Seemingly Healthy Rabbit Passing Gas?

[lilnaugrim]

Okay friends, I've already read a bunch on this topic and it seems to still be out for discussion. So I'll try to get a few more opinions on the subject.

Background info on Wiki:
English Lop
About 10 pounds
Just over 1 years old
Has run of the bathroom all day long and is let out to run around the upstairs all day on weekends and about 6-8 hours on weekdays. Binky's all over and flops all the time so he's clearly made himself at home.
I adopted him from his previous owner on 9/24/17
His first vet visit with me will be 10/30/17, it was the closest time I could get with my exotics vet who worked with me on my Leopard Gecko

Eating currently:
Oxbow pellets (best I can find in my area)

Veggies offered:
Escarole mainly (My Bearded dragon can also eat this but Kale shouldn't be as often so I just do this one to make it easier on me)
Kale
Cilantro
Dandelion Greens
Carrot Tops
Mustard Greens
Collard Greens
Broccoli
Cauliflower
Red Bell Pepper

Treats:
Timothy Rings
Oxbow carrot/dill dried treats
Occasional 1" carrot

Hay offered:
Timothy Hay
Alfalfa Hay
Oat Hay



Okay, so that's the basics. I've also been told that the former owner never gave Wiki veggies before, he only had hay and DuMor Advanced Rabbit feed. I give him water in a bowl and a bottle if he runs out of the bowl. The bowl is a 32 ounce bowl and is cleaned out twice a day usually, sometimes I only get to it once but I've only had it run out once since, he still had the bottle.

So I read that he should be eating a lot of hay before introducing veggies and to take it slow, only, I read this after I started to feed him veggies >.< I've had him about three weeks now and he's already eaten everything I listed above. As mentioned, I feed primarily Escrole as my Bearded dragon also eats that but I've given him everything else as well. I figured in my head that: variety is good. Am I wrong there? Or is it still standing, just not at first perhaps?

He hasn't refused any veggies yet, he was unsure about the bell pepper but once I convinced him to try it, he ate it fairly happily. Though, it is the last thing he eats lol.

Since adding veggies and switching him over to Oxbow pellets from DuMor, he eats much less pellets. Before, he'd try to grab the bowl out of your hand like he was starving for it. Now, he goes into his cage to wait for me to put the bowl in if I fill it. I can fill it and leave it for a few days before he gets low or finishes it. Before, he'd wolf it down within the day, which leads me to believe that the greens have helped and the switch to the more nutritious food is doing what it should be doing and he isn't as hungry any more.

He doesn't have any problem walking, hopping (and clearing a 36" fence >.>), running, binkying, flopping, or pooping at all. No discomfort that I can see, no rashes or excessive behaviors. He drinks plenty as well.

The only thing he doesn't do is eat as much hay. He will barely touch the hay in his feeder but will nibble if it's on the floor. I've started to add it to his litter box as I changed that as well to a bigger cat one. I used the FelinePine as a base, the CareFresh on top and then hay on that. Usually I use the Timothy hay there. He'll eat that enough so I have to refresh it before I change his litter. With this method I can go about 2-3 days depending, before changing the litter. Learned this method from a member here as well while looking through posts. So, am I giving him too many things and he's not eating the hay? Is he finicky? The reason I have three kinds was because I wanted to see if he preferred one over the other, but doesn't seem like he likes any very much.

But the biggest question is, if he's healthy, can he still pass gas and it's normal? I've seen other people here and other forums say that yes it's natural/normal. How much is normal? I've heard him fart a few times the past couple days so is it something I'm feeding him? I've also read that feeding of the Cauliflower family (mustard greens, collard greens, kale, broccoli, etc.) is usually what causes gas, but Escarole is of the Daisy family. So, is it something else?

In the past week, he's only eaten Escarole, a bit of broccoli/cauliflower, and Cilantro. The other items I listed up to were fed the two weeks before that. So I assume they've already been digested and cleared out.

The other thing, there is no smell to his farts though. I've seen others mention a smell, nothing noticeable for Wiki, it's just the sound. I nearly thought he had diarrhea yesterday because of the sound but nope, just a fart. No diarrhea in his box at all. I did make sure to check as soon as he hopped off because I know that's a quick killer in rabbits (or the cause of the diarrhea typically is).

Apologies for the questions. I did my best to check around the forum first and on google but didn't find super specifics for my questions. And any info you might need that I missed, definitely let me know and I'll answer best I can!

 

[RavenousDragon]

Broccoli could be the cause- it has been known to cause some gas issues. However, rabbits are 'hind gut fermenters' meaning they literally ferment all of their food in their large intestine. Fermenting any food produces gas, and most rabbits fart (as do horses) quite a bit. We often just can't hear or smell it.

To get him to eat the hay, you will need to reduce the pellets. An adult rabbit (which he is) really doesn't need many (some say any!) pellets. A general rule of thumb is 2 tbs per 5 lbs (of course this also depends on who you ask/what forum you are on). So your rabbit would only need about 4 tbs/day of pellets, which doesn't ever seem like a lot. A rabbit can live entirely on hay and veggies (one of mine, Whiskey, does not get any pellets-- he looks at food and becomes obese, so he needs a strict diet ). He is happy and healthy and quite energetic.

Hopefully that helps!

 

[lilnaugrim]

It does, thank you!

I'd seen a lot of threads saying "GET YOUR RABBIT TO A VET, THAT'S NOT NATURAL!" So, naturally, I investigated some more lol.
I'd also seen that comparison to horses as well since their digestive systems are so similar. Good to know!

I'll keep him off Broccoli for a while to see if it changes at all and go from there.

And, do you think I might be switching veggies too quickly and adding in new stuff? Especially since he's never eaten veggies before in his previous owners care. I didn't want to hurt him but obviously wanted him on a better diet as soon as I can. I just finished switching him over to entirely Oxbow, so that was about 3 weeks time. He really doesn't eat much of it anyway so I'll keep less in his bowl.

Also I saw something about Alfalfa hay being more like a treat hay or something that shouldn't be fed as often? Any word on that. I know Timothy is usually the staple but is it okay to feed the Oat hay more often or the Alfalfa?

Apologies, throwing my own thread off track haha.

 

[Aki]

I wouldn't worry too much. Like RavenousDragon suggested I would lay off the cruciferous veggies a bit as they can cause gas - but you know, an animal passing gas worries me a lot less than one who doesn't (like Shrek says, 'it's better out than in' ^^). Variety is good, it's always better to give a lot of different vegetables and to adapt to those in season to avoid deficiencies or too much calcium / oxalates... Just make sure to introduce them one by one by giving a small piece and increasing the portion over the course of 4 or 5 days. If your rabbit doesn't tolerate something, you'll know as it generally ends up with soft poops. Also, with a full bowl of pellets, it's no wonder your rabbit doesn't eat much hay. The pellets should be eaten in around 30
mn, afterwards that's just hay until it's vegetables time. If given the choice betwen something else and hay, most rabbits will chose something else...
If your rabbit is fully grown and a normal weight I wouldn't give oat or alfalfa. It's nothing really dangerous, but alfalfa is rich in calcium and rabbits don't assimilate it well passed their growing stage so if it's combined with pellets and vegetables which are also a bit rich in calcium it can end up with 'sand' in the urine, urinary problems and (after a long while) encourage bladder stones. I never gave oat personally, but from what I understand that's the kind of thing you give to rabbits who need to gain weight and most of them really don't (mine sure don't ^^). So, normal timothy hay is generally the best if your rabbit eats it well - if he doesn't, you might cheat by mixing it with some other tastier kind (I do it sometimes with second crop now that my girl is getting older and picky with lazy guts). But honestly, I don't think giving a little bit of alfalfa or oat hay from time to time would really be a problem.

 

[lilnaugrim]

Okay, good to know guys thanks!

So the other thing I'm confused about is, everywhere it says "FEED ALL THE LEAFY GREENS!" and that it should be the main of their diet. If cruciferous greens cause so much gas, then why does everyone seem to promote them? Or does "Leafy greens" refer to the Daisy family or something else? As far as I knew, leafy greens just covered everything.

And with the bowl full of pellets, he doesn't eat them all in one shot but I do understand what you're saying. I didn't add any more to his bowl today but added more hay. He will eat all the types of hay, but it just didn't seem like he was eating enough. The other rabbit I used to care for would go through hay like it was candy, he'd eat Timothy like that. I'd have to fill his hay holder twice a day and in his bowl. He'd also eat his pellets too but he'd hardly gain anything.

On Wiki, I can feel his spine quite well, his ribs don't seem too pronounced though so I know he isn't underweight. I think he could stand to gain a pound or two, he doesn't seem to be as "full" as he should be. But I'll ask the vet about that when I get him there. I'll finish out the hays that I have and then just continue with mostly Timothy from there. (Or, should I just toss out the other hays?)

 

[Aki]

You can finish the hays you have, I don't think it will do any harm to give them for a few weeks (except if your rabbit is extremely sensitive or has an urinary issue, the problems linked to calcium and stuff occur over months of overload). About the vegetables, the website I checked always said you could give cruciferous veggies but generally noted a warning about all cabbages and broccoli because they can cause digestive upsets (gas, mostly) and contain a lot of oxalates. Of course, you can give some and some rabbits are more sensitive than others, the way some people can't eat chickpeas without having troubles digesting while others are fine. Giving a lot of leafy greens is very good, you're supposed to give some everyday, but the staple food is more like chicoree or batavia (and her numerous cousins I don't know the name of in English, mostly any lettuce except for the Iceberg one ^^). Leaves like strawberry , raspberry , apple tree, blackcurrant leaves, dandelion are also very good. So yeah, most leafy greens are good. To avoid having problems, my politic is to give four or five different thing everday and to change the vegetables as much as I can from one week to another (depending on seasons, you can't find the same things anyway considering I get them from a local producer). That way, I like to think things balance each other out and that you avoid mostly deficiencies or overloads. I still give a few pellets on the morning too just in case, to make sure the vitamins and stuff are all there (I hope, but it worked pretty well until now ^^).

 

[lilnaugrim]

Okay so the Escarole (Batavia) I'm feeding is good then. I'll stick with that, makes it much easier since my Beardie can also eat that happily. Some greens Beardies can't eat much of like regular lettuces/romaine because it doesn't have enough nutrients and calcium in it. Funny how I have one animal that needs as much Calcium as I can gather, and the other animal needs minimal amounts.

I buy from a grocery store so most things are available year round. I'm not too worried about that much.
But I'll hold off on the broccoli and cauliflower. He didn't seem to have an upset stomach, just gassy. He's still hoping around and doing all the "parkour" stuff he usually does. He can hop right over a 36" tall fence >.>

So, essentially lots of greens from the Chicory family and occasional greens from the cruciferous family and lots of lettuce (except iceberg of course, that stuff tastes terrible anyway), and plenty of other veggies. A little bit of pellets a day and lots of hay--Timothy mostly. Got it!

Thanks friends!

On a last note: he hasn't been gassy the last two days that I've noticed. So it was only for about 2, maybe 3 days, total that he was gassy.