Teeth problem

[Offspring2099]

On Friday I noticed that my mini-rex' (Penny's)cheek was a bit swollen, I used my hand to feel and indeed I felt a bump on her right cheek. Within minutes, I made an apt. for Sat morning to see my vet.

On Sat., the vet told me that he also could feel it, but will have to take x-ray, and Penny would have to be on antibiotics for 3 days prior.

On Tues (today), the vet took x-rays, and saw that Penny has a huge pus pocket. It spread so much that Penny lost two teeth (doctor extracted them) and in danger of losing two more. He said that it spread so much that he could see the roots of her molars. The pus was everywhere.

What kills me is that we never saw it coming. Penny was picky just a little bit about her food for the last two days, but that's it, before the pus pocket formed we had no warnings. I feel so horrible.

Doctor said that this happens to rabbits out of nowhere. Is he right, or am I doing something wrong? I'm pretty anal about keeping things neat for my rabbits, I mean I don't go washing things with Clorox bleach, but I shake their mats, proper diet, water change everyday.

Anyways, the best-case scenario is that Penny loses two teeth, maybe one or two more, and will be on antibiotics for 3-5 months.And I don't ever want to talk about the worst case.

Sorry for the novel, if anyone has the same experience please do share. Thanks for your time and thoughts.

 

[Haley]

Sorry to hear about your poor little Penny.

My max just had the same thing, a tooth root abscess. Was Penny's atthe root of a molar or a front incisor? Max's was in thefront. Luckily, I caught it right away (by accident actually after along problem with a runny nose). The doctor was able to remove thetooth and the abscess. Max is on antibiotics for a few weeks.

From what Ive read, this is quite common and there is no way to preventit. Youre great for getting her to the vet right away.Besides not eating, theres really no way to tell if there's an abscesspresent besides feeling around for a lump.

Heres my story:http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=15023&forum_id=16

Also, theres some great info in the RO resource center on abscesses andhow they form:http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=11791&forum_id=10and the new treatments that are available.

So Im guessing the vet was unable to remove the entireabscess? You might want to see about getting a referral to aveterinary dentist, if your vet doesnt specialize.

Sending lots of good thoughts and prayersPenny's way. ray: ray:

Haley

 

[Offspring2099]

Thank you for your thoughts. Read yourthread and will try the carot with antibiotic mix, because Penny hateseverything we ever tried. We always had to force it, which isno problem for us. My girlfriend and I got the processes downby now, but would rather have Penny eat on her own.

 

[Haley]

Good Luck!

I still have to force it a little bit (he sits on my lap and I put thesyringe in his mouth) but I know its tastes a little better with thatcarrot juice mixed in.

My other bun, Basil, will drink carrot juice straight out of a littlebowl, so if your bun will do this you could try just mixing theantibiotic in there.

Please keep us posted. Im keeping little Penny in my prayers. ray:

 

[Offspring2099]

Both of my rabbits like the smell of juices (andlike to drink it), but when they are sick they won't drink it, becausethey are so picky. I dont blame them, they are in pain.

I just talked to the Vet and got more details. (Last time mymom talked to the vet, I was at work). He told me Penny isdoing better. She is eating a little bit. About thesurgery, he said that he removed as much as infection as possible butit went into the bone. So we will be on antibiotic for awhile, if Penny will get another swelling anytimesoon,he will put in antibiotic packets under her skin, sothat its a straight shot, not through the body system.

My mom is on her way to get her, because she has the day off.I'm stuck at work worrying. Penny is a little trooper, I knowshe can make it.

 

[Offspring2099]

Haley,

What happens when the front tooth is removed? Will one tooth be enough for Max to chew on, in the front?

 

[Haley]

He actually still has the other three inscisorsso he's fine. We will have to trim the opposing tooth for now. If thetooth is growing too much, they will remove it later.

Some rabbits with severe teeth problems have all four of the frontinscisors removed and they have no trouble eating. they just learn touse their lips and chew with the molars.

Is the problem in the molars or the front? Did the vet say he was ableto pack the wound with anything to help it heal or are you just usingoral antibiotics? Ive heard good things about those beads he's talkingabout implanting..oral antibioticsusually doesnt get to theroot of the tooth enough,

 

[Offspring2099]

Haley,

Its the molars in the back, on the right side. Right now oralantibiotics, but yes beads is what he was talking about. You gotit. He said, he'll put it in, if the swelling comesback.

 

[Haley]

Sounds like you have someone who knows what he's doing!

You'll probably end up needing the beads. My doc said ifMax's abscess comes back (which they oftendo) thats whatwe're gonna do.As you said, its better bc its adirect antibiotic into the area, whereasoral ones are usuallytoo weak to penetrate that area at the base of the teeth.

Please keep me posted

 

[Offspring2099]

Thank you for your thought,

I talked to the vet again. He said he sent the pus into a lab to see ifbatryl will be strong enough to kill it. If not, it will bebeads time for Penny.

I haven't seen her yet, I will as soon as I get off work, but my momsays that her right cheek is shaved. My question is dofeelers grow back,and do they take a while?

 

[naturestee]

Her whiskers will grow back, although I'm not sure how long it will take.

Has your vet mentioned anything about injectable Bicillin(penicillin)? It's pretty commonly used for jaw abscess andthose where they can't be completely removed by surgery. It'sanother option to the bead.

http://www.ontariorabbits.org/health/healthinfo1.1.htm
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/jawabscess.html

And there's some more acticles here:
http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/rabrefs.html#abs

It's relatively new so your vet might not know about it yet.It's worth talking to him about if Penny needs a stronger antibiotic.

Keep us updated!

 

[Offspring2099]

I will talk to him about Bicillin. Ialways thought that penicillin was too strong of a antibiotic and willkill all the good bacteria in their stomach, but I'm reading thearticle now. THanks.

 

[naturestee]

You're right that oral penicillin is very badfor rabbits. If it's in the digestive system then it doestend to kill off all the necessary helpful bacteria, which can be fatalfor rabbits. But injected penicillin shouldn't enter theintestines and can begood if it's used correctly.

 

[Offspring2099]

I didn't notice Penny eat, last night, but shedid poop.So I'm hoping she munched onsomething. The only thing she is eating out of our hands isdrinking carrot juice. We have a little bit of parsley,banana, apple, try to give her a bit of critical care and wateredpellets, but she gives up after a few chews. I think she isstill in pain.

The doctor said, two doses of painkiller a day, .5cceach. But he said 3 times a day wouldn't hurther. Would that be to much? I'm afraid that shewould be so druged she wouldn't eat, but if she is in too much pain shewon't even lie down. When she is pain she just huddles up inthe ball and sits in the corner. But after we give herpainkillers she relaxes a bit.

That's what's been going on so far. Please let me know if I'm doing anything wrong. Thank you.

 

[Haley]

hmmm. its hard to say.

Naturesteesaid beforethat the pain killers actuallysent her bun into stasis, and was fine once taken off. But Pipp wonteat unless she has her painkillers.

It depends so much on the bun. Is she eating right after you give her the pain meds? And is she drinking enough too?

 

[naturestee]

I'd go for more painkillers if your vet said itwas okay. Also try syringing some lukewarm water or flavoredPedialyte into her. She might be a bit dehydrated, whichdoesn't help to make her feel good either.

Fey had the opposite reaction to painkillers. Instead ofrelaxing like Penny does, she hunched up in a corner and stopped eatingor moving. Since Penny relaxes after you give her thepainkiller, it's making her feel better and not worse.

Maybe she'd like the Critical Care if it was watered downmore? You could mix a little carrot juice in it if she likesthat. My buns love canned pumpkin as a treat, and I hide medsin it and use it for syringing food. Maybe she'd like alittle of that? You need to use 100% pure pumpkin, not thepumpkin pie mix.

 

[Offspring2099]

Haley wrote:

hmmm. its hard to say.

Naturesteesaid beforethat the pain killers actuallysent her bun into stasis, and was fine once taken off. But Pipp wonteat unless she has her painkillers.

It depends so much on the bun. Is she eating right after you give her the pain meds? And is she drinking enough too?

I haven't seen her eat really. But she drink the carrot juice and water from saucer, not the bottle.

***

naturestee,

I'm going to get some pumpkin, and see if she eats that and will waterdown critical care. Thanks for the tips, I'll keep youinformed.

 

[Haley]

hmm..I dont know, but in my opinion,I probably wouldnt increase the pain meds, especially if you havent seen her eat.

Try a little pumpkin on a spoon if you can. Another good one is tocrush up her pellets in a coffee grinder/processor..mix in a littlewater and pumpkin or banana to flavor it a little.

Just be sure she is getting some solid food down (and lots of liquid with the meds)

Good Luck!

 

[naturestee]

Are you syringing food into her mouth or justputting it in a bowl for her? She probably needs her foodsyringed, and she'll feel bad if she doesn't have anything in hersystem.

Do you have a water bowl for her? A bottle might hurt a little to drink from because she'd have to work harder.

 

[Pipp]

What kind of pain meds? They usuallygiveMetacam (Meloxicam), but .5 is a high dosefor a mini-Rex. Pipp, a dwarf, gets half that every 24hours. So it may be something else.

FWIW, Metacam takes close to 10 hours to work, and has to be taken withfood to prevent an an upset tummy and with liquids to help with thekidneys. (It restricts blood flow to the kidneys andshouldn't be given to dehydrated rabbits).

If it's not Metacam, nevermind! (Although the above is true for almost all NSAIDs, which would include Motrin, etc).

Pipp also does better with a syringe even when taking herjuice. It maybe because the angle makes it easier to avoidthe sore spot(s), or she has a sore tongue from her spurs and doesn'thave to lap much.

Definitely syringe feed her a pellet slurry asap, even if you have tomix it with the carrot juice (or banana or whatever else shelikes).

It's tough because not only is the abscess spot sore, her jaw will bevery sore from being cranked open, which makes syringe feeding not sogreat if she won't take it willingly. But she absolutely hastoeat. That's critical.

Good luck with her.

sas