Viral cold - Incompetent Vet

[nikitanain]

I got Jim and Chester 3 days ago from a horrid place.. Chester died this morning without showing any symptoms and Jim has a bad cold since morning.. I took Jim to the best vet in town, who turned out to be an incompetent moron (Sorry, but I am really mad at this man)..

The vet said that it is a viral cold, both the lungs are filled with fluid and he has a 25 - 30% chance of recovery. He used the nebulizer on Jim, gave me some meds to prevent secondary bacterial infection and said that I will have to get Jim for nebulization every second day..

The doctor could not tell me how many days it will take for him to show any improvement, how many days nebulization Jim requires or any other information that matters..

I have hopes that Jim will recover since when my dog was 2 months old and ill this doc said that my dog has less than 10% chance of recovery.. My dog is 1 year 6 months now, she is living proof that this doctor is a nut job...

I do not want to take Jim back to this vet since he is using steroids in the nebulizer and he is refusing to tell me which meds he is using. Basically this doctor is refusing to give any information..

I will be using homeopathy meds in addition to the meds the doctor has prescribed..

I was wondering is giving steam inhalation to Jim will help, and if yes then what meds should I put in the water? I also have a nebulizer at home with all the required attachments..

Any help is appreciated since I am at my wit's ends.. Thanks!

 

[Inspector Morse]

I am so sorry to hear of Chester's passing

You dont say whether the Rabbits are adults or babies ?

To me it sounds as though poor Chester had an acute pneumonia and in Rabbits this tends to have a bacterial cause rather than a viral one. So aggressive antibiotic therapy for Jim would be what I would expect alongside a non steroidal anti-inflammatory. In some cases of Pneumonia that I have seen the Rabbits also required a few shots of a diuretic to try to shift the pulmonary oedema.

With nebulisation then I tend to just use sterile saline although antibiotics can also be administered via a nebuliser.

I really hope that Jim recovers.

 

[nikitanain]

Thanks!

Both of the rabbits are babies, about 6 weeks old..

The doctor has prescribed an anti-inflammatory medicine, 1 ml twice a day...

Since I have a nebulizer at home with all the attachments, is it possible for me to administer medicine by myself? I am new at treating my pets with antibiotics hence can someone please tell me what kind of medicine do I have to administer with the nebulizer and how much?You mentioned sterile saline, can I buy it at the drug store, how much should I use?

Thanks!

 

[Maureen Las]

I have never nebulized a rabbit although other members have and hopefully can give you some first hand info.

Here is an article from rabbit references


http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/nebulization.html

Quoted from "When Your rabbit needs Special care " Lucille Moore/ Kathy Smith

"Nebulizing medications or delivering them to the site of infection inthe form of a fine spray can be very efective for respiratory ailments in rabbits.

The nebulizing solution or mix, will be
one of a precise recipe determined by the vet. it will often include saline, an antibiotic(frequently gentamicin,amikacin or enrofloxicin) a bronchodilator such as aminophylline and a medication that losens mucuos (acetylcysteine or bromexine). This mixture is placed in the nebulizer"

She then goes on to state that a mask is generally more effective than[ a chamber ; she then describes how to make a chamber if a rabbit will not tolerate the mask.

This is not helping you dose the meds so I am hoping that one of our members who has done this before can help
maybe Haley ;I will pm her.

 

[Maureen Las]

I found these


http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=55541&forum_id=25&highlight=nebulizer

 

[Maureen Las]

Haley's thread on Max



http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=16549&forum_id=16&highlight=nebulizer

 

[Haley]

Hi there

I used a nebulizer on Max with a lot of success for his upper respiratory infection. Are there any other vets you can work with? You need someone willing to help you do this at home. It will be much cheaper for you and less stressful on your bunny. Some people build a mask using a pop bottle where you cut off the bottom and they put their head through it but I found this to be very stressful since the rabbit's head is in a pop bottle. Instead, I built a chamber where the nebulizer pumps meds into a large rubbermaid container and Max sat inside for about 10 mins. It creates a nice mist that helps them breathe and delivers the meds.

The only thing I could see doing at home if you dont have precribed meds is using sterile saline to put in the nebulizing chamber, this will help him breathe but won't fight the infection at all. You can get sterile saline vials from the pharmacy but I believe you need a rx. I think I paid $30 for a big box (maybe 100)of 1cc plastic vials.

I worked with my vet and used a recipe similar to the one used by Kirk Lowis in that article angieluv pasted above. I combined saline with mucomyst and gentamycin (ear drops I believe).

Im bummed because it looks like the website is down that had had the pics of how to build the nebulizer chamber. If you are interested, I can take pictures of mine to show you. It's not too difficult. But you really need a vet who will work with you on this one.

 

[Haley]

Here are some instructions I just found that are similar. I didnt use a drill for mine though, just traced the circle and cut it out with a utility knife.

http://catnipkids.homestead.com/nebulizer.html

 

[nikitanain]

Thank you for replying, I really appreciate it...

Getting a prescription from a vet is not hard, but getting a vet to come home or do the actual nebulization in the right way is the tough part..

I did read the threads, thank you for the links.. In the nebulizer thread I came across these medications Tylan, Biosol, sterile water and in Max's thread I read about Baytril..

I also came across the medicines getamycin, saline, and mucomyst in Max's thread...

What combination of meds should I use?

The vet dint use a chamber or a mask, he simply attached a small tube to the nebulizer and let the mist on to Jim's face... Since Jim was not in any enclosure most of the mist was let out into the room..

I have a humidifier, I was planning to use it but I was not sure if this is a good idea or not.. I think I shall use the humidifier along with a drop of eucalyptus oil, please advice..

Please forgive any typos/ errors.. It's 3:30 am, I am sleepy and worried sick...

P.S - My grandmother would use the nebulizer before she died, we would administer the medicine to her so all of us are aware of how to use the nebulizer..

 

[nikitanain]

I found these homeopathic cures for pneumonia

http://health.hpathy.com/pneumonia1-symptoms-treatment-cure.asp

 

[Haley]

I would definitely use a humidifier if you have it, a vaporizer is even better and the eucalyptus should help (cant hurt).

If your vet is willing to give rxs for you to do the nebulizer at home, ask about the combo of gentamycin, saline and mucomyst. You mix the three together in the medicine cup of the nebulizer.

Can you print out one of the articles and take it to show your vet?

What kind of oral antibiotic is he on? I think he needs to be on something..I understand he is young but if he is that bad he should probably be on something.

Im sorry you have to go through this

 

[nikitanain]

The doc prescribed,

1) Antipyretic, analgesic, anti inflimatory oral medicine - 1 ml twice a day - Himalaya
2) Amoxicillin and potassium clavulanate oral suspension ip - 0.5 ml twice a day..

When ever I ask this vet any questions or if I suggest anything he gets defensive and tells me that he has gone to medical school where as I am a lay man so I should listen to him and not ask questions or debate.. That's why i hate this doc so much!!

My homeopathic doc has gone out of the country, she will return only after 1 month so I cannot even contact her...

The articles say that Aconite (homeo) should be taken in case of acute pneumonia, sudden onset and little to no hope of recovery.. I have this medicine with me, I am considering giving Jim five to six baby pills thrice a day (that's the dosgae)

 

[nikitanain]

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Respiratory/respira_main.htm

I found two videos on this site that are very helpful.. Thought of posting them up..

I used the humidifier for 5 minutes on Jim once at 6 am and once at 6:45 am.. I shall use the humidifier 3 - 4 more times today for 5 minutes each time.. I shall also get the meds for the nebulizer today, gentamycin, saline and mucomyst..

If I am missing out anything then please let me know..

 

[Maureen Las]

nikitanain wrote:

The doc prescribed,

1) Antipyretic, analgesic, anti inflimatory oral medicine - 1 ml twice a day - Himalaya
2) Amoxicillin and potassium clavulanate oral suspension ip - 0.5 ml twice a day..

When ever I ask this vet any questions or if I suggest anything he gets defensive and tells me that he has gone to medical school where as I am a lay man so I should listen to him and not ask questions or debate.. That's why i hate this doc so much!!

My homeopathic doc has gone out of the country, she will return only after 1 month so I cannot even contact her...

The articles say that Aconite (homeo) should be taken in case of acute pneumonia, sudden onset and little to no hope of recovery.. I have this medicine with me, I am considering giving Jim five to six baby pills thrice a day (that's the dosgae)

Amoxicillin cannot be used orally on a rabbit ; it will wipe out the beneficial bacteria in the gut of the rabbit. do not use amoxicillin

http://www.medirabbit.com/Unsafe_medication/dangerous_antibiotics.htm

 

[nikitanain]

I already gave him 2 doses of amoxicillin.. What should I do now? Should I give him probiotics?

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

nikitanain wrote:

I already gave him 2 doses of amoxicillin.. What should I do now? Should I give him probiotics?

here is a link to safe antibiotics for rabbits http://www.rabbit.org/health/antibiotics.html -i purchase my meds from a pharmacy in mumbai,,india..,but please study up first,,another good link is http://www.medirabbit.com --you are in for a lots of reading,,i find it easier to print out and read.//.penicillins,,are generally not well recieved by rabbit,,we prefer derivitives there of like azithromycin,,.this is the big gun,,and yes-you are correct in giving probotics,,i like oxbow critical care,,if you cannot get that product look up a product called probios--see if you can get that,,if your country has horses their digestive tract is very simular to a rabbits--ask a dealer/trainer where you can get probotics.//.i am sorry you lost one rabbit,,.a diet of grasses is mandatory--and i understand that you donot have rabbit pellets,,ask a horse dealer again what to feed-or-see what this link will do for you http://www.rabbit.org - this is the house of rabbit society--there are safe,,toxic -plants-lists also on these websites..pm me if need be ..sincerely james waller

 

[aurora369]

I would give him lots of fluids, hay and some probiotics. The higher quality the better (the most bacteria count). You can use ones for animals bought from a feed or pet store, or you can use human acidophilus. If using acidophilus, open the capsul and mix the powder with a bit of water or juice and feed with an eye dropper or syringe (although if mixed with juice, he may eat it willingly on his own). Only use a very small amount of juice though, just enough to flavour as too much sugar is not very good for the digestive tract.

Amoxicillin can only be administered by injection to rabbits, and it is not a first choice in most cases anyways.

Here is a direct link to the Medirabbit safe antibiotic list:
http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm

I would continue to nebulize the bun, but make sure to discontinue the amoxicillin. Go and see a vet to get a new antibiotic. If possible, print off the safe antibiotic list from the website and take it with you.

If possible, get the vet to teach you to give injections because they tend to be more effective and less damaging to the bacteria in the digestive tract. And since this bun is a little baby, his digestive tract is more sensitive than an adults. Injections are fairly easy to give at home once you have been taught how.

-Dawn

 

[nikitanain]

Thanks for the links, I shall read up.. I did what the vet told me to do, I had no clue that the vet will prescribe a medicine that is unsafe...

I have been reading up since the last 24 hours, not about what the doctor prescribed but what things I can give in addition..

I did the nebulization with saline as suggested in the other thread... 2 cc lasted for less than 5 minutes.. How many times a day should I use the nebulizer?

James, I do have rabbit pellets and I also have timothy hay cubes, I have been breaking the cubes and pellets into small pieces and giving they rabbits since the rabbits are very young.. Since yesterday morning Jim has eaten lettuce, tomato and a small piece of mango, he is refusing to eat rabbit pellets or timothy hay..

I have some farm grown hay, should I try that instead? Is there any other fruits/veggies I can give him, maybe broccoli?

I have got him a curd based probiotic supplement, we use it weekly for my dog since she has weak digestion.. The tough part is making him drink the liquid since he is really scared and probably hates me by now..

I do not mean to sound rude, sorry if I am appearing that way, I have been up since the last 36 hours and I am really tired.. I cant sleep since I fear that Jim may not be alive when I get up..

Dawn, I cant find a vet who cares a rat's ass and that's the problem.. There is a good vet but he is 25 kms away (1 way) ... Making a sick bunny travel for 2 hours one way to visit a vet doesnt seem like a good idea to me.. This doctor doesnt do phone consultations so that is not an option...

At this point, I wouldnt mind calling up a doctor in USA if he/she is ready to do a phone consultation.. I REALLY want Jim to make it and live a healthy life!

 

[aurora369]

You can try giving my vet a call in Canada, he is normally pretty open to giving advise and consultation. Give him a try during office hours or try sending an e-mail to arrange a time to call (not sure if there is an e-mail address on his website or not).

Here is his information from our vet listing:
Pipp wrote:

Dr. Joseph Martinez now has his own clinic in Richmond (Steveston).

Little Paws Animal Clinic.
130-12011 Second Ave (beside Ichiro)
604.241.7387

He's one of the best bunny vets in the area.

His website is: http://littlepawsvet.com/

As for the diet, I would stick to hay (the farm grown hay should be good) and water for now. If you know he was fed veggies at his previous home, then go ahead and feed some simple veggies like lettuce or other leafy green veggies. You want to feed him a plain diet so that his digestive tract can stay balanced and healthy to help deal with the amoxicillin.

I understand being short on sleep and panicking about the well being of your rabbit. At this point, I would do my best to get a bit of sleep and try to stay relaxed (as hard as that is!). Rabbits pick up on our stress and it makes them stressed. So, it is a good idea to look after yourself during this stressful time too!

-Dawn

 

[nikitanain]

Thank you for the information, I shall contact your vet shortly..

I actually rescued the rabbits from a market and they were fed ONLY cabbage and hay...

I am logging off for the day now, I shall try to get some rest, I shall use the nebulizer when I get up and I shall keep you guys informed..

Thanks a ton