So,....you're thinking about breeding? Read this and think some more!

katt · Jan 11, 2010

i understand completely peg.

i myself have considered from time to time wanting to go back into breeding. as hard as it was, and as many risks that are taken, there will always be some form of love for improving a breed.i always get a little baby sad in the spring when it would be normal time for me to have nestboxes full of babies and growing my showstock up for the year. and during the year i have moments were i am like 'wait, something is missing' and often times it is right around when a big, yearly show would be. i was talking to my mom about it the other day, and she agrees. says that she has those moments too. she will randomly call me once in a while with a "omg, don't you think *insert name here* would be perfect for an orange holland lop". i don't think the breeder in me will ever fully leave.

i think your doing the right thing. i hope that you didn't take my post as a 'maybe you shouldn't breed' thing. it wasn't. if anything your concern for your rabbits, and your love for them is what makes you a great breeder. it isn't just that you are trying to improve the breed (that your not just breeding to have babies) but before they are stock, or rabbits, they are pets. that is huge in my book. i always felt bad for the ones that were placed in cages and givin no name, no chance to shine and show a great personality. those are the breeders that scare me. the ones that are breeding to produce. that don't care about the cull or pet quality animals that are in every litter. or even the ones that refuse to put a show quality rabbit into a pet home, even if it has the perfect personality as a house bunny.

that is the biggest thing, why i have so much respect for you (because i really do), you care. not only do you care about your animals, but you care about rabbits in general.

keep it up. the world needs more breeders like you.

TinysMom · Jan 11, 2010

Katt - I understood what you were saying. The truth is - I still struggle a bit sometimes wondering if I'm doing the right thing.

But then I think about my reasons and motivation and the way I work with my bunnies...and I have peace about it.

TinysMom · Jan 12, 2010

Something else has come up that I want to share about - for those who are considering breeding. I never really thought about it until yesterday - and I know what I'm bringing up is a controversial subject. But it needs to be brought up I think so people can think ahead of time about it.

What do you do if you have a litter (or two litters) but you have more babies than mama can provide milk for....and you can see that they're not doing as well as the others.

You can try to formula feed them (which is what I'm doing) - but I'm finding myself wondering if by trying to keep ALL of the babies alive - I'm stunting the growth or health of some of the stronger ones.

I now understand why some breeders will "cull" from birth - by keeping the healthiest X amount of babies and then putting down the others so that the babies they keep will have the best chance of survival.

I'm not saying that I could do that. But I now understand the reasoning behind that.

These two litters have taught me that Mother Nature oftentimes provides more babies because life is set up so that the strongest survive and the weakest pass on early. I imagine that if Athena were in the wild with her litter of 11 - probably 6 or maybe 8 would have made it this far - because there would not be anyone there to supplement with formula.

There are a couple of quotes from Star Trek movies that I like...

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...or the one." - from The Wrath of Khan

and

"the needs of the one... outweigh the needs of the many. " - from The Search for Spock

Do you possibly put the whole litter at risk by trying to save one or two - or do you not?

Its a tough question - one I'm currently answering by formula feeding the smallest and hoping they catch up.

I have to give them a chance....

wabbitmom12 · Jan 12, 2010

TinysMom wrote:

I now understand why some breeders will "cull" from birth - by keeping the healthiest X amount of babies and then putting down the others so that the babies they keep will have the best chance of survival.

I'm not saying that I could do that. But I now understand the reasoning behind that.

You and I discussed that once, after it was apparent that Lil' Blue was not going to be normal. I would not condemn anyone for having to make that choice in their rabbitry...but I could not do it personally...at this point.

Those that breed strictly to "further the breed" - especially if they have limited cage space and resources - probably have to make that choice more often. And I have never heard of a breeder who put the mama at risk (pregnancy), just to "off" most of her offspring. (Although it probably happens occasionally if an entire litter is inferior or abnormal). I think most have a set standard they have made for themselves, and they follow it so they don't have to agonize over it each time. I understand that.

It certainly is something people need to think through ahead of time. If you aren't going to cull (and most of us won't)...how will you handle the challenge of "too many" or "imperfect" offspring?

paul2641 · Jan 12, 2010

Ahh Peg you are a real sweat-heart you really do love all the animals that come into your care!

I really hope that your confidence builds and you continue to get closer to your goal of "perfecting the breed" and also having them friendly like pet bunnies!

DeniseJP · Jan 16, 2010

TinysMom wrote:

When Nyx arrived here - there was a MAJOR difference between her and the others. She wasn't skittish or afraid. She was confident of herself and liked being around humans. She wasn't afraid to run and play and be herself.

I believe it is because she was raised in a "pet home" with Dave and Karen so she was a few steps ahead of the others in being able to relate to humans and enjoy them.

That is my goal for the rabbits that come from here. Yes - I'd like them to do well on the show tables and I want to "improve the breed".

BUT - there is more to a rabbit's life than a few hours every month at shows....there's the everyday relationship they have with the person they live with.

That is my focus - and that is what sets me apart from many other breeders (at least here in Texas) and why I want to keep breeding.

So I will risk the heartache and the sadness - and even the expense - because in the long run - I know I will bring joy to the lives of others.

Again well said. With my first Holland line some twelve years agoI wish had the benefit of the knowledge I gained as an RO member...that rabbits have feelings and are so expressive. I cared well for the first line but they did not get the attention the new line has... and while I did get chinned and binkies and requests for nose rubs from the more gregarious, I have now looked for it in my shy buns.

Segal, my standoffish, snobby show Holland that I love dearly even though he has no table manners at the moment, has been chinning me and giving me half binkies. He is telling me "I think we are teaching you well!"

Grace, the "savage" Checkered Giant, has been seeking my attention when she sees me with a container of Yogies, her favorite treat. I cannot resist her head peeking above the lid of the cage and she is well mannered for her treats. We were nose to nose yesterday and I do not have a nose piercing to show for it!

Great, great thread!

Denise