Shavings and flies...

[DadInKS]

Hi all. Brand new here, and a new rabbit owner. I have two rabbits. One a 4 month old mini lop, and a 1 year old mini rex. I aplogize if I don't have those right, but I think that's what my fiancee' said...lmao.

We have their cages in the kitchen, and I make sure to keep their shavings fresh, and cleaned up, on a regular basis. Even doing all that, ever since they moved in, I've had a real problem with flies.

I was reading online, that if you line areas that you fear may be breeding flies with Borax, it'll keep them away. Is there any harm if I put borax in the bottom of the shavings pan, and do you think it would help? If not, what would you suggest?



Thanks in advance!

 

[JadeIcing]

Well I have a question. What kind of shavings and how often do you clean the pans?

 

[Bunnys_rule63]

It's probably the smell from their litter box that is attracting flies. You could try changing their litter to something that absorbs odors a bit better such as carefresh or a type of horse bedding. You could also make sure that you give their cages a good clean once a week and clean up any soiled bedding everyday, when I clean my rabbits hutch out I spray it with 'keep it clean' which is a mild disinfectant which smells lovely and lemony! By making sure that your rabbit's surroundings are kept clean and by using a good litter the flies should stop hanging around.

 

[DadInKS]

JadeIcing wrote:

Well I have a question. What kind of shavings and how often do you clean the pans?

I use cedar shavings, and I scoop the pans, and add inevery day. I only change the entire pan, about once a week.

 

[Snuggys Mom]

As stated above, keeping the cages clean will help.

Rabbits are very sensitive creatures. I wouldn't use anything harsh near them. The only thing I ever use is a solution of 50/50 water and white vinegar to clean my cages and litter boxes.

Flies can be deadly to rabbits (read more here about Fly Strike).

http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=12865&forum_id=10

You can put a little vanilla extract in their water to help repel the flies.

 

[Snuggys Mom]

Do you have litter boxes or drop pans?

Cedar is not good for rabbits. There are other options that may even be cheaper, like horse bedding, Yesterday's Newsor Carefresh.

 

[JadeIcing]

DadInKS wrote:

JadeIcing wrote:

Well I have a question. What kind of shavings and how often do you clean the pans?

I use cedar shavings, and I scoop the pans, and add inevery day. I only change the entire pan, about once a week.

Cedar is a not a good thing to be using. It is very bad for their livers and other little things.

 

[pamnock]

I spray over the pans with inexpensive horse fly spray. (Don't do this around the rabbits).



Pam

 

[naturestee]

I've found that shavings don't do much for absorbing moisture or controlling odor. Last year my apartment had a lot of drafts and bugs, but I never had fly problems. I was using Carefresh which was okay, then I switched to a wood pellet bedding similar to Woody Pet (Equine Pine, Feline Pine, etc) and it's even better. Plus if you buy it at a feed/farm type store, it's usually about $5 for 50 lbs. Just a hair more expensive than cheap shavings and much better than even the good but expensive petstore stuff like Carefresh.

And yes, cedar shavings are bad for animals. They can cause respiratory problems and liver problems.

 

[JimD]

It's very important that flies be kept away from the buns. "Fly strike" can be most dangerous. Here's a link that will give you some insight on this nasty issue:
http://www.rabbit.org/journal/2-12/fly-strike.html


I see you've already gotten the advice about NOT using cedar.
Pine is also a controversial material to use for litter/bedding.

I'm a big proponent of wood pellet litter (I use Woody Pet).
Yesterday's News is a paper-based pellet that also works well, but is considerably more expensive.
Kiln dried Aspen shavings can be used if shavings are preferred, but they offer the least in odor control.

Adding some vanilla (real or artificial) to their drinking water can help with urine odor.
"-(From Buck Jones) I add approximately one teaspoon of vanilla flavoring extract, real or artificial, to one gallon of drinking water in an effort to reduce fly strike and warbles by reducing the number of flies in and about our rabbits."

To bad the "No Pest Strips" by ShellOil went off the market.
You can use those sticky fly strips around the cages until the flies are under control.

Make sure all of the window screens are intact and there aren't any holes in them.

Are the bunnies litter trained and use litter pans....
or are there wire bottoms in the cages with drop pans underneath....
or are the cages plain bottomed and the buns go wherever?

 

[Jess_sully]

As already mentioned, Cedar is a big no-no, not only for rabbits, but for any small animal. Pine is also dangerous for bunnies, but not quite as much as cedar. If you like shavings, I'd suggest that you try Aspen. They're made of hardwood and have no aromatic odors. I've used aspen for rats and gerbils in the past, and for my hamster Mowgli now, and trust me... if it can absorb and control hammie urine odor, it can handle anything! You can get a huge bag of aspen shavings from a store like Tractor Supply Company for less than $8.00. I'm also putting my vote in for Woody Pet, which I was planning on using, but recently discovered has been discontinued at my local TSC It's been replaced with a pine pelleted bedding... which I'm researching for safety at the moment.

 

[Snuggys Mom]

Jess_sully wrote:

I'm also putting my vote in for Woody Pet, which I was planning on using, but recently discovered has been discontinued at my local TSC It's been replaced with a pine pelleted bedding... which I'm researching for safety at the moment.

Let us know what you find out. I saw that stuff at my TSC the last time I got Woody Pet.

 

[JimD]

Laura wrote:

Jess_sully wrote:

I'm also putting my vote in for Woody Pet, which I was planning on using, but recently discovered has been discontinued at my local TSC It's been replaced with a pine pelleted bedding... which I'm researching for safety at the moment.

Let us know what you find out. I saw that stuff at my TSC the last time I got Woody Pet.

I think the TSC by Carolyn told her the same thing. I can't remember the brand she told me it was, though...Equi-Fresh or something like that I think.
I think she said that they were making the change partially because of the price increase of Woody Pet. I think that must be a TSC thing though, because I've been paying $4.79 for Woody Pet at Agway for the last 2 years now.

 

[Jess_sully]

Well, you're lucky you have an Agway! Woody Pet isn't available anywhere near me anymore However, the "replacement" bedding seems to be very similar, although the pellets are harder and not as crumbly. I forgot the brand name, but I'll go back soon to check. As far as I can tell, this product should be fine and work basically the same as Woody Pet. It was EXTREMELY cheap, too. One of my dad's customers, who has four rabbits, switched from Woody Pet to the new stuff about two months ago, and she says it works just as good. My dad has a big rabbit bulletin board in the waiting room of his clinic, and has replaced his reccomendation for Woody Pet as small animal bedding with this new stuff. For all he can tell, it's just as safe. And he's a vet specializing in small animal exotics, so let's hope he knows what he's talking about! It -is- made of pine, but it's kiln-dried pine, and through the processing it loses nearly all of the dangerous phenols.

 

[DadInKS]

JimD wrote:

It's very important that flies be kept away from the buns. "Fly strike" can be most dangerous. Here's a link that will give you some insight on this nasty issue:
http://www.rabbit.org/journal/2-12/fly-strike.html


I see you've already gotten the advice about NOT using cedar.
Pine is also a controversial material to use for litter/bedding.

I'm a big proponent of wood pellet litter (I use Woody Pet).
Yesterday's News is a paper-based pellet that also works well, but is considerably more expensive.
Kiln dried Aspen shavings can be used if shavings are preferred, but they offer the least in odor control.

Adding some vanilla (real or artificial) to their drinking water can help with urine odor.
"-(From Buck Jones) I add approximately one teaspoon of vanilla flavoring extract, real or artificial, to one gallon of drinking water in an effort to reduce fly strike and warbles by reducing the number of flies in and about our rabbits."

To bad the "No Pest Strips" by ShellOil went off the market.
You can use those sticky fly strips around the cages until the flies are under control.

Make sure all of the window screens are intact and there aren't any holes in them.

Are the bunnies litter trained and use litter pans....
or are there wire bottoms in the cages with drop pans underneath....
or are the cages plain bottomed and the buns go wherever?

Thank you everyone for the input. My fiancee' was very surprised to hear about the Cedar. Her last rabbit, that died about 4 months ago, only used Cedar, and livedto be 6.
To answer your questions...

The bunnies aren't litter trained, yet, but my fiancee' litter trained her last one, and says she can these, also. I have no clue, so I defer to her.

The cages are wire bottoms and the drop pans are under the cages.



I am definitely going to try the vanilla, and I don't recall who posted it, but I may consider the horse spray, as well.



Thanks again, everyone. Lots of information for me...lmao.

 

[naturestee]

Sorry to tell you but six isn't particularly old for a rabbit. With spay/neuter and better vet care rabbits commonly live 7-10 years and I've seen quite a few people with rabbits well into their double digits.

Jess, the litter I use is also kiln-dried pine. That's all I can find around here, and it's quite safe because of the drying process.

 

[Jess_sully]

Yes, I would rather use Woody Pet, but... you know how that goes. Does that pine have a "piney" smell at all to you?

This is a bit off topic, butI remember when I was a toddler, my first bunny only lived to be probably three years max (were were NOT up to date on rabbit care information, that's for sure), and I thought that was such a long time. Poor thing. Also on cedar. But, with everything else we did wrong... there's no way to tell how exactly it died. Poor veterinary care in the area for small animals/pocket pets at the time is what drove my dad to go back to college and become licensed as an exotic pet vet. He still goes to classes every year too, to keep himself up to date.

 

[DadInKS]

naturestee wrote:

Sorry to tell you but six isn't particularly old for arabbit. With spay/neuter and better vet care rabbits commonlylive 7-10 years and I've seen quite a few people with rabbits well intotheir double digits.

Jess, the litter I use is also kiln-dried pine. That's all Ican find around here, and it's quite safe because of the dryingprocess.

I apologize, that I misspoke. I originally put 9, and changedit to 6, but I was right the first time, with 9. Annabell wasa great rabbit.





Thanks again everyone for the advice.

 

[JimD]

DadInKS wrote:

The cages are wire bottoms and the drop pans are under the cages.

Mine, too.
I started out using shavings and then moved on to just about everyother product out there before settling down with the wood pellets.
With the shavings, I would first line the drop pan with some newspaperto make it easier to dump out. To help reduce urine odor I would put athin layer of baking soda on top of the newspaper and then put theshavings on top of that.



DadInKS wrote:

I am definitely going to try the vanilla, and I don't recall who postedit, but I may consider the horse spray, as well.

Just make sure the bunnies are NOT in the room if you use the spray.



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Here's some info about some natural insect repellents:

"Repellent Plants and Seeds:

A number of plants can beused to repel insects and flies. Some may be planted in pots to sit ontop of outdoor hutches or near runs, whilst others may be dried andhung in the home, or the rabbit shed. Just make sure that all theseplants are out of reach of your bunny.

• Nigella - Love in aMist, is a pretty annual, which is a good fly and midge repellent;
• Lads Love - Artemisiaabrotanum, a small bush with grey-green leaves and a pungent aromawhich acts as a general insect repellent;
• Gilead – Cedronellacanariensis, a strongly camphor-scented evergreen shrub with showy pinkflowers. The dried leaves and flowers make a moth and insect repellingpotpourri;
• Herbs – e.g. Balm,Chamomile, Hemp, Lavender, Peppermint, Basil, and Green Oregano havepungent smells which repel many insects."

 

[Pipp]

JimD wrote:

Istarted out using shavings and then moved on to just about every otherproduct out there before settling down with the wood pellets.
With the shavings, I would first line the drop pan with some newspaperto make it easier to dump out. To help reduce urine odor I would put athin layer of baking soda on top of the newspaper and then put theshavings on top of that.

:yeahthat I liked the wood pellets the best. Exceptnow seeing as I've been buying hay by the bale for so cheap, I'm usingjust newspaper and hay. I just roll up the first couple ofnewspapers, throw them out and toss more hay on it.Very simple and very healthy! They eat a lot morehay now.

And I definitely wouldn't take a chance on cedar, or to a lesser extenton untreated pine, although I use the latter forsome of mylitter pans becausemy rabbits aren't caged anddon'tinhale the fumes much. Even if onlyone in 10 rabbits end up with liver damage (most undiagnosed unlessthere's a necropsy done), I don't like the odds.

There was another informal (?) study done not long ago that showedbunnies using cedar litter had a much higher instance of notwaking up from anesthetic after surgery.

sas and the warren :bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance: