So.. she makes a nest

[zuppa]

Smokey is a lop I have her for 5 weeks now I was told she was born about 12th-13th November or maybe 23rd October so it's 3,5-4 months now.

So because it's 5 weeks already she wasn't pregnant when I've got her and yes I have two male rabbits but they all three have their own cages and only meeting for a really short time when I see them, Leo (3,5 months old is very passionate about her but she won't let him to mount her she is moving too fast and he just has no chance). Same with Fred (he's an adult rabbit found in cardboard box he's very placid rabbit I even thought he's neutered) but they only met once yesterday and yes he also tried but she is really fast left poor Fred totally baffled. I wouldn't say she doesn't like them she comes to their cages when she's out (I can't to let them out same time and leave them alone so when one out other cages are even covered so they can't see each other, otherwise they get very nervous).

So I believe she can't be pregnant 30 days because a) if she's 3,5-4 months now she was 2,5-3 months when she got pregnant, I think it's too early and b) she was never left with a male unattended and never actually let male to mount her they were attempting but she played run & seek or hided so never happened and I was with them all the time and c) I have her 5 weeks so she wasn't pregnant then because it's more than 31 days.

Now, she was always defensive, she bites even if I am not doing anything just laying on my lap and bites my sleeve and there's my arm under it so I am all you should see my hands all covered with scars I should call her Bloody Mary perhaps. Last few days she is so very nervous I was afraid to open the cage and take her bowl she just jumps on me and cuts me again like a tigress. She eats a lot, and always hungry, she's quite fat now but today she only eat in the morning but now her bowl full she had no interest in her pellets since lunch time and now it's 2am. I gave her a 1/3 of carrot though and she eat it but didn't finish.

I've cleaned cages today and put more hay not only into her box but some extra as bedding I thought maybe if she had more hay she'd eat more and will go easier on pellets. I think she eats too much pellets and she's very demanding when her bowl is empty she's getting really angry.

She's got very excited about this extra hay and started nesting I can't believe it she's literally collecting all hay and putting it all around her toilet corner, no fur pulling but it is definitely nest and she's very busy still working on it now. She is not eating her hay but just picking hay with her mouth and bringing to the nest. And she's very nervous or excited won't sit still all worky-worky.

And. Since yesterday she smells like if she had diarrhea there's actually normal poop maybe a few softer but maybe because she's so nervous she forgets to eat her soft poops I don't know.

Today I've noticed that she like peed in a few places where she'd never normally do and it's actually not urine at all, looks more like water and very small amounts, strange.

I wanted to ask something but can't remember now, just had to share it perhaps, I really worry about her she's very nervous or excited I watch her all the time and now she's just started pulling her fur and adding to the nest.

I handled her about couple hours ago and yes she's quite fat her belly was big but soft of course I have no experience and couldn't feel if there's something moving.

She keeps pulling her fur now and moving between her shelf and the nest which in in the other corner.

When I realized she's making a nest I gave her a box but she decided to continue where she started.

There's plenty of fur now and she keeps adding more.

What do I do now can I help or give her anything or just to leave her alone. It looks like she's going to have babies but as I said I don't believe she can be pregnant.

 

[jess24rose]

You should take her to a vet just in case because if she's not pregnant it could be something else or its just a false pregnancy but I recommend getting her spayed

 

[Preitler]

I don't deem it a good idea to put intact, horny bucks with a doe, just to interfere and abort their advances. What you witnessed isn't "playing" at all, it's serious bunny business, that's what being a rabbit is all about. And they just need mere seconds to do the deed, once turning your back to them is enough.

Imho, it confuses and frustrates the bucks, but well, they'll quite likely get over it, but it stresses the doe, triggers hormones, and leaves her confused, which can wreak havoc on her behaviour. If she gets fed up she might even turn on the buck which can lead to serious injuries.
3 Months is not too young, had that accidentially happen last year about that age (I only noticed when the kits left their nest, 10 rabbits in the hutch instead of 4 does....), not very likely but possible, so be prepared.

I sounds to me that she is about to kindle, so I would not take her to the vet now, what a doe needs around kindling is rest, piece and quiet, not being stressed out. As long she's eating (I think I observed some loss of appetite 1-2 days prior kindling, but that isn't a strict rule) and active I would just give her lots of hay as nesting material until you are absolutly sure that it just was a false pregnancy (day 34 or so)

 

[zuppa]

Hi, thank you for your inputs!

I know it was a very long post and very desperate maybe it wasn't stated clearly, I've never put them together! I was told she was a buck I only started thinking maybe she's not when they first met in neutral territory, they were in their individual cages for a week before that and can see and touch each other and it looked they like each other so they were placed in same pen for about 10-15 mins or even less but because Leo all tried to dominate and I thought they were both bucks I didn't want them to start fighting even they were both Leo was 10 weeks old and she was 9 or 11 weeks then.

They will be both neutered/spayed but vet told over the phone they can only do that from 4 months, they now Leo is 3 months and a half and she's one week younger I believe.

They are in their individual cages and they can't see each other and when I let her out Leo's cage is covered and when Leo goes out her cage is covered and they only see each other on a very rare occasion for a very short time it was last Wednesday in fact for the second time they were out same time for a few mins about 5 mins I needed their both cages opened and I was with them.

For Fred, he's a rescue he's staying in his cage and not even going out if it's open, he's happy on his own I think he's quite old he's very placid, he likes food and likes his box he's a good listener. He's with me about 5 weeks now and when I brought Leo close to his cage after a week or so so they can say hello Leo didn't look very friendly he tried to get him through the cage so I've left introduction for the time after Leo will be fixed, I thought Fred was fixed too, now I don't know at all. When Leo was playing and Fred saw him through the cage he marked his cage in place closest to Leo, Leo did the same on carpet so after that there's a barricade around Fred's cage when Leo goes out.

Smokey (a girl) she liked Fred when introduced through the cage and just two days ago they were out in playpen with both cages opened, Fred immediately started chasing her but he's very slow and she was just running around him it was really short I shouldn't do it probably but I thought he was fixed and very old, he's so calm and slow.

Fred is a whole different story I might be trying to find him a new home he's very relaxed he would make a great pet I think he likes to be alone he's friendly and never bites not very active but all working quietly in his cage, enjoys his food and toys not even asking to be let out. If I had no other rabbits or can keep him in his own territory I'd keep him, he's very nice and responsible, but I feel bad for keeping them all imprisoned and I do understand I will have to for until they will be all fixed and 6-8 weeks after that. Also it would cost a fortune to fix three rabbits.

Smokey has a good memory she comes to both Leo's and Fred's cages when out of her cage and looking for them, I keep her cage open when I can so she's more familiar with the territory, she loves her cage too and it's her home she's comfortable there.

I know I agree I did wrong letting them play together before they're all fixed but there was so much misunderstanding with sexes I thought Leo was a girl first, then I've got Smokey as a boy I was going to neuter them and bond after that, they're both less than 3,5 months old now, and Fred was totally unplanned just given to me because people who found him had dogs and can't keep him.

I just learn as I go and not asking for a judgment just thought I'd share situation I have now.

Today Smokey is looking very sweet relaxed and wanted me to cuddle her, she eat a little bit of her pellets and finished a 1/4 of celery stick I gave her last night, her nest is still there she's laying on her shelf. Her belly is still big and a bit harder than last night but she's looking calm now the only I have no idea where she goes to pee as her nest is in that corner and it is all dry, no signs of urine around.

I truly think it's a false pregnancy but we'll see. It is 43 days since I brought her home so she can't be pregnant that long, and 36 days since she had a contact with Leo first time he tried mounting her, after that she only played with him 4-5 days ago and with Fred it was once two days ago. Both times she was moving really fast and both males wanted but she was moving and she's stronger and bigger than both of them I am pretty sure that nothing happened both times, and it was just last week anyway.

Now, I apologise again for the long post, I am just going to google false pregnancy now to find out how to deal with it, she doesn't look nervous now just a bit worry if she's not urinating because there's her nest, should I move it a little bit so she could find her toilet and what food should I give her, do I give her some green or she should stay on her hay and pellets, that would be great if I could get some advice on that.

Thank you for reading.

 

[zuppa]

I am just going to put her nest into a box so she could use her toilet corner for pee. She's eating her pellets now and looking fine.

 

[zuppa]

She's feeling okay not stressed or anything but she is a bit different. Her belly is bigger and she wants to be around me I let her out (the other rabbits are in their cages covered and barricaded so she's all on her own and me of course). She stayed on my lap for a while and liked when I touched her stomach like she's not sure what is happening to her and wants me to be with her. She poops alright all over the place poop is normal size and dry. She's kinda asking me to pick her which is a bit unusual lately, then she tries to get some fur of my pj as it looks a bit like fur too ) She goes where I go all around me now. Her poop is a bit larger and softer now, not all some dry but there are 3 pellets together. She's active, running around and making poops. Also she's making noise, this is a bit unusual, Fred often is trying to say something like a piggie, I thought first it's him, but now I think it's she.

So I am going to move her nest into a box now, I've checked her cage she peed in fact all over the cage but it's not smelly urine it is dry now but looking a bit yellow and doesn't have strong smell, and not like when normally she does it's a poodle with a specific smell and like yellowish-orange now it is almost clear yellow and not a lot, in a few places maybe she did on hay to but I can't see. Her nest is pretty dry I am not sure if I have t move it or not.

She plays with her toys now outside the cage looking good.

Tried to upload a few pics but it says my file is too big, will try again

 

[zuppa]

 

[zuppa]

I worry about myself now just realised I was staying up until 5 am and woke up at 1 pm and only had a glass of water since then and it's 8 pm now I should go get some food now ) Also she's chasing me and wants my attention even bites my feet I need to protect myself she's a tigress not rabbit )

 

[zuppa]

I took her on my shoulder as she wanted I think she needs a pillow for her belly so I can hear her breathing and sometimes it's like a choo choo train and she grinds teeth time to time maybe she's in pain I am going to make some chamomile tea for her she liked it once or maybe with other herbs I have dried mint, thyme, sage, fennel seeds would be good for her stomach if she will drink it think mint is good and she should drink it she likes dried mint

 

[zuppa]

I googled stomach problems I think maybe she was pulling her fur last night for the nest could it be something like a hairball or something she wants to be on me all the time I massage her belly maybe she feels better then. She just produced a very big poop please see photo, the other poops around are normal dry and normal size, she wants me to hold her tight all the time and bites my feet to get there it's very painful!
She makes holws in my pj I cant type anymore help!

 

[zuppa]

I think it was just this soft poop I can't pronounce it but you know that they normally eat them, a couple hours ago there was 3 softies together now I can't see them there she probably eat them, I think maybe her belly is bigger and it's just difficult for her to get them immediately so that's why I saw them, she wanted to eat this large one while I was taking photo too.

She eat some food pellets and a piece of celery stick and got some water too, now munchkin her hay from the basket.

There's no hair or mucus in her poop I've checked around all the softies gone now she eat them and other poops are dry and as usual. I've put her into her cage to protect myself, I am all damaged look at this! The last ones are through my pj! I need a doctor now ))

 

[zuppa]

It is clear that I need a new camera I dropped my camera a month ago and this other camera I got 2nd hand was a horrible investment

 

[zuppa]

Just read an article about false pregnancies so it can last about 18 days and the hair pulling is actually the final phase lasts 1-3 days then she comes to normal. Interesting reading and illustrated I will just leave it here

>>Pseudopregnancy: hay gathering and fur plucking behavior

>>Once a female rabbit reaches sexual maturity, she may go through periodic false pregnancies. False pregnancies can be triggered by the mounting behavior by a castrated male or another female rabbit in an attempt to establish dominance, the presence of a castrated or intact male in the same living environment. It is, however, also observed in female rabbits that have no contact with other rabbits.
>>Pseudopregnancy is the result of ovulation and the release of ova. The corpus luteum and the uterus begin to develop and prepare for gestation and mammary glands may swell. Since there is no fertilization of the ova, the levels of hormones that promote gestation remain low. Around the 12th day of the pseudopregnancy, the corpus luteum and the uterus start to regress, accompanied by mammary gland involution. Between the 15th and 18thday, an increase in estrogen secretion and a drop in progesterone level occurs. These changes trigger maternal behavior and loosening of the hair. While building her nest, the female rabbit will pull out abdominal or shoulder hair and begin frenetic gathering of various materials (e.g., hay, paper) to use in its construction. This behavior lasts 1 to 3 days, after which the rabbit resumes its usual habits.

Link: http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/Pseu_preg/pseudo_en.htm

Interesting that it sometimes works for bucks too

 

[zuppa]

I don't know honestly she's not well. She drinks now and eat her pellets and hay but not urinating. I've checked her fur she has some bold patches there's plenty of fur in the nest, she's not in it wasn't there since last night, she keeps losing her fur it just comes out easily, she has a gorgeous coat but when I inspected closely she lost a lot of it.

Her belly is big and she's not comfortable with it trying to find where to lay down mostly laying on her shelf. She poops well as usual but I can't see urine maybe I should check her cage better maybe there's some signs under hay but don't want to disturb her now.

About an hour ago she flipped n side and her eyes were almost closed and she was breathing heavily, but it lasted only a few seconds, then she woke up and moved to her shelf, she reacts fast when I call her she's very uncomfortable with her belly I don't know how to help her I let her out again so she moving around but when she's in her cage she's quiet and keeps cleaning herself or drinks

 

[April LD]

Take her to the vet. If you can tell she is hurting/uncomfortable, it could be more than just a false pregnancy. If you can't see urine, she could have a swollen badder and it could be VERY BAD. Get her to a vet, they could tell you if she is in fact pregnant or not. Then they can see if there is something else going on...seems important to get her to a vet ASAP.