What is this pimple like thing?

[Desire07]

Hello!

I am very worried about an issue with my bunny! I have a Netherlands dwarf and she just recently turned 11 years old. She is still very active, eating absolutely normally and she is not showing any other health symptoms other than this disgusting thing! Please, check both photos below.
I took her to two separate vets (the problem occurred somewhere around the beginning of October 2015). The second vet gave me an antibiotic which I had to give her for up to 10 days (just one drop as far as I remember/orally). Nothing has changed and the so called "treatment" course ended in the beginning of February this year. Since then, I`m checking her right back leg every single day at least twice, but no improvement has yet occurred. The "thing" is located at the joint of her leg and foot, it is not leaking or anything and it is changing its size periodically. Help me! I really don`t know what to do anymore and I`m sick of incompetent vets!

Thank you in advance!

 

[Watermelons]

My first guess would either be an abscess or something like this http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/sym/metacarpophalangeal_joint_blister.htm
Was it ever poked with a needle and aspirated?
Honestly if shes still eating and drinking and moving and being totally normal, just leave it be.

 

[Aki]

If your rabbit eats well and doesn't seem to be in pain, I would not panic just yet ^^.
My money would be on the abscess. They are notoriously hard to cure. They can come from an untreated wound or have a bacterial origine. Normally, the vet would open the abscess to get the pus out. Ideally, it would be best to analyze it to check what the infection is (the abscess is often a symptom when it has a bacterial origine, it can indicate pasteurella, a urinary infection...). To cure the abscess in itself, antibiotics for about 10 days sounds about right, but you also need a topical treatment to apply several times a day (about 4). You also need to empty it of pus regularly.
I don't know anything about the joint blister that Watermelons suggested. It's a possibility too.
To get a vet to check with a syringe if there is pus inside and to analyse it if there is is probably your best bet to know for sure what it is.
In doubt, you can try to apply honey on it. It's messy, but it is very effective as it soothe the skin and it has antibacterial properties. A lot of vets recommend it to treat abscesses or pododermatitis. It's also completely harmless - a sticky floor is the worst that can happen...

 

[missyscove]

Managing abscesses is very challenging and complex. The current thinking among vets that specialize in exotics is that abscesses can be managed but many can never be cured. There are two major treatment options which are surgery to remove the entire abscess and it's capsule or marsupializing the abscess whereby the abscess is opened up and left open and exposed to heal. Ideal treatment includes culture and sensitivity, ideally of the capsule, and likely long term antibiotics.

That said, some rabbits live well for years with abscesses, so it's certainly a case by case basis.

 

[Desire07]

My first guess would either be an abscess or something like this http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/sym/metacarpophalangeal_joint_blister.htm
Was it ever poked with a needle and aspirated?
Honestly if shes still eating and drinking and moving and being totally normal, just leave it be.

Thank you for the suggested information, Watermelons!
Yes, she is acting absolutely normal in every aspect you could think of, but my worries are solely based on her age. I am always thinking that because of her age, it would be even more difficult for her to get over the problem. Additionally, it seems that when this abscess or blister swallows further, she is not hopping as firm as usual on this foot.

 

[Desire07]

If your rabbit eats well and doesn't seem to be in pain, I would not panic just yet ^^.
My money would be on the abscess. They are notoriously hard to cure. They can come from an untreated wound or have a bacterial origine. Normally, the vet would open the abscess to get the pus out. Ideally, it would be best to analyze it to check what the infection is (the abscess is often a symptom when it has a bacterial origine, it can indicate pasteurella, a urinary infection...). To cure the abscess in itself, antibiotics for about 10 days sounds about right, but you also need a topical treatment to apply several times a day (about 4). You also need to empty it of pus regularly.
I don't know anything about the joint blister that Watermelons suggested. It's a possibility too.
To get a vet to check with a syringe if there is pus inside and to analyse it if there is is probably your best bet to know for sure what it is.
In doubt, you can try to apply honey on it. It's messy, but it is very effective as it soothe the skin and it has antibacterial properties. A lot of vets recommend it to treat abscesses or pododermatitis. It's also completely harmless - a sticky floor is the worst that can happen...

Aki, thank you for the provided suggestions and information as well!
As I pointed above, my worries are based on her age and the possible difficulties that she would experience to overcome the issue.
Both vets never drained the pus inside of the "thing" and I would like to ask - is this something that I can do myself? I`m afraid of the open wound, but I will do my best to sterilize every utensil that I use in the process. I haven`t checked whether our vets would want to analyze the fluid inside of the abscess/blister.
Additionally, I love the honey idea (no worries with the sticky floor as long as it helps in the curing process). But I have one major issue - how to protect her of licking it all - neck collar or something? She absolutely adores everything sweet, including chocolate and honey and she is one little glutton bunny :bunnysuit: who cannot be abstained of such sweet treat :happybunny:

 

[Desire07]

Thank you for the suggested information, Watermelons!
Yes, she is acting absolutely normal in every aspect you could think of, but my worries are solely based on her age. I am always thinking that because of her age, it would be even more difficult for her to get over the problem. Additionally, it seems that when this abscess or blister swallows further, she is not hopping as firm as usual on this foot.

Just to add: No, the abscess/blister was never poked with a needle and aspirated afterwards. Is this something that I can do myself? I have asked Aki the same question as well, because I`m a little worried about the open wound and the pain she might feel.

 

[Desire07]

Managing abscesses is very challenging and complex. The current thinking among vets that specialize in exotics is that abscesses can be managed but many can never be cured. There are two major treatment options which are surgery to remove the entire abscess and it's capsule or marsupializing the abscess whereby the abscess is opened up and left open and exposed to heal. Ideal treatment includes culture and sensitivity, ideally of the capsule, and likely long term antibiotics.

That said, some rabbits live well for years with abscesses, so it's certainly a case by case basis.

Thank you for your comment missyscove! I`m trying to realize the complexity of the issue and I understand that there is a possibility that it cannot be cured. But, at the same time, I would like to try more options in order to keep her as healthy as she can be. As pointed many times above, she is already 11 and I`m trying to accept the idea that she is even older than most dwarf bunnies expected life span.

I would like to add that I have changed her cage, her bow, water supply tube, her hay (she is very pretentious about it), simply everything that could have cost the possible infection infestation. I`m afraid that if it continues to swallow, she won`t be an active runny bunny as she is now :running bunny

 

[Aki]

Aki, thank you for the provided suggestions and information as well!
As I pointed above, my worries are based on her age and the possible difficulties that she would experience to overcome the issue.
Both vets never drained the pus inside of the "thing" and I would like to ask - is this something that I can do myself? I`m afraid of the open wound, but I will do my best to sterilize every utensil that I use in the process. I haven`t checked whether our vets would want to analyze the fluid inside of the abscess/blister.
Additionally, I love the honey idea (no worries with the sticky floor as long as it helps in the curing process). But I have one major issue - how to protect her of licking it all - neck collar or something? She absolutely adores everything sweet, including chocolate and honey and she is one little glutton bunny :bunnysuit: who cannot be abstained of such sweet treat :happybunny:

Yes, I completely understand your worries, considering that your rabbit is getting old. Of course, the abscess (if that's what it is) in itself is not life-threatening, but what caused it might be more problematic.

Yes, it is possible to drain the abscess by yourself. I haven't done it, but I know someone whose rabbit had an abscess and she did it. You'd have to have a vet show you how. I know some vets just open the abscess a bit leaving an opening so that you can empty it manually...

For the honey, they generally recommend to use Manuka honey. You can just put it on and distract your rabbit for a little while - it's not important if she licks it afterwards. I read several articles on very serious websites and articles from vets which actually recommended to inject honey inside the abcsess too after draining it from pus (to empty and refill everyday). Unfortunately, all the articles I have are in French. Maybe you can find more if you google it?

 

[missyscove]

I would not recommend opening the abscess yourself in any way, especially since we aren't sure it's an abscess (though I would say that's most likely). That's the sort of thing that typically requires some degree of sedation in a rabbit. Additionally there can be zoonotic risks with exposing yourself to the bacteria in the abscess.

 

[flemishwhite]

I quickly read all the posts, but may have missed some detail, so pardon me if I address an issue already discussed. I don't think you should try to drain what appears to be an abcess or a berticus fluid sack that has formed. I would think a good vett would try to take a biopsy and send it off to a lab for evaluation.

When Bunny had a lump under a breast..the li'l varmits have 8 breasts!, the vett did mention that Bunny was 11 years old. I think the implication was that I do nothing and let nature take it's course. There was no clue if the lump was benign or cancerous. I just told the vett, it's not natural to have a lump there and so get rid of it and I don't care how old the rabbit is. About $400 and the lump was gone.

 

[Desire07]

Dear all,

I'm sorry I haven't wrote recently. Unfortunately, the problem got even worse around two or three days since my first post. Today Zuzi's abscess thing was tried to be drained by a specialist vet, but there was not any fluid other than her own blood. She went under full examination - blood, temperature, x-ray (the vet was worried that the joint was infected as well - thanks God, nothing), ear inspection... etc. Everything is normal! Unfortunately, I was told that the abscess has infection on its own (the white small spots on the skin on the swallowed abscess were also infected). Now, she is going to take antibiotic every 12 hours, pain killer (the abscess got really swallowed and she couldn't hop as usual) and I'll clean the place at least twice a day with some kind of Antibacterial medication. Wish us luck! Should I write you about the names of the medicines?

 

[Maureen Las]

Abscesses are difficult to eradicate and usually need not one but several potent antibiotics for a lengthy period of time. Rabbit pus is often very thick and doesn't drain easily. Injectable bicillin and oral drugs like Zithromax (or even oral Baytril, Zeniquen ) need to be given together to provide a synergistic effect on the bacteria. Google Marcy Moore and read her article on the use of injectable bicillin in the tx of abscesses in rabbits. Bicillin can be bought over the counter in farm stores in the US that sell refrigerated antibiotics and vaccines for livestock. It is a combination of procaine penicillin which is fast acting and benzathine penicillin which is longer acting. A person in crises can learn to give injections themselves but better yet to keep searching for an exotics vet who know this info . Also read Medi-Rabbit article on abscesses and their tx. Sorry but I no longer know how to attach links here.

 

[Blue eyes]

Also read Medi-Rabbit article on abscesses and their tx. Sorry but I no longer know how to attach links here.

(Welcome back, Maureen Las. I joined while you were absent.)

To attach links, click on the icon that shows the earth (blue circle) with what looks like 2 links of a chain to me. That will pop open a window that allows you to type in the URL. {I usually bold and change the color of the word that will be the link by using the bold and color options above the box of the post I am typing. In the example below, I highlighted "Medi-Rabbit" then clicked on the world/earth icon to link the medi rabbit site to the word.}


Here is the link to Medi-Rabbit.

 

[Desire07]

Abscesses are difficult to eradicate and usually need not one but several potent antibiotics for a lengthy period of time. Rabbit pus is often very thick and doesn't drain easily. Injectable bicillin and oral drugs like Zithromax (or even oral Baytril, Zeniquen ) need to be given together to provide a synergistic effect on the bacteria. Google Marcy Moore and read her article on the use of injectable bicillin in the tx of abscesses in rabbits. Bicillin can be bought over the counter in farm stores in the US that sell refrigerated antibiotics and vaccines for livestock. It is a combination of procaine penicillin which is fast acting and benzathine penicillin which is longer acting. A person in crises can learn to give injections themselves but better yet to keep searching for an exotics vet who know this info . Also read Medi-Rabbit article on abscesses and their tx. Sorry but I no longer know how to attach links here.

Maureen Las, thank you for the provided information with regards to the use of Bicillin. I`m writing my messages from Europe and it seems like this medication cannot be found at all in my country. We have a match though with the prescribed drugs - Enrofloxacin (Baytril) (0,22 ml/12 hours, orally). Additionally - Hibiscrub to manually clean the abscess and Meloxicam orally (the vet gave me 4 doses for 4 days).
I would like to ask - is there anything else I can use to manually treat the wound? I`m afraid that the Hibiscrub won`t help, because the abscess is way bigger and disgusting than what I initially posted!
Thanks God, Zuzi is still as active as always!

 

[JBun]

Bicillin is just a generic term for the injectable antibiotic penicillin g procaine combined with penicillin g benzathine, to make it long acting so it doesn't have to be injected daily. You should have available to you injectable penicillin g procaine, which is a short acting penicillin that instead would have to be injected daily. I do know of other rabbit owners in Europe and the UK, that have treated their rabbits abscesses with the injectable pen g procaine daily. Some of the brand names you may have available are duphapen and depocillin.

If the abscess is getting bigger, then it would seem likely that the enrofloxacin isn't being effective at controlling the bacteria in the abscess. Which seems to be a common thing. Rarely have I ever come across baytril being very effective when it comes to treating abscesses in rabbits. There are other antibiotics that can be tried that would likely prove more effective than the baytril if you still can't get a hold of the penicillin.
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Bacterial/Abscessation_rabbits.htm
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Penicillin.htm

For wound management, manuka honey is often used. This link has an illustrated guide for abscess management.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Bacterial/Absc_treat/abscess_treat.htm

And if you are in the UK and aren't already seeing a rabbit specialist, I would recommend doing so. There are several very good specialists in the UK.
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Penicillin.htm

 

[mikenyny]

Hello!

I am very worried about an issue with my bunny! I have a Netherlands dwarf and she just recently turned 11 years old. She is still very active, eating absolutely normally and she is not showing any other health symptoms other than this disgusting thing! Please, check both photos below.
I took her to two separate vets (the problem occurred somewhere around the beginning of October 2015). The second vet gave me an antibiotic which I had to give her for up to 10 days (just one drop as far as I remember/orally). Nothing has changed and the so called "treatment" course ended in the beginning of February this year. Since then, I`m checking her right back leg every single day at least twice, but no improvement has yet occurred. The "thing" is located at the joint of her leg and foot, it is not leaking or anything and it is changing its size periodically. Help me! I really don`t know what to do anymore and I`m sick of incompetent vets!

Thank you in advance!

(Reply)
Sorry, can't offer you any medical explanation, but I don't use "vets" anymore; I am fortunate enough to have found an "Animal hospital" - with real animal doctors.

 

[Gezellige_Poes]

I try to avoid invasive procedures and prescribed medications (Western medicine). I have had great success treating infections and several types of tumors using Manuka honey. Considering the age of your bunny, I would definitely check into alternative protocols such as this. I had a bunny, Jamy, with an unoperable ganglion cyst on his wrist that ended up rupturing through his skin. Within 10 days of cleaning with warm epsom salt water and dressing with Manuka honey daily, the plum sized tumor was down to 1/3 its size.

I have long list of other examples. Given what is described here, I would definitely apply Manuka honey topically to all affected areas and give your bunny 1 - 3 cc orally every day.

I buy it from Wedderspoon, K Factor 16, after doing exhaustive research to figure out which kind, strength, etc. You can find this locally in a health food store.

 

[Gezellige_Poes]

P.S. I hope you are aware of the negative effect antibiotics have on the delicate microbial environment in a bunny's gut. Honey, on the other hand, is a natural antibiotic that will not destroy the natural balance.