Unexpected Male Rabbit With Female

[hoeftam]

Hi!

We just got 2 Holland lops that were born on September 15th. We were told that both were females and sisters. They have been living together for 3 weeks in the same cage. I started to notice the larger of the two exhibiting some mating behaviors. I sent pictures to the breeder and it turns out he is a male. We have an appointment scheduled for next week to get him neutered. I am concerned that the two may have bred successfully since they are living together. Is this likely with them being such a young age and without any human assistance? I am worried because they are so young and because they are siblings. We don't really have a good way to separate them until his neuter appointment next week. Will they be ok until then? They are bonded and always sleep together. Is there anything I should do? How likely is it that they will have reproduced?

 

[JBun]

At nearly 5 months old, it is possible for her to get pregnant, but there's no way to say for sure. It would be best to separate them now if at all possible. There's a chance she isn't pregnant, but him staying in with her could change that. She is a little bit young, but not by too much. There could be some risk if she were to get pregnant, though it will also depend on her size and his size.

He'll still be fertile up to 6 weeks post neuter, so he still would need to be kept separate from her after the neuter until she's been spayed. If you got her spayed sooner(if the vet will spay her this young), then you wouldn't need to keep them separate for so long, but could rebond them once she's recovered from her spay and his hormones have calmed down enough post neuter.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Spaying_and_neutering_rabbits
https://rabbit.org/veterinarians/
https://rabbitsindoors.weebly.com/bonding-bunnies.html
http://cottontails-rescue.org.uk/information/bonding-bunnies/
https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Bonding_rabbits_together

 

[Diane R]

I would have both of them neutered at the same time ASAP. That way you don't have to separate them. In the UK, rabbit vets will spay from 16 weeks.

 

[John Wick]

They are bonded and always sleep together

Just a note -- the 'bond' between young rabbits is considered a baby bond, also known as the false bond. It is typically a very temporary state of getting-along simply because neither of the rabbits are old enough to be experiencing the hormonal pull to mate/defend/be territorial. They are not bonded rabbits at this point and separation will be both extremely tolerable and best for their safety, in addition to preventing pregnancy. They are many, many cases online you can find of owners in distress because their cuddly, 'bonded' young/sibling rabbits are no longer getting along and are viciously fighting each other.

https://rabbitsindoors.weebly.com/bonding-bunnies.html

 

[hoeftam]

At nearly 5 months old, it is possible for her to get pregnant, but there's no way to say for sure. It would be best to separate them now if at all possible. There's a chance she isn't pregnant, but him staying in with her could change that. She is a little bit young, but not by too much. There could be some risk if she were to get pregnant, though it will also depend on her size and his size.

He'll still be fertile up to 6 weeks post neuter, so he still would need to be kept separate from her after the neuter until she's been spayed. If you got her spayed sooner(if the vet will spay her this young), then you wouldn't need to keep them separate for so long, but could rebond them once she's recovered from her spay and his hormones have calmed down enough post neuter.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Spaying_and_neutering_rabbits
https://rabbit.org/veterinarians/
https://rabbitsindoors.weebly.com/bonding-bunnies.html
http://cottontails-rescue.org.uk/information/bonding-bunnies/
https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Bonding_rabbits_together

Thank you for responding. I really don't think we have a way to separate them. I will weigh them today. The male is bigger than the female, but not by much. We don't plan to spay the female until the fall because my kids are going to show her in the 4H fairs this summer and we cannot show her if she has been spayed. I wish that wasn't the case, but that is a rule. Both bunnies are very sweet and don't seem to be in any distress being housed together. The male isn't constantly chasing the female. I have only witnessed him attempting to mount her in the morning or at night. She doesn't seem to be upset by it. We have them out multiple times per day. We built them a cage that is 24 square feet. I might be able to add some kind of divider down the middle, but if we can keep them together it would be easier for us. I would need to get double of everything we have for them (another litter box, burrow, waterer, etc.). Just trying to do what is easiest, but also what is safest for the bunnies. I don't want to be cruel to them if keeping them together is harmful.

 

[John Wick]

Safest is separation-- you cannot be monitoring them 24/7 and all it takes is a moment for an injury to occur. If there is already some chasing and mounting, those are already clear signs that it is time.

 

[hoeftam]

Just a note -- the 'bond' between young rabbits is considered a baby bond, also known as the false bond. It is typically a very temporary state of getting-along simply because neither of the rabbits are old enough to be experiencing the hormonal pull to mate/defend/be territorial. They are not bonded rabbits at this point and separation will be both extremely tolerable and best for their safety, in addition to preventing pregnancy. They are many, many cases online you can find of owners in distress because their cuddly, 'bonded' young/sibling rabbits are no longer getting along and are viciously fighting each other.

https://rabbitsindoors.weebly.com/bonding-bunnies.html

Thank you for that information. I will keep a close eye on them and if they start to fight or act hostile towards each other I will figure out a way to separate them. They both live inside our house and we don't really have a good way to separate them. The breeder said she can take the male back, but he's very sweet and my kids love him. We'd rather keep him if we can.

 

[hoeftam]

Safest is separation-- you cannot be monitoring them 24/7 and all it takes is a moment for an injury to occur. If there is already some chasing and mounting, those are already clear signs that it is time.

The male hasn't been chasing the female excessively, he has just followed her around on occasion. They aren't running or anything like that. I've only seen the behavior a few times. We do monitor them closely because they live inside and we are home with them all day. My kids are homeschooled and spend quite a bit of time with the bunnies. His neuter is cheduled for this upcoming Tuesday.

 

[hoeftam]

I would have both of them neutered at the same time ASAP. That way you don't have to separate them. In the UK, rabbit vets will spay from 16 weeks.

We would get them both fixed, but we plan to show the female and we cannot show her if she is fixed. :/ we will be showing her this summer and can get her fixed in the fall.

 

[Preitler]

My advice would be, seperate them right now, or you'll be wading in baby bunnies soon. And then it get's interesting, not only will the doe be pregnant again when the buck is around when she kindles, you would have to seperate the first kits after 4 weeks, and then seperate boys and girls a month later, and so on - you'll need lots of space. And food. I know wading in baby bunnies is fun and great, but a lot of work and then there is the issue with rehoming them.
You won't have much fun showing a girl that young with back-to-back litters, that can take a toll, and she'll need not to be stressed..
Way easier to seperate them now, no matter how impossible it seems. And from now on act on the assumption that she is pregnant for the next 38 days, give her a nestbox and lots of hay now since you can't know if, or for how long she is already pregnant.

I've had does that got pregnant earlier, and those were much bigger breeds.

 

[Blue eyes]

Agree with others that say to separate immediately. Just use a divider as you mentioned. If she isn't pregnant she very well could become so between now and Tuesday.

He'll need to be separated from her while he heals anyway (and he can still get her pregnant after the surgery for a number of days until his hormones are fully dissipated).

Monitoring in an attempt to prevent him from impregnating her is honestly impossible as it takes just seconds for the deed to be done.

 

[Momma Luvbun]

You can separate with exercise pens. There is also small click square pens you can get off Amazon.
Those buns need to be separated so the doe doesn't end up pregnant, if she isn't already it happens quick!
Now get this one... A female can be impregnated more than once while pregnant. Ohh yes you read that right!!
Sometimes a female who is pregnant can get impregnated by a second litter and carry both sets, giving birth to double the amount within weeks of eachother. Don't doubt or question it, rather look it up and you'll see.

Lastly, I'd like to point out that not spaying females, creates a greater chance of cervical cancer.


Please don't put a program or club ahead of a buns wellbeing. .That isn't fair to them.
If you can't separate (although they'd need to be separated for 14 days atleast for recovery in a action limited space (no jumping or zooming) after fix surgery) then you owe it to them to do ALL you can to make sure they don't have an oops pregnancy and that means putting their intactness ahead of "showing" in a club

 

[hoeftam]

Agree with others that say to separate immediately. Just use a divider as you mentioned. If she isn't pregnant she very well could become so between now and Tuesday.

He'll need to be separated from her while he heals anyway (and he can still get her pregnant after the surgery for a number of days until his hormones are fully dissipated).

Monitoring in an attempt to prevent him from impregnating her is honestly impossible as it takes just seconds for the deed to be done.

I'm not monitoring them in an attempt to keep them from breeding, I'm monitoring them to make sure that they don't hurt each other and that they are safe. I know that you cannot monitor to keep them from breeding, that would be impossible. I was only asking what the likelihood is that they will breed at such a young age in the time between now and the male's neuter surgery on this upcoming Tuesday. We do have a play pen. I will set that up to keep them separated from now until after the male has healed from his surgery. How long does he need to be separated after the surgery? I am not sure of what the healing time is for rabbits. I am only familiar with dogs. Thank you.

 

[hoeftam]

You can separate with exercise pens. There is also small click square pens you can get off Amazon.
Those buns need to be separated so the doe doesn't end up pregnant, if she isn't already it happens quick!
Now get this one... A female can be impregnated more than once while pregnant. Ohh yes you read that right!!
Sometimes a female who is pregnant can get impregnated by a second litter and carry both sets, giving birth to double the amount within weeks of eachother. Don't doubt or question it, rather look it up and you'll see.

Lastly, I'd like to point out that not spaying females, creates a greater chance of cervical cancer.


Please don't put a program or club ahead of a buns wellbeing. .That isn't fair to them.
If you can't separate (although they'd need to be separated for 14 days atleast for recovery in a action limited space (no jumping or zooming) after fix surgery) then you owe it to them to do ALL you can to make sure they don't have an oops pregnancy and that means putting their intactness ahead of "showing" in a club

Thank you for your input. We plan to spay the female in the fall, after my kids are able to show her this summer. She will be around 8 months old. They are homeschooled and in 4H and rabbits are their project. They do not allow altered rabbits to be shown. I'm not sure why that is the case, but it is. I am not putting a club above my rabbit's health. It is a learning experience for my children, and yes, I will put my children above their rabbits. The rabbits are well cared for and not mistreated. I do not think that that is necessarily cruel to hold off on spaying the female temporarily.

I was mainly asking to see what the likelihood is that they could have reproduced at such a young age. We just found out that one is a male last week. We immediately got a neuter appointment scheduled for him when we found out. We will not be able to show the male once he is neutered, so we would like to at least be able to show the female.

 

[hoeftam]

My advice would be, seperate them right now, or you'll be wading in baby bunnies soon. And then it get's interesting, not only will the doe be pregnant again when the buck is around when she kindles, you would have to seperate the first kits after 4 weeks, and then seperate boys and girls a month later, and so on - you'll need lots of space. And food. I know wading in baby bunnies is fun and great, but a lot of work and then there is the issue with rehoming them.
You won't have much fun showing a girl that young with back-to-back litters, that can take a toll, and she'll need not to be stressed..
Way easier to seperate them now, no matter how impossible it seems. And from now on act on the assumption that she is pregnant for the next 38 days, give her a nestbox and lots of hay now since you can't know if, or for how long she is already pregnant.

I've had does that got pregnant earlier, and those were much bigger breeds.

We are getting the male neutered on Tuesday. We don't plan to house two fully-intact rabbits of different genders together. We just found out that one is a male last week. They have been housed together because we were told that both were females.

 

[Momma Luvbun]

Male rabbits need 7-10 days.
Females need 10-14 days.
Pain meds for the first day and bun can take up to 24 hrs to get eating and drinking so keep an eye on input/output in the first 24 hours.
Restricted movement space is needed (not able to jump or zoom) as is checking the incision site at least twice a day.
*It is important that you wait 30 days after surgery before making an introduction to other rabbits (this includes those who were previouly housed together). Males can have viable sperm for up to 30 days post-neuter!

 

[hoeftam]

Male rabbits need 7-10 days.
Females need 10-14 days.
Pain meds for the first day and bun can take up to 24 hrs to get eating and drinking so keep an eye on input/output in the first 24 hours.
Restricted movement space is needed (not able to jump or zoom) as is checking the incision site at least twice a day.
*It is important that you wait 30 days after surgery before making an introduction to other rabbits (this includes those who were previouly housed together). Males can have viable sperm for up to 30 days post-neuter!

Thank you for the information. I will make sure to have separate housing set up for that time. I need to get double of everything. I am a registered nurse with experience working in surgery (pre and post-op), although I am not familiar with veterinary practices, I do have experience with post-op care of patients. I hope I can take proper care of him post-neuter.

An unrelated topic - we are trying to litter train our rabbits. I know that they are still young and that litter habbits tend to improve post-neuter/spay. They are still going outside of the litter box. I clean it up promptly and use an enzymatic cleaner on the urine. Is there anything else I can do after his surgery to help them be better litter box users? I have hay racks and their food containers hanging inside the litter box. The litter box is larger enough for both of the bunnies to be in it at the same time. It is a large plastic storage container. They do go in the litter box, but still have accidents daily. I am using paper pellets (**any tips on how to scoop the poop out with paper pellets?? I cannot get the poop to scoop out, the paper pellets and poop just fall right through all litter scoops I've used**) I have to change the litter out every other day because it is saturated and/or full of poop. It is going to get expensive if I have to change out the litter every other day.

 

[Momma Luvbun]

You'll do fine.
So will your bun
I found the best way to check quickly is to hold up a treat that they need to stand up for.

I used toilet paper to dab up the pee and I put that into the litterbox. Then I'd take straight vinegar and dab the spot to take out the smell.
Any excess poops throw into the litterbox.
I still get what I call territorial poops but rarely do my buns pee outside the box.
I use ABM Talon pellets and use a 1litre margarine tub of them and pour over a few pages of newspaper. I cover that with hay and let them have at it for the day, adding handfuls of hay every few hours so they're getting fresh.
I roll the whole thing up between 7-8 every morning and do it all again.

 

[Blue eyes]

Thank you for the information. I will make sure to have separate housing set up for that time. I need to get double of everything. I am a registered nurse with experience working in surgery (pre and post-op), although I am not familiar with veterinary practices, I do have experience with post-op care of patients. I hope I can take proper care of him post-neuter.

An unrelated topic - we are trying to litter train our rabbits. I know that they are still young and that litter habbits tend to improve post-neuter/spay. They are still going outside of the litter box. I clean it up promptly and use an enzymatic cleaner on the urine. Is there anything else I can do after his surgery to help them be better litter box users? I have hay racks and their food containers hanging inside the litter box. The litter box is larger enough for both of the bunnies to be in it at the same time. It is a large plastic storage container. They do go in the litter box, but still have accidents daily. I am using paper pellets (**any tips on how to scoop the poop out with paper pellets?? I cannot get the poop to scoop out, the paper pellets and poop just fall right through all litter scoops I've used**) I have to change the litter out every other day because it is saturated and/or full of poop. It is going to get expensive if I have to change out the litter every other day.

It's the urine that is smelly with rabbits. Scooping poo isn't really needed or necessary since it isn't what makes the litter stinky. The easiest method of maintaining a litter box for rabbits (and also happens to be the most cost effective) is to use wood pellets for litter (more absorbent and less costly than paper pellets), topped with hay. You can see a more detailed description of this at my website on these pages:
https://rabbitsindoors.weebly.com/litter-training.htmlhttps://rabbitsindoors.weebly.com/odor-free-home.html

 

[Eerlen0103]

Wow what a beautiful good story. It reminds me of the not movie "Gone with the Wind". In the future, if I have a litter of babies, I guess I will have to buy equipment to isolate them so that the babies do not wander around and get lost. I think this is pretty good FairyBaby 40" Extra Tall Auto Close Big Dog Gate