Update on Coco....taken a turn for the worse

[Pipp]

Steph, I am so sorry. What rotten timing.

Nick, you're a saint. :hug1

To the forum... StephieMarie notified me a few days ago that with her new situation, in particular a new job that is taking up 12 hours a day or longer,she would be resigning from her Admin position.

Under these circumstances, the chances of being able to take the necessarycare of a profoundly disabled rabbitin a manner that wouldensure Cocoa's continuing health are pretty slim. No one canexpect that quitting ajob to try and keep a beloved petalive isa true choice. As much as we all love our rabbits,and we thinkwe would do anything to keep them healthy, we arelimited bystark reality.

When people are physically or financially unable totake care of asick pet, it's common to relinquish theirguardianship to a vet, but the vet here has already stated an opinion. Unlessthe second vet has other options, orthere's a rescue or other personnel available to administerthefrequent treatments,I'm not sure avalianteffort to try and extend her life isa much of an option if the care is as extensive as it sounds. Attempting to do so out of love or guilt can so easilyend up causingpain and suffering -- the very thing we all agreewe want to avoid when discussing quality of life.

Steph, we can allappreciate the difficult position you're in.The choice will bebetween youand the vets. We will fully support any decision you make.

So sorry you have to make it.



sas :sad:

 

[JadeIcing]

Steph if you need me, I am here. You know how to reach me. As I said if you do have to make that choice give yourself the time to say good bye. I am with you no matter what you have to do. :hug:

 

[TinysMom]

First of all - welcome to the forum Nick! Thank you for coming here to try and help Coco while Steph was at work. A lot of people wouldn't do that - they might say, "its your bunny...you handle it". We really appreciate you caring enough for Coco and Steph to take the time to come here - and to take Coco to a vet.

Secondly - one sad thing I've found about forum life is that there is always someone who will disagree with you - or talk about you behind your back - or whatever. It seems like mixed in with all of those who understand what you're saying or agree with you or even just encourage you - there are still those few who seek to "have their say" either to you - or to others about you. Ignore them. You have to take the advice you get from here and from the vet and encourage Steph to make the best decision for her and for Coco.

I've had disabled rabbits - although not from a broken back. I've got to say that it does take a lot of time and care to take care of them. Some rabbits adjust ok and even enjoy the extra attention - others - don't do so well and are very unhappy.

So I can understand that idea that perhaps putting Coco to sleep is the kindest thing for her - even though it will hurt Steph a lot.

My thoughts and prayers will be with you both today as you visit the vet and try to make decisions. I know it will be a hard day and the choices you face will be rough. I understand about today's economy and how it can affect situations like this.

Steph - I'm sorry this has happened - know that we're here for you whatever you have to decide.

Please do keep us updated on how this works out.

 

[MuttBunny]

I'm with you, Nick. I completely disagree with keeping a disabled animal alive just because we can. I think it's far kinder to end their suffering and save another in their honor. I would feel this way regardless of what the economic situation is.

I also think it's kindest to hold your animal in her final moments rather than let him or her succumb naturally when they aren't in perfect health. It's more peaceful for the animal to feel loved and secure rather than alone and afraid.

I don't envy your situation but if I were in your shoes I'd have her put to sleep too.

 

[niko521mac]

WOW, I am so impressed with everyone in this forum!

UPDATE:
We have postponed taking coco to be put to sleep because we found somethings that were suspicious and a cause for a SMALL(VERY SMALL) amount of hope.

1) There was Poop in the cage this morning. She is not supposed to be able to do that. It was the hard kind too

2) She has moved several times since the night, and this morning I watched her move from one side of the cage to the other.... This peaked my interest so..

3)I touched her in a way that I knew coco would not like, I could tell she was not in the mood..but I wanted to see her move. I SAW her back leg move...a tiny bit, but there was definite push type movement.

after reading alot online, I saw it was good to extend her back legs so they do not lock up, in case she does regain her ability to use them, they will still be in working shape.

4) While doing this..I felt a definite TUG from her. However small it was, it was not there yesterday.


Now, so we dont all go too far, there are some poor signs still...
a) she is not drinking water as far as I can tell. if so, very very little. Tonight will tell more.
b)The stuff im noticing could be so small that its that I didnt notice these abilities yesterday, but im not sure.

RANDY has suggested a great test, to see if there is feeling in her legs..
Stay Tuned...

Nick
PS..thank you all for your very kind words and sympathy. Steph has taught me alot about rabbits. To be honest, I NEVER came within a few feet of one in my life...just never had the opportunity. In fact, I only got into Cats about 10 years ago! I have to say that Coco's experience has rabbits growing on my list, maybe enough to look into one myself. Just dont tell Stephanie!! Please!

 

[TinysMom]

Nick,

I'm so glad that you're seeing some signs that things may not be as bad as they first looked.

I have had disabled rabbits that I kept alive - and I've got to say that over time - our relationship became so sweet. They did not have the mobility of other rabbits - but they grew to love our time together - the snuggles - the hand feeding (sometimes I hand fed them just cause they loved it).

When I was on a list for disabled rabbits they shared something that really influenced the way I feel about keeping disabled bunnies alive. They shared three "A"s to watch for...

Alert - is the rabbit alert and aware of their surroundings and paying attention to what is going on around them

Affection - is the rabbit affectionate with either another rabbit or their caregiver. They may not be giving affection but are they happy when receiving affection.

Appetite - Do they still eat well? Do they enjoy eating?

​

The general consensus on the list was - if they had all three of these things - or even two of the three - then it might be best to let them fight and not put them to sleep.

I can tell you after losing both of my disabled rabbits that you will be able to tell when they want to leave. GingerSpice gave me signs for a couple of days before she passed and the day before she passed away - it was obvious that she was ready to go. She was sleeping all the time and not alert and not wanting to eat. She also didn't even want the normal attention she loved. New Hope gave me very little warning and had many close calls - but that last time - I saw in his eyes that he wanted to give up the fight and be allowed to pass.

My point? You will know what is best because the rabbit will show you if you're watching for the signs.

My thoughts and prayers will continue to be with you & Steph & Coco.

 

[TinysMom]

I forgot to add - can you give her water in a bowl instead of a bottle? (I'm not sure how she gets her water). Or if she gets greens - soak them in water before she gets them?

Also - a rabbit that is in pain won't eat as much - and I suspect they won't drink as much - as when they're not in pain. So maybe she needs some pain meds?

Just a thought...

 

[Haley]

Nick, bless you for doing so much for Steph and for Coco. We all know you and Steph have Cocos best interest at heart.

The advice Peg gave above is great. None of us here want to prolong an animal'ssuffering when the quality of life has been severly compromised. But if there is a glimmer of hope I think youre doing the right thing in waiting a little or possibly getting a second opinion. I had a bunny who was seemingly on death's door due to a horrible tooth root abscess and Peg and I talked at length about howI would know when enoughwas enough. I think that the quality of their life has everything to do with it. Luckily my rabbit Max made a full recovery- but Ive been there where you cannot stand to watch them be in that sort of pain.

Regardless, we all know you and Steph will do whats best for sweet Coco and we're here for you both. Glad to hear you have been converted into a rabbit lover- the world needs more men who love bunnies!

Please tell Stephanie we're all thinking of her and please let us know if theres anything we can do to help!

Haley

 

[niko521mac]

I did like the Three As.
and I agree with that assessment.

I would include Water with eating.
Im waiting to find out. Steph just called and said she peed all over herself.
Possibly good, possibly bad. Id say more good, I thought she couldnt go to bathroom at all without help. Now shes done nos ONE and TWO!

Steph does not think she drank any water though, so were gonna try the lettuce trick.

On a positive note, Steph says coco HATES to have her nails trimmed. ...and coco pulled back on her back leg a little when steph went to trim her nail.
Coco was NOT able to see it being trimmed, so she must have felt it a little.

At this point, weve agreed to give her a stay from the Governor!
Hope everyone can appreciate my sense of humor!
No one wants coco to come through this more than I do, I know how much she means to Stephanie.

More tomorrow....

 

[JimD]

We're all here for you.
ray:

 

[Maureen Las]

As long as she is showing a tiny bit of improvement it would help her immensely if you could get some fluids in her either with a syringe and/or subqutaneously. If she is beginning to get some function back and if she continues to get some function she will need some fluid and food to give her the strength. It is possible that she will pull out of this to a certain extent but she will be very uncomfortable if she is dehydrated and her organs will fail if she is not given food.
I respect your feelings re. her being paralyzed but now that she is exhibiting some degree of improvement it may be necessary to help her along for a period of time and then make a decision.

 

[stephiemarie78]

Right now I work from anywhere from 8am to after 7pm. So since she can pee on her own. Whats the best way to deal with cleaning her up.

 

[slavetoabunny]

How about some vet bed or puppy training pads that will wick the moisture away from the body? You can get a great deal on Palace Pet vet bed here:

http://www.montereymills.com/index.php?id=17

 

[stephiemarie78]

She did drink some from the water bowl and she's eating hay!

 

[TreasuredFriend]

Expounding on what Peg wrote ...
Nick,

I'm so glad that you're seeing some signs that things may not be as bad as they first looked.

I have had disabled rabbits that I kept alive - and I've got to say that over time - our relationship became so sweet. They did not have the mobility of other rabbits - but they grew to love our time together - the snuggles - the hand feeding (sometimes I hand fed them just cause they loved it).

When I was on a list for disabled rabbits they shared something that really influenced the way I feel about keeping disabled bunnies alive. They shared three "A"s to watch for...
Alert - is the rabbit alert and aware of their surroundings and paying attention to what is going on around them

Affection - is the rabbit affectionate with either another rabbit or their caregiver. They may not be giving affection but are they happy when receiving affection.

Appetite - Do they still eat well? Do they enjoy eating?
---------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree, Peg. The three A's are reviewed each time I care for Tamm and Karla.
They both have the will, appetite, affection and desire to carry on and be rabbity (ie. | pick up toys and throw 'em, slather me w/ kisses, chase me down for a 'nana slice, U-turn their body at the sound of an oatmeal container shake) with their disability.

Karla will drag herself on her stronger front limbs all around her & Barry's room at night. Because her poop trail is evident.

Was it in the disabled forum or another book that said Rabbits actually handle disabilities better than humans do, or humans perceive the rabbits do - ?

Review those A's. Appetite, attitude and affection.
Go from there to determine what's best.

For Karla and Tamm, I got Laura Ashley bath rugs, on sale, at Kohl's Department store. Or I shop around for any absorbable rug. Found sale stuff at Bed, Bath and Beyond. Those Laura Ashley bath rugs may have been discontinued? I look for comfy normal bath rugs with backing that the girls won't chew. I express their bladders at least 2x a day because their hind limbs won't allow them to use a litter box. Expressing their bladder save me from washing more rugs when their bladder wants to void.
There are good rugs out there in lieu of purchasing the plush fleece fabric. And some folks may find the plush fleece works great too. Good suggestion. I didn't like the way it laundered.
Karla or Tamm, if they have cecotrope gummies that can't reconsume, well, it gets smooshed into the fleece I found... 'spackle ceco's are easier to remove from bath rug.

If you find an absorbable rug, she can pee on that and have space to relocate to some degree? She'll stay free from urine scald that way, not laying in her pee output.

 

[TreasuredFriend]

Karla did great at her chiropractor appt this aft.
She's on a holistic/herb powder from the chiropractor vet and some vets will suggest Cosequin. I find the combination of eastern culture and western treatment for our disabled girls helps. Very simple adjustments.

As Peg wrote above and others have said, the physical therapy time with a disabled rabbit can bond you as a human a thousand times closer.

I see potential in those photo faces! :sunshine::hug: Above all, make sure she's not in pain due to the incident.

Karla and Tamm fluctuate on Tramadol and Metacam when their faces show strain and discomfort. Thnx to Naturestee & Randy for suggesting Tramadol.

Amazing what sweetness and kisses are bestowed back...

 

[TreasuredFriend]

From Nick:
3)I touched her in a way that I knew coco would not like, I could tell she was not in the mood..but I wanted to see her move. I SAW her back leg move...a tiny bit, but there was definite push type movement.

after reading alot online, I saw it was good to extend her back legs so they do not lock up, in case she does regain her ability to use them, they will still be in working shape.

4) While doing this..I felt a definite TUG from her. However small it was, it was not there yesterday.
---------------------

Re: 4). One of the tests our vet/s did to assess Karla and Tamm's diagnosis for recovery. Ability to regain limited use of those limbs!

Wow Nick, your and Steph's love for Coco will help everybody who cares for less-than-perfect companions. head strokes to your girl.

 

[TinysMom]

stephiemarie78 wrote:

Look at that sweet bunny face - she is such a cute rabbit.

I forget where it was said - but I agree that rabbits can handle disabilities better than we think they can. New Hope became a snuggler and GingerSpice might not have been a snuggler but she and I developed a close bond even if she did love to pee on me whenever I picked her up or moved her.

I put my rabbits in a plastic basket with a towel underneath them - then I bought cheap towels at Walmart/Dollar General and changed the towel daily or even a couple of times per day if needed.

Some people may be offended by these next photos - but I'm going to share them anyway.

I would put GingerSpice in her basket - sitting like a rabbit SHOULD sit...and before I knew it - she would put herself in this position....every time. Finally, I just fixed things so she had more support and this is the way she spent much of her days (sitting on my desk while I hand fed her and worked on the computer)..





Of course - Ginger didn't have the same problem Coco has....but she certainly seemed happy in spite of her disability. She was spoiled rotten and she knew it.

The only bad thing about keeping a disabled rabbit - is that it hurts like the dickens when they pass away ~ because you have developed such a close bond to them due to the fact that they NEED you to take care of them.

I'm so happy that you're taking some more time to evaluate Coco's situation...she may surprise you and do better than you think!

 

[Haley]

stephiemarie78 wrote:

She did drink some from the water bowl and she's eating hay!

Im tearing up a little here- what a beautiful picture of the two of you. It sounds like shes continuing to fight and possible even getting better.

Did the vet give you some pain meds? If not, I think you can use baby motrin but I would have to check on the dose. I agree with keeping her hydrated for now. Its great news that shes peeing on her own bc usuallya bunny with severe spinal problem has to have her bladder expressed.

I'll keep praying for your beautiful girl.

 

[stephiemarie78]

no the vet did not give us any pain meds. he said she was in no pain. I do believe that. I remember when Snoopy was having problems with his teeth and was in pain I could tell in his face that he was in pain. I don't think she would be moving around as much if she was in pain.

If I think she is in any pain I will get her some meds.