Head Tilt-Twinkles

[tonyshuman]

I too think a strong pain med is needed for such a drastic surgery. Tramadol or buprenex might be good. I'm glad you found the problem, but wish it hadn't been such a difficult thing to go through. I can't believe nobody caught it before!

I do not think she should be on motility drugs--at the most, some simethicone, but not reglan or some other drug. I'm not sure how to get her to eat--it may just take time for her to get used to her new mouth, which is of course still very sore. Maureen had some good suggestions there and maybe Haley can recommend some foods for post-op dental bunnies.

Poor baby and poor you. Best of luck for her healing, eating, and pooping.

 

[Haley]

Is the Chloramphenicol an oral medicine? If so, you might ask about something injectible like Bicillin if we're talking about treating an abscess. ChlorPalm is a good strong antibiotic (did your vet warn you about not touching it except with gloves?) but if its oral it wont penetrate the way an injectible drug like Bicillin would.

My Max had a horrible jaw abscess, they are nothing to mess with. Max had to have two major surgeries, one which included removing all front teeth and major debridement of the jaw bone that had been infected.

As others mentioned, your main concern is hydration. I used to syringe Max lots of water and pedialyte to keep him hydrated. For food, I mixed pellets, pedialyte, and pumpkin together with a bit of warm water to create a nice slurry for him. At first I had to syringe it but when he was feeling a little better he would eat it off a spoon. Stay away from baby food when you can use pellets and pumpkin instead- baby food usually has higher sugar and carbs than pumpkin and pellets.

It could be stress thats causing the GI problems. Max had runny poops often when he was very ill- the stress of medicating combined with different foods is what did it I think. Im not a big fan of gut motility drugs if you can avoid it.

Please let me know if theres anything I can do to help. Ive been there, and I know how difficult it is to feel so helpless. Youre doing a great job.

*hugs*

Haley

 

[bpotter2]

Thanks everyone. First Twinkles. Twinkles seemed less active and hiding under the sofa, again. He has been spitting out his meds, probably because the chicken flavoured stuff grossed him out. Now I have the fruit flavoured ChlorPalm, he is probably still in refusal mode. His eyes were a bit teary the last couple of days, as well, which, from past experience happens when I do not get enough meds into him. He was also probably very depressed because of all the disruptions in his routine, not being with Bon Bon and so on.
Bon Bon still refused to eat so has been going in to see the vet everyday to be given fluids and to be fed by the staff. Bon Bon finally made a small poop day 3. We were so thrilled. Funny how a bunny poop can make one happy! Yesterday, she was there from 9 until 7. They were successful but said it took at least 45 minutes each time to get just 20 ml into her. When I fed her last night, she thoroughly enjoyed the fruity Chlorpalm and even sucked at the syringe to get more! The critical care was another matter, she spit it out in disgust. I did manage to get some food in. The last few days have been torture, for Bon Bon, Twinkles and me.
This morning I got up to see both Twinkles and Bon Bon side by side devouring their breakfast! Both eating very well. I think Twinkles is so very happy to have Bon Bon by him and feeling better.
I have to say, ever since we first got Bon Bon, she always sat hunched up like a little ball. She had what we called chipmunck cheeks, thinking how cute she was with her round little face. We just thought this was her natural way, not knowing this was probably due to pain! You should see her now! She holds her head up, sits up straight and hops around with great confidence. She now shows us a slender beautiful face and sleek body. Her personality has changed, too. She was always very docile but now she is fiesty, stubborn, and very animated! Even though she has been through hell, these changes showed up by day 2 after her surgery.
So, today, both Twinkles and Bon Bon seem to feel good and are in high spirits. A day to celebrate!

 

[bpotter2]

Someone mentioned starting a new thread about Bon Bon tooth problem. How do I do that?
ChlorPalm is an oral medicine. We had this debate earlier and due to the fact the vet did not know or want to dilute the injection and because I could not get the needle into Twinkles, very thick skin, Randy suggested ChlorPalm as a good alternative. He said he has had success with this drug with head tilt. As for Bon Bon, the vet just automatically prescribed it. I sure hope I am not one of the small percentage this drug affects because I have repeatedly gotten it all over my upper body. Rejection of having stuff squirted into both buns' mouth resulted in medicine landing on my arms and chest! I wash very carefully afterwards. I did ask about Convenia for Bon Bon, due to her stress at being grabbed every few hours for feeding and meds, but the vet said he was not confident that this drug was appropriate for her. So, we stuck with the ChlorPalm. The vet did say that if she should take a turn for the worse, we would look at other possibilities. At the moment, she is healing very well. Guess we will just have to take it day by day.

 

[bpotter2]

So, another obstacle. The vet treating Twinkles refuses to give me any more ChlorPalm. She says "He has been on it long enough. He will not show any more improvement and I just have to accept that he will not get any better."
He has been on ChlorPalm for about 26 days. I had called to ask her to give me a prescription so I could get the name brand ChlorPalm from another vet. This is what we had to do earlier as they don't carry it. Ever since I have been giving Twinkles the chicken flavoured, then fruit flavoured ChlorPalm from the pharmacy, Twinkles has been getting a soiled bottom. I don't know what the difference is, if any, it just seems suspicious that Twinkles started having a problem when he got the pharmacy meds. The vet dismissed this possibility and thinks he has reached his tolerance.
The vet did reluctantly agree to special order the name brand ChlorPalm for Bon Bon, as the vet treating Bon Bon prescribed it for her for 2 months. These vets are at different locations but belong to the same vet hospital.
I am worried that stopping the meds for Twinkles is premature. I still have enough of the pharmacy stuff for about 2 days. Meanwhile, I have been giving Twinkles some oat flakes to try and curb the mushy bottom.
Any advice?
Kathy

 

[Maureen Las]

To start a new thread (which is a good idea ) you click on the infirmary and on the right upper side of the page are the words "new topic"
click on new topic and then you can write a title and describe what has happened

I just got Twinkles and Bon Bon mixed up and had to rewrite this.
I would check with Randy or Pippre. the duration of the chlor-palm for twinkles. I have only used that drugs as an eye salve and given it now for way over a month.

Can you get probiotics over there . We call it benebac here but it is live microorganisms that you give inbetween the antibiotics to create normal gut flora. You can pm Pipp or Flashy as either person can give you the Canadian name for it

I am wondering if the chlor-palm from the pharmacy has a lot of syrup in it that is upsetting her stomach ..what do you think?

What are twinklles other symtoms now and

yes
make a separatethread for bon bon as it is confusing and you'll get more responses.
if you need more help with this just pm me .
Maureen

 

[Flashy]

I'm sorry things are so rough. I know nothing about Canadian meds/probiotics, so please don't PM me, lol, because I have no idea.

I hope things improve for both of them soon. Tilly was on her antibios for head tilt for over 2 months, and I know Randy has treated for even longer for head tilt, so I can understand your concern about removing the meds.

Keep us updated.

x

 

[Maureen Las]

OOPS!!!

Sorry Flashy
Got countries confused DUH!

Maureen

 

[bpotter2]

Thanks for your response. Twinkles is not 100% I feel he is on the road to recovery but still needs more time on antibiotics. I could be wrong, I am not experienced in this. He is usually stable when he stands and hops. If he is stressed, he rolls such as when I give him meds. He has rolled under the sofa a few times in the last 2 weeks but comes out of it and gets up. His head remains tilted from 3 to 6 o'clock depending on the time of day. Worse at night, although, when he washes his face or eats, he straightens his head to normal postion. He eats well and was pooping well until I gave him the pharmacy meds. He has not ventured past his pad, an area of about 4 x 6 feet except to go under the sofa. He has not asked to go out on the porch or gone into the kitchen.
I just don't understand the vets response. There was no discussion as to what more we could do, possibility of changing antibiotics, nothing. Just a firm refusal. I can't help worrying that if I stop giving him the ChlorPalm, he will regress. It was bad enough that the first vet gave him useless meds and precious time was lost at the very beginning. He might have recovered much more quickly had he been given something appropriate right away. The progress we do have has been hard won. Either way, Twinkles is what is important, not the vet. I am thoroughly disappointed with my experiences with vets.

 

[Flashy]

I really do feel for you. Until I took Tilly to see my vet she received little vet care, and none of it decent, but all of it stole precious time where we could have made her better quicker.

Is there a different vet you could take Twinkles to see? Like someone at the same vet practice? Maybe the vet who saw Bon Bon? (I think they were different?)

 

[bpotter2]

Thanks. Actually, I just made up my mind that we will have Twinkles see the vet Pipp recently recommended. It means starting from scratch, probably, but that's better than doing nothing.
Going to the vet that is attending Bon Bon is probably the reason the other vet was so brusque. Even though I tried her first and neither she nor her partner were in and her receptionist is the one that set up the appointment with them. Anyway, I trust Pipp and she says this vet is an excellent bunny vet.
We shall see what happens. Thanks for your concern.
Kathy

 

[Flashy]

Good luck!

 

[bpotter2]

Just spoke to the bunny vet, Dr Martinez. He will see Twinkles and says the ChlorPalm is good for Head Tilt and will give me more. He wants to give him something to balance his bacteria for good poops. He sounds like he doesn't fool around and knows his stuff. He also reassured me he successfully treats head tilt all the time. I am really looking forward to meeting him!!!
Thanks, Pipp!
Kathy

 

[Maureen Las]

Great news!

 

[Flashy]

Fantastic!

 

[tonyshuman]

Yes! And the mushy poo/dirty bum thing is probably due to the antibiotic harming the beneficial bacteria in the intestines, so it's great that you're going to get him on a probiotic.

 

[bpotter2]

Update! Twinkles went to see Dr Martinez, was given oral Chlorpalm, Chlorpalm eye ointment, Panacur, probiotics and CoQ10. By the time I got him to Dr Martinez, about 5 days after stopping his meds, Twinkles down eye closed shut. I wanted to trust the other vet and thought, okay, I will try stopping his meds and see what happens. Well, what happened was his eye closed up and it has taken this long to have it slightly open again. Apart from that, he is feeling quite well. His tilt is not as severe when bouncing about, although when resting, he still holds his head at about 70 degrees. He has been racing around the house and giving Bon Bon a hard time. It being almost spring and all that, he has become very amorous.
Bon Bon has vastly improved. She asked to go out on the porch yesterday and went out on her own! A first! She has never been out without Twinkles and rarely ever wanted to go. She scampered about, did some sun tanning, sniffed about before returning to devour her lunch, side by side with Twinkles.
I hope Twinkles will continue to improve. I really liked Dr Martinez and am confident he will be our vet from now on. Thanks, again, Pipp!!!

 

[bpotter2]

Forgot to mention, as soon as Twinkles went on the regular ChlorPalm, he stopped having mushy poops. I did not give him the probiotics for a couple of days as I could not figure out how to give it to him, it being a powder. Was not deliberate, but he has not had mushy poops since!

 

[Pipp]

Yah! So glad to hear this, Kathy. And so sorry I missed your call a few days ago, I was so sick with this cold/flu, I couldn't even answer the phone.e (And now I've thrown my back out and I REALLY can't get out of bed -- without a lot of effort, anyway).

But please call again!


sas :bunnydance:

 

[bpotter2]

I was superstitious that if I wrote that Twinkles was doing well, I might jinx it somehow. It is 2:25 AM and Twinkles just started circling again! He was shaky on his feet and just kept going around and around. The top of his head was almost flat on the floor. I don't understand, he was doing so well! This afternoon, both Bon Bon and Twinkles were scampering outside on the porch, enjoying themselves. I picked him up and tried to calm him but he now associates being picked up with getting meds, so that was not very successful. I let him go and he managed to get on his feet and find his way under the sofa, with difficulty and settled next to Bon Bon. He just now came out again and it seems the crisis has passed. He looked alright. What was this?
Kathy