Will het starve on hay only? (soft stools)

[Spikethebunny]

Spike has had instances of soft stool the last week. He has been to the vet, we've analyzed his poop and diet and we determined I was being too much of a sucker lately and offering a few too many snacks (by snacks, it was always either a piece of romaine lettuce or a hay-based pellet).

The vet has said to coax Spike to eat more hay to get his tummy back on track and to decrease/eliminate pellets and lettuce until we don't see any more of those soft poops.

These soft poops seem to always happen at the same time of day (in the afternoon around 2-4pm) and they are usually accompanied by proper poops, and the rest of the time, his poops are the normal ones. By decreasing pellets and lettuce, we have noticed that the soft stools have decreased. We now only see maybe one or two a day. It's been a week though, and they still aren't gone completely.

I do notice Spike hasn't exactly started eating MORE hay than usual. He's eating about what he used to. We have a mix of Tim hay, Orchard grass, and the compressed Tim stacks, so he has options.

He runs to where we usually feed him multiple times a day, looking for his lettuce/pellets, and comes running every time the fridge opens. I feel absolutely CRUEL not giving him food. And I'm terrified he is starving without it. The vet did say this is only until the poops are ALL normal again, but I'm worried that it's taking a while and also that he looks so hungry. The vet claims a hay based diet is actually the best for them in the end, but how do I know he is getting enough? His poops aren't the massive ones. They are just normal size. Shouldn't they be massive with only hay?

I am so scared I'm starving him! But the problem seems to be getting a bit better and I don't want to make it any worse. How can I get him eating even more hay?

Anyone been though this?

 

[Blue eyes]

The average, healthy poo is the size of cocoa puffs cereal. The poos shouldn't be getting bigger than that from eating hay.
Hay should make up about 80% or more of his daily diet.

Your vet is right that hay is the best for getting a tummy back to normal. Once that is done, you can then work on figuring out what is causing the soft poos. It is different for each individual rabbit. It could be that your rabbit doesn't tolerate romaine lettuce. It could be that the pellets are the cause. You won't be able to figure it out until you test it out by introducing one thing back at a time (after his poos are back to normal).

Certain greens are often the culprit, however RO has seen a few bunnies that don't tolerate pellets. What type/brand of pellets have you been using?

As far as encouraging more hay eating, try refreshing it a couple times throughout the day. There is something about newly added hay that entices them to eat more.

 

[RavenousDragon]

A rabbit can live many many months on nothing but hay. My girl had a similar problem (try looking up cecal dysbiosis for more info) and she was on hay for 6 months and nothing else. She did lose weight, but she was overweight (we were working on training the new rabbit to use a litterbox and not bite and such, and every time he got a treat, she felt she needed one). Now she's a happy, healthy bun who can eat most greens and most pellets again (there is one pelleted oxbow treat she cannot have for some reason). But don't worry- he will increase his hay consumption soon, and he will be fine without greens and such.

 

[Spikethebunny]

Okay, so this morning has been worse than any of the other days. All night and morning, he ate hay and made normal poops. Around 11, the soft ones started. It's been a couple hours, and all I've seen are soft ones. He's not eating hay now, but usually all he does in the afternoon is sleep, so it's not uncommon. He came running when I offered a pellet (I know he shouldn't have them, but I have no other way to test if he still wants food). I called his vet (they were closing) and she wants me to start the metacam tonight to see if it helps. I brought her a sample, and she says she still feels it is diet related and to try to get him eating his hay again and keep an eye on him. I don't know what to do. Should I be really worried? I just want to see some normal poops from him now...

 

[Watermelons]

Have you tried different kinds of hay?

 

[Spikethebunny]

Have you tried different kinds of hay?

He currently has Tim hay, orchard grass, and those compressed hay stacks. Lately, he is definitely favoring the stacks.

The soft stools always seem to come in the middle of the day (between 11am and 4pm), and then he is generally okay overnight and into the morning. I have still been giving him very small bites of romaine and pellets. But I'm going to cut them out completely tonight, as today was the worst bout of sod stools I've seen from him. Over the last week, I'd see 1 or two a day. This weekend, he's had more like 5-7 each day.

The vet really wants me to start the metacam, because she feels if his gums are inflamed, the metacam may help his mouth feel better so he eats more hay. But I read metacam can CAUSE soft stool, so I'm super hesitant to give it to him (not to mention he isn't getting his usual full meals, and she said it needs to be taken with food).

I feel torn. The metacam could be the thing that gets him eating more hay, but if he's not eating enough now, it could be rough on his stomach. It feels like a catch 22.

Would you still give your bun metacam if he already is expedience if occasional sold stools?

 

[Watermelons]

Hay cubes/stacks are kind of useless. You really want the long strands you get in loose hay to be what they eat.
You could try different brands and different types. Oaten? Fescue? Bermuda?
Even timothy hay will differ from 1 field to another so it doesnt hurt to try different brands if youre buying from a pet store.
Just no alfalfa/lucerne.

 

[RavenousDragon]

Hay cubes/stacks are kind of useless.

I disagree- ANY hay, stacks or otherwise, is better than no hay. While longer strands are indeed a little better, if it keeps him eating hay, then it's better than nothing!

 

[Watermelons]

No they are not better. They are a lazy solution.

This rabbit eats hay. Hay cubes are not needed. This rabbits digestive system needs long strand hay to help out not minced compressed hay dust. Why allow a rabbit to fill up on it when they need regular hay.

 

[missyscove]

Watermelons have you used the Oxbow hay stacks?

Assuming that's the stacks we're talking about here I do like them. Oxbow claims they're less dusty though I usually find my pair make more of a mess with them (because they'll pull chunks of the stack onto their rug and eat them there and leave the smallest bits behind vs. their loose hay they eat in the litterbox). They have strands of timothy hay several inches long, so not as long as your typical loose hay but plenty long that rabbits need to chew them. They're very different from hay cubes which I feel are ok to have in a rabbit's diet but definitely not ideal.
I prefer loose hay for my pair but keep a few packages of the stacks around for a back up supply in my earthquake kit. They're perfect for that purpose or for travel.

 

[Spikethebunny]

These are not the cubes. These are the round compressed stacks, exactly as missycove describes. They have long pieces in them, and even those nummy hay tops are in there. Sometimes, I can give Spike one and he will only eat that, other times it ignited his appetite for loose hay.

He is definitely not himself today, though. He used to have incredible litter box habits. I'm finding pee and poop on the floor near the stacks or loose hay. He'll eat a bit of hay, then just lie down.

What's weird is, before we saw the vet last week, this was not a problem. He had a few soft stools, I'd find on the floor, but the rest would always be in the litter box. He had lots of energy. Is it possible she hurt him when she felt around for arthritis? I just don't know why this is happening now, all of a sudden. And he is definitely still not eating enough hay to make up for lack of pellets/lettuce.

I'm still wondering if I should give him the metacam when he is already experiencing soft stools and not eating enough. The vet thinks the metacam will get him to eat, since it should make him feel better. Last night, I gave him very small dose when he ate some hay, and I'm guessing it wasn't enough, since nothing has changed. This is definitely not my usual dude.

 

[RavenousDragon]

I love the Oxbow hay stackers as well. My rabbits think they are a treat (even though it's just timothy hay). They were very useful when Brandy was only allowed to eat hay. Mine will drag them everywhere (including on my bed).

I doubt the vet hurt him feeling around, but he could have strained something jumping around in the car/at the vet. It could also be his mouth is a little sore from the filing of the points, which could explain the not eating as well right after the vet.

 

[Spikethebunny]

I love the Oxbow hay stackers as well. My rabbits think they are a treat (even though it's just timothy hay). They were very useful when Brandy was only allowed to eat hay. Mine will drag them everywhere (including on my bed).

I doubt the vet hurt him feeling around, but he could have strained something jumping around in the car/at the vet. It could also be his mouth is a little sore from the filing of the points, which could explain the not eating as well right after the vet.

Spike loves to drag the stacks everywhere, too. I find them all over. And you're right, he does think of them as a treat. It is the most hay I can get into him right now.

The vet didn't actually file the teeth. She said the spurs were small enough that a large amount of hay being eaten may actually wear them down. She also really didn't want to have to put Spike under anesthetic due to his age and heart murmur. She wanted to see if we could first wear them down naturally before risking surgery of any kind. That is why she prescribed the metacam. She thought maybe if he hurt less, he'd eat more. But I'm worried it will give him MORE soft stools, and I am nervous giving it to him on a hay only diet. Also, last night I tried to give him a tiny dose, just to see, and he did not love the smell, so I had to hide it in a piece of lettuce (which he's not supposed to be eating right now). So I don't know if I'm doing more harm than good? this is so tough....

 

[Aki]

I don't know about hay stacks - I've never even seen something like that so I've got no opinion on them ^^. About the metacam, your rabbit not taking it on his own free will is normal. You don't have to hide it into anything especially if your rabbit shouldn't be eating greens right now - it's just a tiny amount so it's nothing to syringe feed if you hold the rabbit firmly and put the syringe behind the front teeth (Aki took Metacam often this year and it takes 5 secondes to make her drink it, even if she doesn't like being handled and likes the syringe even less).
I don't think giving metacam on a hay only diet is a problem. But it's true that metacam can cause soft stools, which I would be concerned about too. Is there nothing your vet can give that can help with that? I never had the problem (mine always have the opposite condition) but for cats and dogs there are meds for soft stools... (even things like clay) I don't know if some of them can be used for rabbits or not.

 

[Spikethebunny]

I don't know about hay stacks - I've never even seen something like that so I've got no opinion on them ^^. About the metacam, your rabbit not taking it on his own free will is normal. You don't have to hide it into anything especially if your rabbit shouldn't be eating greens right now - it's just a tiny amount so it's nothing to syringe feed if you hold the rabbit firmly and put the syringe behind the front teeth (Aki took Metacam often this year and it takes 5 secondes to make her drink it, even if she doesn't like being handled and likes the syringe even less).
I don't think giving metacam on a hay only diet is a problem. But it's true that metacam can cause soft stools, which I would be concerned about too. Is there nothing your vet can give that can help with that? I never had the problem (mine always have the opposite condition) but for cats and dogs there are meds for soft stools... (even things like clay) I don't know if some of them can be used for rabbits or not.

Thanks. The vet just called to check in. She is going to call me back, but I think they want to try him on critical care till his poop is back to normal. Anyone ever used it? Is it hard to get them to eat?

 

[RavenousDragon]

My rabbits love critical care- especially the apple banana flavor! Sometimes I give it to them as a treat so they don't associate it just with being sick. They gobble it up. You also mix it with water, so force feeding is not all that difficult. Critical care is a wonderful thing to have on hand!!

 

[Spikethebunny]

My rabbits love critical care- especially the apple banana flavor! Sometimes I give it to them as a treat so they don't associate it just with being sick. They gobble it up. You also mix it with water, so force feeding is not all that difficult. Critical care is a wonderful thing to have on hand!!

So I have been lucky so far and have never had to syringe feed Spike anything. Now I will have metacam and critical care. Spike does NOT like being held. As a result (I should've trained both of us in this), I'm not very confident in trying to hold him. Is it possible to give critical care without the syringe? Will they eat it from a bowl or anything? Or is there a less stressful way to syringe feed?

 

[RavenousDragon]

Most rabbits will eat it from a bowl. But if he does not- you'd have to syringe feed it. There are many ways to syringe feed, the best depends on the bun. Since he hates being held, I'd assume he hates being upside down? I would try holding him down on the ground (basically all of his feet are on the ground, but you have control of his head) and try getting the syringe in his mouth that way.

 

[JBun]

My 10 yr. old rabbit was primarily on a hay only diet and she had metacam every day and it never caused soft poop or upset her stomach. The only thing I noted was that initially it caused her poop to be slightly smaller. I personally would give the metacam a try. It may help you determine if pain is the cause of your bun not eating hay well.

The increase in soft poop could be due to the diet change, possibly to the orchard grass if it is very leafy and rich. But it's also possible it isn't related to diet. There can be other health issues that may affect a rabbits digestive system, but you would need further diagnostics done to determine if this is the case.

I found it does become more difficult to manage the health issues that crop up as our rabbits become older. My old rabbit never had health issues pretty much until the last year of her life, then she slowed down, lost some weight when she had been a bit pudgy her whole life, her digestive system become more sensitive and she would get soft poop from things that had never caused issues before, and she developed arthritis and spondylosis. My other old bun started having some soft or watery cecotropes unrelated to diet in his last year. It turned out it was due to an underlying health problem. I found with my old buns, that if the problems couldn't be corrected it just became a matter of managing their conditions the best I could, and that's about all you can do if there are no clear solutions.

 

[Spikethebunny]

Most rabbits will eat it from a bowl. But if he does not- you'd have to syringe feed it. There are many ways to syringe feed, the best depends on the bun. Since he hates being held, I'd assume he hates being upside down? I would try holding him down on the ground (basically all of his feet are on the ground, but you have control of his head) and try getting the syringe in his mouth that way.

I got critical care from the vet, and she gave me a very through presentation (on the floor with a stuffed toy rabbit and everything!) on how to syringe feed Spike. She did say I don't need to force it if he is eating lots of hay. I tried the bowl thing and nope. He ate a bit from the syringe, then spit it out last night. He ate a ton of hay last night, so I didn't bother syringe feeding. This morning, he seemed hungry so I put out a bit of the mixed critical care in his bowl and he actually ate about 3/4 of it, so it's a start. But he was eating more hay when I left this morning.