm with a warm towel out of the dryer, a heating pad, anything. Give her at least 10cc (1cc=1mL) of pedialyte by oral syringe. Take away all food except hay. Give a dose of gas meds (1-1.5mL) and a gram of probiotic and wait an hour. If she doesn't fight the oral syringe feeding, give a few mL of pumpkin--but only if she's not stressed out by the idea.


edit: I want to add a personal recommendation for Exceptional Care for Animals, formerly Emergency Clinic for Animals, on the Beltline in Madison, depending on how far away you are. I've taken two hammies there in serious distress and they have not balked at working with a less common species and they know their stuff about small animals. I would call ahead and make sure they're ready to stabilize her before you talk about treatment options. Stabilizing would include fluids, incubator, oxygen, heat, that kind of thing.

http://www.emergencyclinicforanimals.com/

edit X2: their exam fee is about $70 just for walking in the door, but it is worth it in my opinion.

 

[TK Bunnies]

Thank you all for the speedy reply.

Just spend a while up there with her, and she seems a lot better, which is odd because it's only been about 30mins.

She moved and even was grooming her face, she was examining the bed around her and said hellow to Vin. I lay down next to the bed to watch her, and she started tooth purring, but she doesn't seem in pain. My dad and I think she has lost bladder control, but she's breathing normal and acting more like herself.

I wish we could go to Madison, but that's about 6 hours away from here :/ All the local vets are closed, the best bet would be in Eau Claire, but I don't think they are open this late.

I'll see if she'll eat something, we don't have pumkin but is there anything else I could try? I'll try a syringe full of warm water and she if she drinks.

Is this good improvment, or just hopeful wishing?

Thank you all soooooooooooooo much for your help!!!!
-TK

 

[tonyshuman]

Ok, it's good that she's moving around and not breathing badly.

What's the deal with her poops? Are they mushy, mucus covered, runny, or normal?

Pumpkin is good but if you don't have it an ok substitution that I've used in a pinch is squash baby food. It's hard to force bunnies to eat, so a liquid food really helps. You can soak some pellets in water and try to force her to eat them.

It may be worth at least a trip to the store to get pedialyte and pumpkin.

I did find a few Eau Claire vets that do emergency visits, if you call and ask. This one also mentions that they work with rabbits:
http://www.eauclaireanimalhospital.vetsuite.com/Templates/Clean.aspx

 

[Pipp]

I wouldn't try feeding her at this point, but the pedialyte, gas meds and probiotics may help.

I've had my mini-rex look that bad from a gas attack, he would urinate on himself, but that should clear up in less than 12 hours.

He wouldn't have the runny poops, though. Unfortunately that can be an 'end-stage' symptom, although if she is still clear-eyed, that's good. Lethargy and the glassy-eyed look is not good.

Hopefully its a back strain or gas.


sas ray:

 

[TK Bunnies]

Ok, I just gave her the water in the syringe and she strech all the way out to reach me (without moving her hindlegs though, she can move them, but she's acting sore). She drank all the water and then twisted around to sniff the leg I was worried about. She's more active then she was a hour ago, and she drank something. So that seems good...

 

[Pipp]

If it is a gas attack, they do snap out of it very quickly. They'll usually start grooming and eating hay minutes after looking like they're about ready to die.

Anything she may have eaten that might have caused gas? Rotted bits on veggies? A house plant?

Definitely give her hay and water, but she doesn't need any food.


sas ray:

 

[tonyshuman]

Also, if you can get a chance, can you try to feel her belly or listen to it? Sometimes the belly's a bit harder and makes gurgling noises during a gas attack.

I've never seen a gas attack that bad--my guys usually act like it's no big deal.

I would also try to feel her legs to see if they feel normal (symmetrical, you can also compare to how Vin's legs feel). If she flinches in a particular spot, that might be the issue.

 

[Pipp]

If it is a back problem, she needs to be kept very still until you can get her in for an x-ray.

It may be both, the pain and stress from a back injury could cause the digestive upset, thus the runny poops and gas.

Or she's still got an upset tummy and wants to keep it pressed to the ground.

Treat for both at this point. As noted, keep her very still, only give her hay and water and pedialyte, gas meds and a probiotic if you have them.


sas :clover:

 

[TK Bunnies]

Ok, she's not glassy eyed and she's not really lethargic anymore.

My mom is wondering if I should try offering her lettuce, since she really loves it to see if she'll eat. I just found some homemade canned pumpkin, I could put it in the blender, should I? Feed her or not?

We don't have a pedialyte.

She's not in pain and she's sort of moving.... I'm going to go see if she want more water

 

[TK Bunnies]

Her poops are normal, and she always has a very noisy stomach.

So you don't think it's a stroke?

 

[tonyshuman]

It sounds like she may be doing ok, at least, for now. It doesn't sound like a "run to the vet" situation anymore.

Back to her poo and urine: could you be more specific? Do you think she had bladder sludge? What was the goo on her belly? Is her nose still runny? The reason I ask is because if she has a GI bacterial imbalance, she could get gas and pain and diarrhea, leading to dehydration and possibly bacterial toxin poisoning. If she has a bladder sludge issue, it's a whole different set of reasons and treatments. For instance, we could recommend you give her a bit of pain medicine--but if she has urinary issues, it might not be good to do that because some pain meds can damage the kidneys.

Here are some pics of bladder sludge:

normal urine:

sludge:

 

[mistyjr]

If she is moving a little there is something wrong.. It could be something happen with her back.. Sounds like the same thing happen to my guy

 

[Pipp]

I've had a few bunnies look horrible with gas, but Dill, also a mini-rex, was always the worst. He'd seriously look lethargic, glassy-eyed, in terrible pain and he'd pee all over himself.

He'd be in the carrier ready to go to the ER in a cab at 4 AM, I'd have my coat on, go to pick up the carrier and he'd be munching away on hay, going 'Oh, hi!'

That said, it did turn out that Dill had pretty advanced stomach cancer. Had he actually made it to the Vet during an attack, it may have been caught in time. The cancer may have been either a partial cause of the attacks (although cilantro seemed to be the main culprit), or maybe it at least made the attacks worse.

Even if she starts moving, I'd get Teacup in for an x-ray.


sas :clover:

 

[tonyshuman]

OK, I would put the food in front of her but not force her to eat it if she doesn't want to. Canned pumpkin puree is fine as it is--no need to blend--just warm it up a tad, they seem to like it better that way.

I'd like to rule out other things before guessing it's a stroke. If she hasn't stopped pooping throughout the whole episode, it might not be gas. If her urine is normal, it might not be sludge (which can be painful). Since the poops are normal, it's probably not a GI bacterial overgrowth. To determine if it was a stroke or not, you'd have to make sure there aren't any other things going on that could have caused her a ton of pain--like kidney/bladder stones, cancer, infection, abscesses, etc. That probably will require a vet visit (but not an emergency one). It's not unreasonable to think that she may have had a stroke, due to her age and I don't see why rabbits couldn't have strokes.

If you can get some water into her, and she eats a bit, and you're pretty sure there aren't any broken bones, cuts, or other bleeding, you could give her some aspirin. But that would be a step much farther in the future than where we are now. If we can guess it was a stroke, aspirin could help.

 

[Pipp]

TK Bunnies wrote:

Her poops are normal, and she always has a very noisy stomach.

So you don't think it's a stroke?

It could be anything from an infection to an injury to an GI tract upset to a neurological event.

I'm also interested in the 'goo' description. A bladder infection or something related could cause the symptoms described I think.

And definitely don't give her anything but hay at this point. The major symptoms she's shown are from gas, it's just that the gas itself is a symptom of something else. She's in no danger of stasis, it hasn't been that long, her GI tract should still be functioning. She's drinking on her own, her tract is moving.

Is she eating hay?


sas :clover: