slowly losing good litter habits

[emay75]

hi everyone,

my bunny Lemon is suddenly losing his good litter habits! i got him a new, much bigger, litter tray and he started peeing outside his box (but in the same area) as i think he was protesting against the box's higher sides. fair enough! so i changed back to his original smaller box, and for the first night in a week he didn't pee on the floor!

however, today i left the house and came back to a puddle right beside the box. it seems he is pulling the hay out and eating it on the floor and peeing at the same time. (the bigger new box was purchased for its high sides so he wouldn't pull the hay out.)
AND he had also peed on my bed for the first time since getting fixed months ago.

i'm frustrated and confused, it seems like his peeing issues are a constant battle. i thought getting him fixed was the solution to the problem, as he is 5 years old and all this behaviour only started in april. i spray the area around his box with vinegar to discourage him but it doesn't seem to be doing anything.

does anyone have any idea why he is suddenly peeing on the floor?

one thing i have noticed is that the pee is completely clear and the puddles vary from small to medium in size, so i worried he may have a bladder issue, but he seems to have no other symptoms! he does drink a lot of water, which again alerted me to potential issues, but he doesn't seem to be in any pain and isn't losing condition (if anything he may be getting a bit chunky so i've cut back on grain and treats/fruit.)

does this sound like he needs a trip to the vet OR is it just bad behaviour?

thanks for any advice

 

[JBun]

It could be behavioral or it could possibly be a health issue. Drinking a lot could be an indication of a dental issue, at worst a kidney problem. Urinary incontinence can be from bladder issues like a UTI. Or it could be age related, could be related to arthritis or spondylosis. If you've tried everything environmental, to correct the problem and it's continuing, then it would probably be a good idea to have him checked by your vet. A urinalysis, blood test, and possibly xrays, may need to be done to determine if there is a health issue causing these issues.

 

[emay75]

It could be behavioral or it could possibly be a health issue. Drinking a lot could be an indication of a dental issue, at worst a kidney problem. Urinary incontinence can be from bladder issues like a UTI. Or it could be age related, could be related to arthritis or spondylosis. If you've tried everything environmental, to correct the problem and it's continuing, then it would probably be a good idea to have him checked by your vet. A urinalysis, blood test, and possibly xrays, may need to be done to determine if there is a health issue causing these issues.

i was thinking it could be dental or urinary, but he's still eating and chewing seemingly fine (however i understand that rabbits hide illness very well.) he also is just as active as ever.
it just seems like he is purposefully peeing right outside his box, but i've read some rabbits do this to get attention because something else is wrong with them.
thanks for the reply, i might see how he goes over the next few days and if nothing changes/he pees on my bed again, i'll call his vet!

 

[rabbit_friend]

I've had bunnies lose litter box habits, and would advise a full medical checkup including xrays. One of my bunnies had a big bladder stone that made her pee often. The other (also peeing clear like you described) had a bad case of bladder sludge. Both also had spinal spondylosis, which made it hard for them to jump in a litter box. Of course, yours could just be protesting about the switch in litter boxes. Lots of praise when he does go in the box often helps reestablish the good habits if there is no medical reason.

 

[emay75]

I've had bunnies lose litter box habits, and would advise a full medical checkup including xrays. One of my bunnies had a big bladder stone that made her pee often. The other (also peeing clear like you described) had a bad case of bladder sludge. Both also had spinal spondylosis, which made it hard for them to jump in a litter box. Of course, yours could just be protesting about the switch in litter boxes. Lots of praise when he does go in the box often helps reestablish the good habits if there is no medical reason.

thanks for the reply!

while i am concerned about bladder issues, i'm just confused as to why the peeing out of the box is only occurring at night or while i'm out, which makes it seem like a behavioural issue.
even after changing back to the smaller box, which is only about 6cm off the ground, lemon left a little puddle on the floor last night, but didn't pee on the bed again.
with the spondylosis, if he had that surely he wouldn't be jumping on my bed and jumping over his obstacle course?

i might call the vet on monday to get a second opinion, but i'm a young university student and am very nervous of the cost that xrays etc. would be (but of course would get him medical care if the vet found it necessary!)

 

[rabbit_friend]

I wasn't saying that yours might have spondylosis—he certainly doesn't if he's jumping on the bed, assuming the bed isn't on the floor! But you didn't mention his acrobatics, and did say the higher box sides were an issue, and did say he was 5, at which these problems often start. You also mentioned that this peeing all only started in April, so something has changed. It may well be behavioral — rabbits don't like their routine or habitat changed and it may have just made him temporarily a bit anxious about why you took away his litter box. But small, clear puddles also aren't really normal. Rabbits usually excrete calcium in their urine, which makes it cloudy. An xray (just one side view) would quickly show whether he has bladder sludge, and whether there are any spinal changes, and doesn't usually cost a lot.

Any time there's a change in a bun's behavior, I think about what has changed in the environment first: have I been busier than usual and ignoring the buns? Have we gotten new food or hay and they've been eating less because it's somehow different? Have I been yelling at the tv news too much? Have I been petting the neighbor's dog and then coming into the bunnies' area? Etc. If nothing there has changed, it's usually off to the vet. Vet exam and xray is usually first thing I do, because bloodwork doesn't usually show much unless something serious is going on (and is more expensive).

 

[emay75]

I wasn't saying that yours might have spondylosis—he certainly doesn't if he's jumping on the bed, assuming the bed isn't on the floor! But you didn't mention his acrobatics, and did say the higher box sides were an issue, and did say he was 5, at which these problems often start. You also mentioned that this peeing all only started in April, so something has changed. It may well be behavioral — rabbits don't like their routine or habitat changed and it may have just made him temporarily a bit anxious about why you took away his litter box. But small, clear puddles also aren't really normal. Rabbits usually excrete calcium in their urine, which makes it cloudy. An xray (just one side view) would quickly show whether he has bladder sludge, and whether there are any spinal changes, and doesn't usually cost a lot.

Any time there's a change in a bun's behavior, I think about what has changed in the environment first: have I been busier than usual and ignoring the buns? Have we gotten new food or hay and they've been eating less because it's somehow different? Have I been yelling at the tv news too much? Have I been petting the neighbor's dog and then coming into the bunnies' area? Etc. If nothing there has changed, it's usually off to the vet. Vet exam and xray is usually first thing I do, because bloodwork doesn't usually show much unless something serious is going on (and is more expensive).

the new litter box has been the only recent change, and the sudden change back to his old one may have further upset him!

the clear urine was also a slight worry for me as usually it is a bit cloudy or yellow. his increase in water intake also worried me a little but honestly i couldn't remember if this was new or if i was suddenly hyper aware of how much he was drinking. i think i will definitely call the vet when they open on monday, thank you! definitely better to be safe than sorry.

(also - i know it sounds silly that i worry about the cost of vet bills for him, but when i got him my parents paid his costs, now i've left home he is soley my responsibility and when i was younger i didn't think about the implications of this!)

again, thanks for the help

 

[rabbit_friend]

It doesn't sound silly at all to worry about the cost, especially when you have a lot more responsibilities now that you've left home, and when it seems like he's not really ill. It's not like he is moping around and not eating and has a totally obvious reason to see the vet However, especially at his age, an exam is a good idea. You implied that his neuter was fairly recent—how recent?

 

[emay75]

It doesn't sound silly at all to worry about the cost, especially when you have a lot more responsibilities now that you've left home, and when it seems like he's not really ill. It's not like he is moping around and not eating and has a totally obvious reason to see the vet However, especially at his age, an exam is a good idea. You implied that his neuter was fairly recent—how recent?

i now definitely think an exam would be good for him! and he was neutered in May. he moved into my flat with me in April and the change in house etc. caused him to start peeing on my bed, so i got him neutered and that completely stopped any peeing issues up until now

 

[rabbit_friend]

I found some of your other threads and now fully jnderstand why he's peeing various places—I think you’re expecting too much of him given all the changes he's been through, including his moving, neuter surgery and the stasis episodes! I think he's doing great given all that . That said, my 10–year-old with bladder sludge used to go into stasis whenever his sludge built up too much and would also pee anywhere. Now that I routinely help him get the sludge out, he hasn’t had stasis in a while and sticks to his pee pads. Not saying that’s your bunny's problem, but it wouldn't hurt to have him checked out.

 

[Nancy McClelland]

We had one that would be in his box but was too close to the edge sometimes so it did not stay inside. Hope it's something that simple.

 

[emay75]

I found some of your other threads and now fully jnderstand why he's peeing various places—I think you’re expecting too much of him given all the changes he's been through, including his moving, neuter surgery and the stasis episodes! I think he's doing great given all that . That said, my 10–year-old with bladder sludge used to go into stasis whenever his sludge built up too much and would also pee anywhere. Now that I routinely help him get the sludge out, he hasn’t had stasis in a while and sticks to his pee pads. Not saying that’s your bunny's problem, but it wouldn't hurt to have him checked out.

i ended up taking him to the vet today and they said essentially the same! basically he experienced a bit of stress recently, and took up drinking water as a repetitive coping habit. in return, he's been peeing a lot which changed the colour of his pee etc. other than that, he's in perfect health which is such a relief to hear. hoping that the peeing out of the box will settle down in the next few weeks

 

[dogwoodblossoms]

I'm late to the conversation, but figured I would give some advice. When my rabbit stopped using the litter box (this was my very first rabbit), my mother and I, found that dandelion root really helped to clear out his bladder and help him back in his habits. Now, I use it when I worry my rabbits are having urinary tract issues.