Something is possible happening ?

[Thumperina]

Not long ago I lost one of my rabbits, FooFoo, there is a thread about her.

Now I am down to two rabbits, a male and a female (5 and 5.5 yo)
They spend their day in the yard and go inside for the night. If the weather is not good, like wet or too cold and windy, Paul (the male) may not want to come out and we don't insist. Thumperina always wants to go outsise.

Yesterday I noticed that Paul was in some kind of distress. I saw him sitting in the middle of the yard, doing some repetitive head movements and I think his breathing was more frequent than normal. He looked restless. Usually they stay under the bush or under the deck or under under plastic crates that we have for them. I brought him inside, cleaned the rug that they use so that I can see if he poops or not. He was shaking and scratching his ears a lot, so I thought maybe he had mites. In summer , I treated them with Revolution twice but then I ran out of it, needed another trip to the vet and never picked up another dose. I looked in his ears and didn't see much. While he was sitting there, he pooped some poop and ate some veggies.

All this was happening on Friday 4pm, my closest vet didn't wish to see us (they were about to close), so I ended up going there and getting another dose of Revolution that I applied to both rabbits upon arrival home.

I'd say that after this Paul calmed down and I think he is acting as normal.
He has great appetite.

Now I am concerned about Thumperina who isn't spayed. I have been sick myself, I finally feel better after being sick for a month (during that month FooFoo passed) so I am preparing to take more care of Thumperina, consult several vets about spaying her and so on.

Anyway, looking at her now, I am thinking that maybe she is not well too.
SHe also looks kinda restless, and her breathing rate, I think, maybe higher than normal. (what is a normal breathing rate for them? )
She was also found sitting in the yard not under cover, I see her also being restless and doing some strange movements (can't even describe... moving her head in a strange way, shaking her head, doing movements with her jaw like if she is eating but she is not ...)
she did eat some kale this morning but not all of it... I am not able to tell you if she poops OK. to tell, I will need to separate her watch her while she is alone. I just saw that another rabbit pooped a lot and he ate well...

Oh one thing that I can't explain and FooFOo had this too before she died. Fur at the base of her ears looks like it was wet and then dried... not smooth. DOes it suppose discharge from the ears? I don't see anything wrong inside the ears. just the fur at the ear base looks strange.

I will be taking her to the vet on MOnday, but I am not sure what they even need to look at... vet here are not rabbit vets... not very experienced.

 

[Thumperina]

If they have mites, would revolution take care of the problem or do I need some crazy steps like disinfecting all their stuff?

 

[ladysown]

why not instead of guessing what is going on with them.. why don't you just bring them to the vet? It doesn't sound like mites, unless they have gone really deep and caused an infection. You'll need meds to clear that up.

 

[Thumperina]

why not instead of guessing what is going on with them.. why don't you just bring them to the vet? It doesn't sound like mites, unless they have gone really deep and caused an infection. You'll need meds to clear that up.

it's weekend, they are closed. I actually drove with Thumperina towards the vet that was only open for couple of hours, but while driving I gave them a call and was told that the vet that sees rabbits wasn't there at all. so I had to turn back home.
plus, I am not sure that the vets that I have here would be able to pinpoint the problem easily, so it's good to have some ideas what it could be from experienced rabbit owners

 

[Thumperina]

she is possibly not pooping.

Can they have blockage due to digested hair?

How can I help her poop until Monday? She usually eating grass in the yard and not very keen of hay...

 

[Thumperina]

I also see that she is trying to eat poop - not cecal poop but pelleted poop... couple of days ago I saw her trying to eat poop out of the littler box that had some wood shavings stuck to it... can this be causing a problem?
I just bought simethicon drops

 

[Aki]

OK, so first you have to make sure if they are both eating and pooping by putting them with food and a clean litter box for a few hours. A rabbit in stasis is not hard to spot, they will generally move around very little and appear to be in pain (hunched position, possible shaking, possible gritting of teeth). If they are not and that you don't have metacam / reglan you'll have to get them to an emergency vet or to call one to come over depending on what's avaiblable where you live - they can't wait until Monday. If they are pooping and eating let them be in a quiet place (no going outside, you can't monitor them, it's getting cold and it's not a place for rabbits who are poorly) and take both of them to the vet on Monday to have them thoroughly examined.

 

[Thumperina]

please don't forget that my rabbits have been raised outside, they do eat what grows outside (grass) and unfortunately don't eat very much what is given to indoors bunnies (hay). they also don't drink water (at least I don't see them drinking at all, and this is how it has been for years)
when i came to check on them this morning when the sun was up (this is when they are usually let out), I saw Thumperina finishing a piece of veggie (I removed pellets by recommendation that I read online for GI stasis), she was moving very quickly, she ran towards me to see if I brought a treat (I didn't ) and then when I opened the door, she quickly ran outside (its not cold today... over 50F in the morning and should be almost 70F during the day but it's been drizzling and wet) and soon after, I saw her eating leaves in the yard... I know this sounds kinda questionable (if this is the best routine for potentially sick rabbit), I am planning to bring her indoors alone to check her poop, I still think that her poop is very small...
we don't have luxury of emergency vet on Sunday, only emergency vet that can put to sleep (this is I was told)

 

[Thumperina]

I think she has some discomfort from internal issue and she may be in some pain which is causing her not eat very well...she is stubborn as hell, too..
Just saw her shaking her head/ears hard like if ears were itchy.
I really hope that tomorrow at 8am when the vets open it won't be late to help her.

 

[Thumperina]

is this correct that I shouldn't force syringe feed her unless it's confirmed by the vet that it's safe to do?

 

[Thumperina]

are kitty's malt flavored hairball remedies safe for rabbits? I want to go buy some

 

[Thumperina]

She has eaten some veggies but her poops are small and just a few of them.. gave her 2 ml of simethicon

 

[Thumperina]

update after visiting the vet
Thumperina lost a little over 1 lbs recently
the vet did X ray and she thinks it's uterine cancer that spread and surgery isn't an option.
She also has her hip in a bad shape but it has been this way for years (it was seen on X ray several years ago), surprisingly, she is getting around rather well.
The vet gave me supply of metacam and critical care... we will see how it goes.
I just gave her 30 ml of critical care and she took it rather well. I also saw her eating some veggies, I think metacam made her feel a bit better.
A question - how much critical care do i need to feed her?
Of course, I am devastated but I try to accept it.. I am concerned about her bonded male companion... he would be left alone.

 

[doodlebugger]

I'm really sorry for what you are going through. The questions you are asking really aren't something that can be easily figured out by people here because most of us have indoor rabbits I think. Our vet thought our female rabbit had uterine cancer also, but agreed to do the surgery to verify if that was the case. Turned out to be an infected uterus instead (forget the name for it), and she was fine after she had the surgery and recovered. Can you get a second opinion? Is your vet rabbit savvy?

 

[Thumperina]

I'm really sorry for what you are going through. The questions you are asking really aren't something that can be easily figured out by people here because most of us have indoor rabbits I think. Our vet thought our female rabbit had uterine cancer also, but agreed to do the surgery to verify if that was the case. Turned out to be an infected uterus instead (forget the name for it), and she was fine after she had the surgery and recovered. Can you get a second opinion? Is your vet rabbit savvy?

thank you. I will see how it goes... if she makes it far enough for the second opinion.
She is eating some veggies, and some critical care. However... I just saw some blood in the littler box. Never seen it before

This vet thinks about herself that as rabbit specialist. She has 5 rabbits of her own.

Several years ago Thumperina had urine scald when I brought her to this vet. Back then, the vet said that the urine problem was due to being "too furry" (she is a large bun). everybody here thought such reason sounded like BS

NOt sure if she is savvy... I hope she is

 

[Thumperina]

Is it better to give metacam twice a day or once? we are prescribed to give 2ml once a day but I thought maybe to break it down into 2 doses

Not even sure if I am doing her a favor trying to extend her life, feeding critical care, and so on... there is a little bit of blood in litter box. What you think?

two rabbits that passed in my household before her, passed instantly.

 

[JBun]

If she seems uncomfortable and in pain that it is severely affecting her quality of life, then I wouldn't want to prolong her suffering. However, if her pain seems to be controlled well, and she still seems happy enough and can continue to do her rabbity things, I would be inclined to let her continue to enjoy her life and being with her bun friend. Though you do have to keep evaluating her condition, watching for any decline in life quality.

With the metacam, I prefer to give it twice a day. It's better coverage as it starts to wear off much sooner than 24 hours, then they are in pain until the next dose. It is usually recommended to give twice daily dosing by experienced rabbit vets, and usual recommended daily maintenance dosing is 0.3-0.6mg/kg per day, so you would have to know the metacam concentration(eg. 1.5mg/ml or the 0.5mg/ml suspension) and your buns weight to figure if she is getting the right dose. Many inexperienced rabbit vets often prescribe far under the recommended dose, so it basically doesn't help control the pain well, if at all. So making sure the right dose is given and that it is actually helping your bun, is important.
http://vgr1.com/metacam/ (dosing reference)

 

[Thumperina]

If she seems uncomfortable and in pain that it is severely affecting her quality of life, then I wouldn't want to prolong her suffering. However, if her pain seems to be controlled well, and she still seems happy enough and can continue to do her rabbity things, I would be inclined to let her continue to enjoy her life and being with her bun friend. Though you do have to keep evaluating her condition, watching for any decline in life quality.

With the metacam, I prefer to give it twice a day. It's better coverage as it starts to wear off much sooner than 24 hours, then they are in pain until the next dose. It is usually recommended to give twice daily dosing by experienced rabbit vets, and usual recommended daily maintenance dosing is 0.3-0.6mg/kg per day, so you would have to know the metacam concentration(eg. 1.5mg/ml or the 0.5mg/ml suspension) and your buns weight to figure if she is getting the right dose. Many inexperienced rabbit vets often prescribe far under the recommended dose, so it basically doesn't help control the pain well, if at all. So making sure the right dose is given and that it is actually helping your bun, is important.
http://vgr1.com/metacam/ (dosing reference)

JBun thank you
She is prescribed 2 ml per day of 1.5 mg/ml , being 8 lbs, it gives slightly more, about 0.8 mg/kg/day
I have read that rabbits that get metacam need to be well hydrated to avoid problem with kidneys, I think we have a problem with it. I do give her critical care, but after 2 syringes (15 ml each) she becomes very inpatient and not cooperating. I give her 30 ml of critical care per feeding, and I feed 4 times a day (its hard to do more) so she definitely not receiving enough. She eats very little (veggies) on her own. I see her eating occasionally a leaf in the yard. She ate a few apple slices, a bit of Simple rewards veggie treats, she never refuses a small piece of banana (but this all is sugar...)
I wonder if she still develops stasis with this kind of nutrition. I don;t know any longer if she poops and what she poops (I see a little bit of blood in the litterbox) . They are sitting together and there is plenty of poop but her companion unfortunately eats for two...

 

[Thumperina]

It is usually recommended to give twice daily dosing by experienced rabbit vets, and usual recommended daily maintenance dosing is 0.3-0.6mg/kg per day,

hold on... do we divide daily dose by 2 if we give it twice a day, or literally "give twice daily dosing"? if she is prescribed 2 ml per day, do I give her 2 ml twice a day (4ml total) or 1 ml twice a day?

 

[JBun]

It would be the prescribed 2ml dose split into two doses, so 1ml twice a day. She's already getting higher than the usual dose, which is ok if it's what your vet feels is needed, but you don't want to be doubling it. And remember, this twice daily dosing is just what I do as it's what my vet prescribes and what is recommended by other experienced rabbit vets. If you have questions about your own rabbits dosing, you should discuss it with your own vet.

Will she eat the critical care on her own if you offer it to her in a dish? If not, all you can do is your best to get her to take as much as possible without stressing her too much.

With the head shaking that you were describing earlier, did the vet make sure to check her ears and her teeth to make sure they aren't contributing to her not eating very well?