Snuffles - Need some opinion please ?

[Cef81]

Okay so I have a netherland dwarf named cadbury 4-5 yrs old . He has snuffles he’s been on metacam , orbax by mouth he didn’t do to well upset his tummy , he’s had two different drops for nose one to see if it was allergies and now been on two different injections currently one injection for second time making me stress cause the needle is thick cause the meds are thick and he and I both hate it . So I also went to a exotic specialist board certified and she recommended gentamicin nebulizer treatments in a tote I bought every thing including having my meds shipped from the vet specialist she seen him and prescribed the orbax and said I could do MRI for $800 I opted out then said there is a surgery that was in thousand dollar range I also opted out . I took him back to my hometown vet which is closer but I’m not sure she is board certified so I asked her about nebulizer treatment she said she wouldn’t do it she had no luck 2 out of 3 rabbits died . So now I’m confused on what to do this is my first rabbit and the love I have found for him is unexplainable it’s upsetting to have two different vets say something totally different. Should I try the nebulizer or pass ? Should I listen to the board certified or the other anyone had to nebulize their bun bun ? doing all these meds since March 11 ish .

 

[skipidragon]

So what is wrong with your bun? Does it affect his life or just make you nuts? How long has he had this? I can tell you're a good mom. Is this a birth defect? What was the surgery supposed to correct?

 

[Cef81]

So what is wrong with your bun? Does it affect his life or just make you nuts? How long has he had this? I can tell you're a good mom. Is this a birth defect? What was the surgery supposed to correct?

He has snuffles yes it affects him worse cases they get pneumonia then die I got him right as he was in the pneumonia stage but we got him cleared of that . But he still has the snuffles and it’s like us having a severe sinus infection he gets sneezing fits where thick mucus like snot comes out . He’s been like this since I’ve got him in March on the 7th and been on meds since . No it’s not a birth defect it’s a severe bacterial infection probably from the filth he lived in .thank you I’m trying to be a good mom to him . The surgery she said they would somehow go up in and suck stuff out I don’t know I didn’t get into it cause I can’t afford that .

 

[JBun]

So explain his medical history and symptoms. When he was diagnosed with pneumonia, what symptoms did he have at the time that the vet gave that diagnosis. What tests were done(eg. xray, scans, blood tests, culture and sensitivity test, etc) and what were the findings?

What exact medications was he put on and for how long? If you could list all of the antibiotics that have been tried and in what order and length of time? What symptoms does he still present with? Is it just the occasional thick mucous when he sneezes, and is this every day? Any breathing difficulty, like labored breathing, increased respirations, noisy breathing, or mouth breathing? Is his URI causing any lethargy and reduced activity levels?

So is the surgery just to clean out the pus in the nasal cavity?

 

[BMCBun]

I would definitely consider nebulising. We had a bun with chronic snuffels who managed to live with it for 5 years. We used periodic antibiotics and continued nebulising. The nebuliser was:

fluid per bag for sc infusion
Dosage Line 1: 2000mg Acetylcystine added to 100ml saline: 20mg/ml solution Dosage Line 2: Nebulise 2.5ml TWICE daily - our guy was 1.7kg so dosage may need adjustment.

In the end we had him on antibiotics for 30 days, then off when the symptoms cleared and his nasal discharge was clear and not white (white indicates infection) with continuous nebulising eventually once a day. With this we were able to reduce antibiotics to every six months. He eventually died of stasis treated by a rabbit incompetent Vet and not the snuffles. He lived to the age of 9.

We also tried different antibiotics and did several sensitivity tests, Zithromax was very effective even though it didn’t show up on his sensitivity test but it upsets the stomach so you must combine this with a daily probiotic, we used one biolapis sachet mixed with a bit of critical care to make sure he eats it. But he eventually built up resistance so used Sulfatrim which worked till the end. I will definitely combine any antibiotic with Biolapis and make sure the antibiotics is given until his nasal discharge is clear and not white this is likely to take more than the standard 10 days could need 1-3 months even.

I had to fight for this rabbit so many times and eventually found the Royal Vet College in London who was an absolute blessing. Don’t take no for an answer, trust your gut many rabbits can live with snuffles if treated by a rabbit specialist that actually know their stuff. Note the medication names may vary outside the UK.

I would personally try to avoid surgery if at all possible. Not had experience with snuffles surgery though.

 

[BMCBun]

Before considering surgery please get an antibiotic sensitivity test done. Ask them to do a deep nasal swab, this should be done using a mild anaesthetic. It’s not super cheap but will identify an antibiotic that will work as snuffles can be caused by a few different bacteria.

 

[Cef81]

Okay so I can’t really explain his medical history I’ve only adopted him on March 7th of this year . He was kept outside in a shed very little heat or air conditioning I’m in where he was around bird poop rat and mouse poop from the rats and mice that came in to eat the bird poop and dogs that came in and out to eat the mice and rats . March 9 th he was prescribed Moxifloxacin for nose about a week twice a day plus a shot for me to give not sure which one he had a wheezing to him he had runny eyes and hair was rubbed off of one in a small spot also he had the insides of both paws crusty and lots of daily sneezing where he paws at his face She did X-ray and listens to lungs said they were wet but they were not damaged so he went back on March 9th was put on injections it sure which ones for a week and Tobramycin for eyes and nose twice a day she said pneumonia and snuffles. Did not do much better next vet visit 3/29/22 lungs sounded good X-ray was better but she put him on Ceftioflex for the next 14 days injections next vet visit was to a specialist on April 13 th said he had snuffles and could do a culture but didn’t guarantee a result did X-ray lungs looked good prescribed orbifloxacin by mouth for 8 days didn’t do good for him quit eating had diarrhea he was only on it 3 days I took him off went back to regular vet on 4-18-22 got 10 more days of Ceftioflex and on 4-25 got 5 more because he started to show signs of improvement we were also doing nasal drops Tobramycin . Took him back 5/2/22 he got a vetalog injection and sent me home with MOXIFLOXACIN in nose twice a day 5-9-22 back on 10 days of durapen injections was prescribed nebulizer treatment for him it is gentamicin I think haven’t done it yet my regular vet advised against it said she had two out of 3 rabbits die . So I haven’t tried it didn’t do a culture cause the other vet said may not yield a result and it was going to be $275 . But I’ve already passed that in injection cost for every one it is $10 each I’ve tried to upload a video but keeps kicking it off yea I think it makes it a lot harder for him to breathe he sounds really stuffy not turning blue or drooling

 

[skipidragon]

Get the culture. It will tell you exactly what bacteria he has. I had a bun with that she lived 5 years with it. Put those drops in all the time. Never cleared up. You really need to know what it is. That surgery won't work on rabbits. It works on dogs. Buns noses can seal off pockets of bacteria. They're not smooth and can't be flushed out. Don't know about the nebulizer. I've only had it in the hospital. It does help breathing. I suppose if it opened up a mass the bun could die. That's why you need that culture. Good luck

 

[JBun]

The main problem I'm seeing is the vets aren't prescribing the antibiotics for nearly long enough, espeicially if this is pasteurella. Minimum will usually be 4 weeks, though several months treatment isn't unheard of. 10 days of durapen is not even long enough. I would expect to do at least a month of injections.

Medirabbit: respiratory issues in rabbits

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/jawab...n Effective,acidic environment of the stomach.

I had infection spread through my group of 7 rabbits. A few got eye infections and a few got respiratory infections. I didn't have a culture done, but because of it being highly contagious and affecting most of the rabbits in my group, it was presumed to be pasteurella.

Initially baytril and smz was tried and didn't produce improvement. Next they were put on azithromycin(at my request) 30mg/kg, and they started improving after a few days. After 3 weeks they all seemed to be better so the antibiotic was stopped. After about a week, symptoms started to return. So they were put back on azithromycin at the higher dose of 50mg/kg, but for 4 weeks this time. They all got better and the symptoms didn't ever return, except for one rabbit. After about 2 years an eye infection returned, which may have been a reemergence or just a different infection due to old age and a poor immune system. The rest of the rabbits had already passed from old age at this point.

So that antibiotic worked really well for my rabbits, with immediate improvement within days of starting the oral dosing. But the highest dose did need to be given, and for an extended length of time. And this was with an antibiotic that is considered to be pretty 'heavy duty' as it is. But it's a good antibiotic for respiratory and head infections, because it has good tissue and bone penetration, but only if the bacteria is sensitive to it. One caution though, is it can be hard on some rabbits, and rarely can result in serious digestive upset for a few. The only side effect I saw in my rabbits was some initial stomach cramping in a few, that occurred in the first few days(and only for a few hours after oral administration), but then subsided after those first few days.

A culture and sensitivity may help, though they can sometimes come back with inaccurate results. But I would certainly consider having that done over surgery right now. And I would want to try other antibiotics before opting for a risky surgery.

I can't say anything as to the problems with nebulizing. I'm not sure why your vet has had issues arise, unless something was done incorrectly or the rabbits were just already too ill for it to help. But nebulizing with gentamicin is something that is done with rabbits, as you can see in some of these nebulizing videos in the link below.

If your rabbit is to the point of respiratory distress, with struggling to breath and possibly mouth breathing, I would be inclined to try the nebulizing immediately. But also if he was at this stage, he should also be hospitalized and on oxygen, and probably IV antibiotics as well. If he's not in respiratory distress and doesn't need hospitalization and isn't struggling to breath, then instead of doing the nebulizing at this point, it might be worth either continuing with the penicillin injections for a much longer course than 10 days if you see improvement on it. If not, having a culture/sensitivity done may be a good idea. Or consider trialing azithromycin.

If you do decide to try the azithromycin, the best cost I found for the suspension, was getting a prescription for it from costco or walmart, and using goodrx to further reduce the cost. It ended up being about $23 a 15ml bottle, which lasted 2 weeks(small rabbit), and I needed 2 bottles per rabbit for the whole month treatment.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Medicating_your_rabbit

 

[Cef81]

The main problem I'm seeing is the vets aren't prescribing the antibiotics for nearly long enough, espeicially if this is pasteurella. Minimum will usually be 4 weeks, though several months treatment isn't unheard of. 10 days of durapen is not even long enough. I would expect to do at least a month of injections.

Medirabbit: respiratory issues in rabbits

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/jawab...n Effective,acidic environment of the stomach.

I had infection spread through my group of 7 rabbits. A few got eye infections and a few got respiratory infections. I didn't have a culture done, but because of it being highly contagious and affecting most of the rabbits in my group, it was presumed to be pasteurella.

Initially baytril and smz was tried and didn't produce improvement. Next they were put on azithromycin(at my request) 30mg/kg, and they started improving after a few days. After 3 weeks they all seemed to be better so the antibiotic was stopped. After about a week, symptoms started to return. So they were put back on azithromycin at the higher dose of 50mg/kg, but for 4 weeks this time. They all got better and the symptoms didn't ever return, except for one rabbit. After about 2 years an eye infection returned, which may have been a reemergence or just a different infection due to old age and a poor immune system. The rest of the rabbits had already passed from old age at this point.

So that antibiotic worked really well for my rabbits, with immediate improvement within days of starting the oral dosing. But the highest dose did need to be given, and for an extended length of time. And this was with an antibiotic that is considered to be pretty 'heavy duty' as it is. But it's a good antibiotic for respiratory and head infections, because it has good tissue and bone penetration, but only if the bacteria is sensitive to it. One caution though, is it can be hard on some rabbits, and rarely can result in serious digestive upset for a few. The only side effect I saw in my rabbits was some initial stomach cramping in a few, that occurred in the first few days(and only for a few hours after oral administration), but then subsided after those first few days.

A culture and sensitivity may help, though they can sometimes come back with inaccurate results. But I would certainly consider having that done over surgery right now. And I would want to try other antibiotics before opting for a risky surgery.

I can't say anything as to the problems with nebulizing. I'm not sure why your vet has had issues arise, unless something was done incorrectly or the rabbits were just already too ill for it to help. But nebulizing with gentamicin is something that is done with rabbits, as you can see in some of these nebulizing videos in the link below.

If your rabbit is to the point of respiratory distress, with struggling to breath and possibly mouth breathing, I would be inclined to try the nebulizing immediately. But also if he was at this stage, he should also be hospitalized and on oxygen, and probably IV antibiotics as well. If he's not in respiratory distress and doesn't need hospitalization and isn't struggling to breath, then instead of doing the nebulizing at this point, it might be worth either continuing with the penicillin injections for a much longer course than 10 days if you see improvement on it. If not, having a culture/sensitivity done may be a good idea. Or consider trialing azithromycin.

If you do decide to try the azithromycin, the best cost I found for the suspension, was getting a prescription for it from costco or walmart, and using goodrx to further reduce the cost. It ended up being about $23 a 15ml bottle, which lasted 2 weeks(small rabbit), and I needed 2 bottles per rabbit for the whole month treatment.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Medicating_your_rabbit

Thank you so much you have all been really helpful!! Called vet this morning to see what she says now I feel stronger since I have all you all pulling for him too I will direct this positive energy to him so hopefully it will help !

 

[Cef81]

Update : culture set for Wednesday morning at 8am fingers crossed

 

[Cef81]

While waiting for his test results I just wanted to show off my adorable boy

 

[BMCBun]

What a sweetheart! Have you had the test results back yet? @Cef81

 

[Cef81]

What a sweetheart! Have you had the test results back yet? @Cef81

Nope not yet trying to patiently wait but in the mean time he went back on another injection we had him on for two weeks he did good for the first 4 days no nose snot no sneeze fits by the 4th day he’s now back to sneeze fits and white nose discharge and in the first 4 days he played like crazy so many binkys. I’m going to try to save up or do a go fund me for an MRI next but that’s $800 if this culture doesn’t yield results so they can see if there is something else going on up in sinuses

 

[Cef81]

My poor baby had a lot of sneeze fits this time it looked as though it was up in his eye meaning it was coming out his nose and eye see the discharge in the corner you may have to zoom in ? It was worse but he wiped it before I got the picture I’m so heartbroken for my sick baby going to call vet today see if there is any results in yet .

 

[Cef81]

Still no results yet he’s now back to being congested eye discharge not eating as much lays close by but no snuggles with me fingers crossed we will have answers today tried to upload a video but says no allowed extension

 

[JBun]

Hopefully the vet gets back to you soon with the results.

 

[Cef81]

Hopefully the vet gets back to you soon with the results.

They said it usually takes a week but it’s been over that unless they mean only workdays like Monday through Friday and don’t count weekends still think even then may be over a week

 

[sillylily]

The main problem I'm seeing is the vets aren't prescribing the antibiotics for nearly long enough, espeicially if this is pasteurella. Minimum will usually be 4 weeks, though several months treatment isn't unheard of. 10 days of durapen is not even long enough. I would expect to do at least a month of injections.

Medirabbit: respiratory issues in rabbits

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/jawab...n Effective,acidic environment of the stomach.

I had infection spread through my group of 7 rabbits. A few got eye infections and a few got respiratory infections. I didn't have a culture done, but because of it being highly contagious and affecting most of the rabbits in my group, it was presumed to be pasteurella.

Initially baytril and smz was tried and didn't produce improvement. Next they were put on azithromycin(at my request) 30mg/kg, and they started improving after a few days. After 3 weeks they all seemed to be better so the antibiotic was stopped. After about a week, symptoms started to return. So they were put back on azithromycin at the higher dose of 50mg/kg, but for 4 weeks this time. They all got better and the symptoms didn't ever return, except for one rabbit. After about 2 years an eye infection returned, which may have been a reemergence or just a different infection due to old age and a poor immune system. The rest of the rabbits had already passed from old age at this point.

So that antibiotic worked really well for my rabbits, with immediate improvement within days of starting the oral dosing. But the highest dose did need to be given, and for an extended length of time. And this was with an antibiotic that is considered to be pretty 'heavy duty' as it is. But it's a good antibiotic for respiratory and head infections, because it has good tissue and bone penetration, but only if the bacteria is sensitive to it. One caution though, is it can be hard on some rabbits, and rarely can result in serious digestive upset for a few. The only side effect I saw in my rabbits was some initial stomach cramping in a few, that occurred in the first few days(and only for a few hours after oral administration), but then subsided after those first few days.

A culture and sensitivity may help, though they can sometimes come back with inaccurate results. But I would certainly consider having that done over surgery right now. And I would want to try other antibiotics before opting for a risky surgery.

I can't say anything as to the problems with nebulizing. I'm not sure why your vet has had issues arise, unless something was done incorrectly or the rabbits were just already too ill for it to help. But nebulizing with gentamicin is something that is done with rabbits, as you can see in some of these nebulizing videos in the link below.

If your rabbit is to the point of respiratory distress, with struggling to breath and possibly mouth breathing, I would be inclined to try the nebulizing immediately. But also if he was at this stage, he should also be hospitalized and on oxygen, and probably IV antibiotics as well. If he's not in respiratory distress and doesn't need hospitalization and isn't struggling to breath, then instead of doing the nebulizing at this point, it might be worth either continuing with the penicillin injections for a much longer course than 10 days if you see improvement on it. If not, having a culture/sensitivity done may be a good idea. Or consider trialing azithromycin.

If you do decide to try the azithromycin, the best cost I found for the suspension, was getting a prescription for it from costco or walmart, and using goodrx to further reduce the cost. It ended up being about $23 a 15ml bottle, which lasted 2 weeks(small rabbit), and I needed 2 bottles per rabbit for the whole month treatment.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Medicating_your_rabbit

Pasteurella is the most common bacteria and Durapen will work. If it is bicillin it will stay in the system for 48 hours, but if penicillin injections, it will only stay for 24 hrs. I would do everyday subq injections very 24 hours for at least 4 to 6 weeks to be effective. Of course we know penicillins should never be given orally. Please keep us posted.

 

[Cef81]

Well my husband went to vets to pick up meds for cadbury another $214 He said it’s twice a day for 10 days ceftazidime is what is prescribed said they got results back from culture but the vet didn’t come out to talk directly the tech just handed him meds so all I know is they prescribed this for 10 days and 2 times a day I told them to have vet call cause I have questions so I’ll know more hopefully