HELP!!! I'm really scared about Teacup

[tonyshuman]

OK, I guess Pipp and I disagree on whether or not to give food. If there is diarrhea, there should be no food other than hay. If the poop is normal, I think it's safe to put some normal food in front of her to see if she'll eat it.

Sorry that we don't agree, it must be confusing for you!

 

[TK Bunnies]

She won't eat any hay, I offered her some but she just gave me an "are you crazy?" look. She sipped the water, but I don't think she's thristy anymore. She's peeing a lot more then what I think is normal, but I don't know.

Her poops are exactly the same as they always were, not different at all. Here pee when it was coming out was a sort of cream color instead of the usual orangey yellow, but it isn't caked up, actually I can't find it unless I run my hand along the ground (she's far away from a litter box, and she wouldn't use one anyway now if I put one near her. So I don't think there's sludge, but it's hard to tell...

I don't know what the goo on her belly was, at first I was freaked out and I thought it was blood, but when I tried to touch it she rolled over (she HATES having her stomach touched, always has), but it looked like runny poop to me, but I can't see it. She has brown poo all over her tail.

Here nose was just runny, the fur underneith it was wet, but it's dry now and she's not panting.

If I didn't know better and if it wasn't for the fact that she's peeing everywhere and refuses to move her back legs I wouldn't know anything was wrong.

I think we'll wait until tomorrow and see if she's getting better before we take her to the vet, it's getting really late and she seems better then before, not really acting like it requires an ER vist anymore.... what do you think?

Is it ok for now, do I need to do anything else? Anything sound really bad to you? Or is she stable for now?

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP!!!! I love Teacup, she was my 1st rabbit and she really is wonderful, I'm very grateful to you all

 

[tonyshuman]

I agree, that she's probably safe for the night (of course keep an eye on her though!). Since she's still not moving her back legs, it's best to keep her in a small-ish space so she can't go get into trouble--it could be a spinal injury. The only way that kind of injury can definitively be diagnosed is x-ray, and the only treatment other than rest is pain meds and anti-inflammatory drugs. Because of the runny poop that she did have, it may be best to stick with a hay and water diet overnight.

 

[Pipp]

tonyshuman wrote:

If she hasn't stopped pooping throughout the whole episode, it might not be gas.

For the record, pretty much every 'event' that causes stress can cause gas. You can't really go by the output, gassy bunnies can have normal poops, although runny cecals or a GI tract slowdown (or blockage) will invariably be accompanied by gas.

Unless a rabbit hasn't had an appetite for awhile, there is no need to force feed anything. A gassy bunny may re-bloat with some foods, so always best to stick with hay for the short term. Cecal dysbiosis (runny cecals/poopy butt) will always require that the bunnies only get hay and water for the recovery.

If the bunny won't eat hay and hasn't eaten anything for awhile, then pumpkin and fluids is the next best thing.

If the bunny hasn't eaten in quite awhile (24 hours) and they don't have runny cecals, then best to feed them anything you can get them to eat that doesn't involve carbs and sugar. If they do have runny cecals, high fiber like hay, pumpkin or Critical Care is the ticket.

Teacup sound like she has runny cecals and gas, a common pairing. This can be a symptom of a gastric upset, but the upset can be caused by something else.

I'd still guess that its either an injury or a urinary issue, but its just a guess. A neurological problem is possible, so is I think kidney issues. All can cause back end problems.

Keep her warm, still, well-hydrated and get her into the Vet ASAP tomorrow. If she won't eat hay, try pumpkin. If she's pooing normally and doesn't appear to be having any more 'poopy butt' issues, at some point you're going to have to try pellets or veggies, she needs to have some food in her GI tract. I'd guess at this stage the dysbiosis isn't from a GI tract issue, it's a side effect of whatever else she has.

Still try pedialyte, probiotics mixed with pumpkin and, if she still seems uncomfortable and still has poopy butt, some gas meds. I'd steer clear of pain meds unless she's grinding her teeth in pain.


sas :clover:

 

[Pipp]

ETA: Actually, if she isn't moving her back end at all and you think she may have hurt her back, the anti-inflammatory properties of Metacam or Ibuprofen will help, but she has to have food in her stomach to be able to take it. It really depends on how much she's moving her back feet. Loss of bladder control is a symptom of a back injury. A 'slow' back end can be a symptom of a urinary issue.

You did mention she 'thumped' in the middle of the night. She may have been frightened by something and injured her back as a result of that. I'm leaning towards giving her the Metacam/Ibuprofen. Bringing any swelling down will be very advantageous.

 

[TK Bunnies]

Thank you, we think the thump was her falling down the steps.

I'll see if we can take her to the vet tomorrow, my parents work and I have school, so it'll have to be in the afternoon.

We always bring them veggies before we go to bed so mabey I'll bring up some lettuce and put it near her before I go to bed.

 

[Pipp]

Do you have any Baby Motrin or Ibuprofen? I'd really look at giving her some. If chances are its an injury, you really need an anti-inflammatory.


sas :clover:

 

[Pipp]

Lettuce is fine if she's not showing any more signs of gas, it will provide hydration as well as fiber.

The poopy butt may also be a symptom of a back issue. She may have lost control of both her bladder and colon.

Rabbits don't usually fall down stairs, but it is sounding more like a skeletal issue.


sas :clover:

 

[mistyjr]

What kind of lettuce do you give her?

 

[tonyshuman]

How is she today?

 

[TK Bunnies]

I just went up to check on her as I just got off the bus. She was out from under the bed sitting between her waterdish and food bowl. She ate around 3 leaves of lettuce last night, some carrot this morning and possibly pellet food while I was at school. She said hello when I went up there and started tooth purring when I patted her head. She's moving now, but her right hind leg roles when she hops on it and when she moves she streches all the way out and arches her back. She's able to clean her left foot and she seems fine otherwise. Still peeing every minute, no control and there were quite a few poops around where she was sitting (they were smaller then yesterday and a couple were clumpy), but she's eatting and drinking, so that's good. Her temperture seems normal, she doesn't seem in pain now, just sore.

So what now? Call the vet and see if they think I should make an appointment? Give her Ibprofin (If I do that how much? We have 200 miligram pills, should I grind one up?) How would I give it to her? Put it in some water? Is it safe? I'm not sure when she last ate, and I'm sort of scared of dosing her by myself....

 

[TK Bunnies]

Pipp wrote:

Rabbits don't usually fall down stairs, but it is sounding more like a skeletal issue.

That's what really worried me, because she was down stairs on the 1st floor when my dad found her yesterdayand she and Vin live on the 2nd floor, my bedroom. All the bunnies are sort of scared of the stairs and she's only ever been down out of my room 4 or 5 times, Kali's snuck down before but they don't like it. So that's why we were wondering is she had a heart attack or stroke and was by the ledge and fell off...

 

[tonyshuman]

I do think she needs to see a vet soon. It sounds like she may have an injury to the spine that's causing issues with bladder control. If you can get an appointment today, that would be very good. If not, get some baby ibuprofen liquid if you can. If you can't do that, use this drug dosage calculator to determine the right dose for her:

http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/rx/drugcalc.html

It won't be easy to get her to take it, since it will be very bitter if dissolved in water. Also, the materials that hold the tablets together (called binders, mostly talc) will not dissolve. You could try to dissolve it somewhat in pumpkin puree or a tiny bit of applesauce, but I would be careful with the applesauce because it has a lot of sugar.

 

[TK Bunnies]

Thank you for the link, we don't have any liquid ibprofin. I'm not sure how much she ways... Kali was a regular rex and sort of chubby and she weighted 8lbs, Teacup is a light normal sized mini rex, so what do you think she weighs.... mabey 4 lbs, 5?

I'm going to call the vet now and see what they think.

 

[TK Bunnies]

Ok I got an appointment with Dr.Mather at the Eau Claire Animal Hospital for tomorrow afternoon. Hopefully they'll be able to help

 

[tonyshuman]

That's good to hear. If you want, you can estimate her weight, but it may be difficult to cut a 200mg tablet into a dose for her. Sorry I didn't respond sooner.

 

[TK Bunnies]

Once again thank you for all your help!!!

Ok, we took her to the vet yesterday and were pleased to see her hopping around much more easily. Still she was peeing everywhere and there were spots of blood in some of her pee, plus that day I noticed she had a large bulge of skin hanging down around her hips. The vet took an x-ray, she said that Teacup probably fell down the stairs exploring or doing something not all that smart (like leaning over the edge or trying to navigate steep stairs in the dark). The vet said that she had a little bump under her front foot but that was like a bruise: a swelling from the fall. She looked at the bluge in back and said it looked like her bladder and then went and took the x-ray. The bulge was in fact her bladder. The vet said that when she fall she probably hit her belly where the bulge was and damaged the bladder. She said that he bladder tore and that was why there was so much swelling, luckily the urine was walled off somehow. Unfortunately the bladder stone weren't. In the x-ray I personally counted about 18 bladder stones just sort of free floating in her body, they must have left the bladder through a tear. The vet gave us some pain medication and some antibiotics to give her to stabilize her condition. The vet said she should go in for surgery to repair the bladder if it doesn't repair its self on its own, which she said was a possibitiy. The stones she said if she does surgery will be scooped out, but if the bladder goes down in its own the vet said we probably shouldn't try to remove the stones as they don't seem to be causing her pain and she might even reabsorb them, plus she is an old bunny and that is a major surgery. On the bright said that vet was very confident, she's dealt with bladder swellings before I believe and she said she personally thought that the chance of survival would be very high. So she's going in for surgery Thursday if she's not healed by then.

I REALLY like our vet!! I hadn't actually met her before because I was at school when my parents took Kali in. She seems very knowledgeable and honestly cares about the health and mental well-being of her patients. She helped dogs and cats remove stones that escaped like this to, but shes never seen it on a rabbit before. She says she's heard of it but that shes never seen it. She was very confident that she could do the operation, plus she seemed excited to see them and learn more about them, which I think is a positive thing in a vet. Anyway I would seriously recommend the Eau Claire Animal Hospital to anyone in the area, I really like the way the handled her. Also they have 2 separate waiting rooms so you don't have to sit next to a bunch of hungry dogs.

On another note Teacup soon to be 9 years old had nothing wrong with her bones. No signs of hairline fractures or anything, she didn't even really have and arthritis in her hips or knees!!

Thanks again for all the help,
-TK

Whoops I forgot to add, the vet said that it was probably our pellets that was causing such a high level of calcium in her body so she had has switch to a new brand (Oxbow, I've known for a while that it was higher quality I guess I just never really thought ours was all that bad). So we drove around to every pet store until we found the recommended food (which happens to come in a very small bag ) But it was worth it, it honestly smelled better. So we are now limiting the bunnies pellet consumption and slowly switching them over the Oxbow, plus we are giving much more timothy and fresh vegetables.

 

[Pipp]

I'm so glad she's doing better! inkbouce:

If you have a chance, can you type out the contents of the Rabbit Chow so we can put it in the Library?

We like listing as many brands as possible here:

http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=12160&forum_id=17


sas ink iris:

 

[tonyshuman]

Thanks for the update. I don't know much about this personally, but if your vet has dealt with it before, that is good to know. I hope she heals totally and won't have to have surgery. Poor girl!

 

[TK Bunnies]

Ok so Teacup has been doing really well for these past couple days, we're still waiting for her 2nd vet appointment later this week.

After school today I grabbed some cilantro and went up to check on the bunnies. Teacup was panting and breathing hard. I gave her the food and she ate it really fast, she was tooth purring when I sat by her and she doesn't seem in pain but she's breathing REALLY hard! I went to feel her ears to see if she was hot and she's burning up!!!! She is VERY warm, and it's really cold in my house. My room is always colder then the rest of the house and it's nasty and rainy outside, only 37 degrees out. But she is very warm. She was in a different litter box so she may just be hot from moving around and she seems pretty active. But she's very hot. Is this bad? Should I worry? Is there something I should do to cool her down? Is this a sign of infection? :?