Sudden death...cause?

[murph72]

A friend gave my number to her daughter's friend's dad. It seems he recently had a bun die suddenly and he was hoping I might have a clue as to what went wrong. My guess is E.C....but I could be totally off track here. He wants to know what it might have been before introducing another bun into the family to bond with his current bun.

The bunny that passed was about a year old. He wasn't quite sure of the breed of rabbit as he bought it at a pet store and they didn't identify it for him. I haven't seen a picture, so I have no clue.

He said the bunny went downhill fast. It started by losing control of its back quarters. Within 12 hours it went from this paralysis, which was also accompanied by some nasal discharge, to extreme weakness and eventually death. He had made an appointment with the vet, but by that time it was too late and the bunny was far too weak to have even made the trip.

My guess was E.C. due to the paralysis, but I could be totally off base. I'm not sure about the nasal discharge and why the bun would pass so quickly. I'd like to find him an answer as he has two young girls who want closure as to what caused their pet to pass. He'd also like to bond another bunny with a mini lop he currently has that was bonded to the deceased bunny, but he wants to make sure it's safe to do so. I suggested Vanodine as a disinfectant, but I was hoping someone might know what caused the illness.

Thanks for any help you can offer. From my phone conversation, this seems like a really nice family. Dad is a nurse and tried to do all that he could to save the little guy. He's just looking for some answers and I'm afraid I don't have the right ones to give him.

Dyan

 

[pla725]

A necropsy may shed some light as to the cause of death.

I've bonded rabbits who have been exposed to EC to new partners. No problems yet.

 

[Pipp]

Very sad.

I doubt it was EC, it'san opportunistic bug that takes advantage of compromised systems, I don't think it killsyoung or fast.

Is there a chance of poisoning? I'd look very closely for potenial toxic substancesthat could jeopardize another rabbit.

I think a necropsy has to be done soon after death,especially one requiring tissue samples.



sas

 

[yaya551]

That sounds like exactly what happened to Celie.

 

[Pipp]

yaya551 wrote:

That sounds like exactly what happened to Celie.

So sorry... how old was she? :?

Unfortunately a lot of symptoms are just end-stage reactions. It is very hard to know without a necropsy, and even then they can be inconclusive. (At least they can rule some things out).

sas

 

[ra7751]

Hi Dyan,

There is no way that was EC. Too fast. EC is a wasting type issue that compromises the immune system. Most rabbits that have active EC will be lost to renal failure....but that takes a while.

I suspect something different here....and this might be little harsh....but I have seen it before. How young are his children? Where did they find the rabbit on initial presentation of the paralysis? Any way that his back could have been injured...maybe being picked up incorrectly...maybe getting stuck in something, maybe on aslick floor? All the symptoms are indicative of spinal trauma. Since Dad is a nurse....he will probably understand L7 spinal luxation. Sometimes the action causing the spinal issue will cause a "torsion" or twisting of a major body part....liver or intestines are a prime candidate for torsion. A "broken back" will obviously lead to paralysis. The pain of the injury, especially with a torsion event,will result in stress....the discharge at the nose was most likely active sweat glands due to pain and anxiety related to the injury....much like a lathering horse that has foundered. A L7 luxation will also cause the loss of bladder control....it won't empty and that leads to some toxicity issues. And 12 hours sounds about right without immediate and aggressive intervention. And if torsion was involved, they only possibility would have been an immediate and hugely invasive surgery and the prognosis would have been extremely poor.

Might be totally off base....but I have seen the exact same thing several times. Usually happens during grooming or nail trims....or when they are scruffed without hind leg support. Regardless, a tragic situation...and it sounds like a good bunny family.

Randy

 

[yaya551]

Pipp wrote:

yaya551 wrote:

That sounds like exactly what happened to Celie.

So sorry... how old was she? :?

Unfortunately a lot of symptoms are just end-stage reactions. It is very hard to know without a necropsy, and even then they can be inconclusive. (At least they can rule some things out).

sas

She was just a baby, probably only 6 months old. She died in my hands a few hours after I got her home from the vet. Probably one of the most traumatizing things that has ever happened to me. I still miss her a ton.

 

[Maureen Las]

yaya551 wrote:

Pipp wrote:

yaya551 wrote:

That sounds like exactly what happened to Celie.

So sorry... how old was she? :?

Unfortunately a lot of symptoms are just end-stage reactions. It is very hard to know without a necropsy, and even then they can be inconclusive. (At least they can rule some things out).

sas

She was just a baby, probably only 6 months old. She died in my hands a few hours after I got her home from the vet. Probably one of the most traumatizing things that has ever happened to me. I still miss her a ton.

Very sad to lose a rabbit that way ..so quickly..............

 

[yaya551]

Thanks guys, I still tear up quite a bit over it. She was very special to me.

 

[murph72]

Randy,

Thanks for the reply. I will tell the dad when I talk to him tonight what your take was on the situation. I'm sure he'd be much happier hearing this scenario than thinking his other bunny is jeopardized (which is what he was fearing). He didn't want the kids to have to see another pet go so soon, and he wasn't sure how he could prevent it from happening. The second bunny is only about 6 months old, so he feared the same thing could take that one around a year of age. He is really interested in bonding the remainingbun with a new one but didn't want to jeopardize another bunny if it wasn't safe.

It's so nice having someone to talk to that knows as much as you do about bunny health. You're really a blessing to have on the forum. Thanks so much for all your help.

Dyan

 

[tonyshuman]

I wanted to mention that almost all bunnies have at one time been exposed to EC, so introducing a bunny with an active case to a bunny without an active case isn't likely to cause the healthy bunny to get an active case. Any bunny that has spent time in a shelter environment and many rabbitries will have been exposed to it and have it lying dormant. An EC titer (which is expensive) can tell you the level of EC in the bunny if you are concerned about it. A high level will indicate an active infection or one that is gaining strength to become active. EC will be present (like I said) in almost all buns at sub-clinical levels, just like most people carry the oral herpes (cold sore) virus at all times but it is increased when they get an active sore (due to stress).

It does sound like something more serious due to the quick progression of the disease, and very few things cause paralysis other than EC and spinal cord injury. I think Randy is on the right track that it was a spinal injury, but disinfecting everything is not a bad idea in any case. I disinfect hamster cages by soaking in hot water with bleach for at least 15 min, followed by a good rinse.

 

[Hopalong]

We have had two bunnies die very suddenly withing the last few months and still haven't figured out from what. Our best guess is that the mother and father were to closely related(brother and sister we believe) and that there was a genetic problem.
Twinkie was 1 year and 2 months when she died and Creampuff was 1 year 4 months when she died. They were both acting totally normal, eating, drinking, playing and then within a few hours they were dead. There was no sign of illness,or injury at all. We couldn't find anything that they could have gotten into such as poison either. We wish we could find out though as we wonder if any of our other bunnies could be at risk. Also we have two friends who have bunnies from the same litter.

This may sound dumb but what is E.C?

 

[Maureen Las]

E-cuniculi is a protozoan infection that is present in many rabbits but kept at check by a healthy immune system. When the rabbit gets older or develops other medical issues that compromise the immune system often the E-cuniculi symtoms will show themselves. it often begins with weakness or dragging in the left hind leg and is a progressive disease. In time it will affect the organs especially the kidneys of the rabbit. Ithas been treated with thede wormers which sometimes stop the replication of the parasitewhile the rabbit is taking the meds...but often it won't help at all or the symtoms return when the rabbit is off meds.

Randy is worling with his vets in using a new drug (primarily for horses) calledMarquis as a treatment for EC but this is really something that is not yet commonly used in the veterinary world.

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=14471&forum_id=10

 

[tonyshuman]

Like angieluv said, EC is very unlikely to cause a sudden death. It can take months or years for EC to claim a bunny's life, and some bunnies, if treated properly, can go into complete remission for years.

I would personally expect that genetic problems might show up much sooner in the animal's life--for instance, I have had a few hamsters with probable genetic problems (due to rampant inbreeding in hamster populations) that died, one within 4 months of age, and the other within 6 months of age. Most genetic conditions in other animals or even people also crop up very early in development. It will be very difficult to determine what caused the deaths of your two, hopalong, especially with limited information. The best thing you can do if possible is have a necropsy conducted if the animal dies of suspicious circumstances. If you'd like we could go over all the symptoms involved in their death and try to find a cause as well.

 

[krsbunny]

Hi Hopalong,

I also lost a pair of brothers, both suddenly,during 2008 and (one in Feb and one in Aug). Both were fine at night, not fine in the morning, saw a good bunny vet that day, and both died within 48 hours. The first was diagnosed with e.c. because of paralysis, butthat didn't "feel right" to me at the time because it came on suddenly. The second was diagnosed with stasis and died within an hour of getting home from the vet.

Like you, I suspect a genetic problem. Both were the gray fur that sheds as tan (sorry... don't know colors but would like to learn). They were the only two in a litter of 8 that were that color. The other 6 are still alive (not with me, but with a close friend). The parents were sold by a pet store as two males and were confirmed as males by a vet. I am guessing two were closely related (and possibly littermates). My two boys (Merlin and Houdini) came to me at age 4 weeks ... when mom gave birth to a second litter. Four of those went to a friend/rescuer in Texas ... and one of those died just as suddenly (she was not the same color). Because both of mine died on weekends, I did not have a necropsy done. However, my friend did, but results were inconclusive.

Dr. Allan has seen several other cases of sudden death in the last year ... all from watchful caregivers who were quick to seek veterinary care.

Unfortunately, one of the things rabbits have taught me (not just about themselves but about life)is that the more I learn the less I feel I "know." Back to rabbits, though, I believe that if we (as rabbit enthusiasts) are to find answers toquestions like this ... and toperhaps one day defeat enemies likee.c. ... it will happen through forums like this where rescuers, show people, breeders, individual pet owners ... (and hopefully a few vets?) can share ideas and experiences and brainstorm solutions.

I owe much to the rescue community, for that is where I learned much of what I know about rabbits. However, I also know that, much as we would like it to be otherwise, there are no "one size fits all" answers for rabbit health and care (cheap plug for the article Lucile Moore and I have in the new issue of Rabbits USA magazine). I am actively doing research for the 3rd Edition of Rabbit Health in the 21st Century. It is being completely restructured and rewritten ...

I am soliciting input from breeders and show people as well as rescuers. If you know someone who has valuable information on health issues, please put them in touch with me (my e-mail address is readily available online). Every person who contacts me will be listened to, treated with respect [I, too, have had run-ins with some rescuers], and credited with any specific information that I use from them (unless they prefer not to be). I do occasionaly get "buried in e-mail" ... and things occasionally get "lost in cyberspace" ... so if they don't hear back from me in a day or two (at least to say "hi", "thanks", and "I'm buried, but will file this and contact you when I get to that topic") ... please have them e-mail again!

Kathy Smith

 

[naturestee]

Kathy, are there any topics in particular that you'd like to see forum threads from? A lot of the ones with clear details are archived in our Library section for easy reference. Most of our members are then one private message away. Or I can always volunteer myself and our newly added Library slave moderator to pull out info for you.

 

[Pipp]

Just read this in Dr. Holly Carter's Blog... (She's a UK Vet who moved to WA State not long ago).
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http://animalhealthcare.blogspot.com/2008/04/rabbit-emergencies.html

SUNDAY, APRIL 20, 2008

Rabbit Emergencies

I was reminded again this week how important it is to have your rabbit examined at the first sign of it being unwell.

Rabbits are a prey species, and as such WILL NOT show signs of illness until they can't cope any more and often are about to die. If a prey species shows signs of weakness in the wild, they are more likely to be picked up by a predator, so those who can be stoic in the face of pain have a greater chance of survival.

The rabbit patient of note this week had been fine the previous morning. The previous afternoon it was "resting" in it's cubby and didn't eat its dinner. That was the point at which it needed to be examined. Unfortunately it didn't come in until the next morning by which time it was going into shock and died before lunch despite treatment for the shock.

Before he died, we had gotten as far as taking some radiographs and had identified a problem in the region of the liver/stomach. Fortunately the owners gave us permission to perform a necropsy (post-mortem examination) to find out what was going on. It turned out that this very-well cared for and well-loved pet had a torsed liver lobe: one of the lobes of the liver had twisted, cutting off its blood supply, and then ruptured, sending blood pouring into the abdomen and causing the shock.

I had never run into this condition before in rabbits, but an online literature search revealed it is "not uncommon" and often is identified in well-cared-for rabbit pets, often house rabbits. Those who survived had been given fluids and supportive care early and the condition had been diagnosed with blood tests (raised liver enzymes indicating damage to the liver) and ultrasound as well as radiographs. One even got as far as surgery in which the offending lobe was removed. Unfortunately our patient didn't live long enough for us to get to that point.

So the lesson for the week is to get your rabbit down to the vet's the minute it refuses food or behaves oddly, and be prepared financially if they ask you to allow some diagnostics - radiographs, ultrasound, blood tests - along with hospitalisation and fluid support. It may be a matter of life or death.