Second round of antibiotics...

[chinmom]

I know I just joined, and as much as I hate to be someone that just joins because of an emergency, I wanted to see ifI could get some advice. Two days after I took in Georgie (a surrendered bunny), I took him to the vet to get a fecal done and a check-up. He wasn't re-ingesting his cecotropes and they smelled extremely bad, so I wanted to get him checked. We came home with two sets of antibiotics: baytil for a parasitic gut infection, and eye/nose drops to treat a respiratory infection. Everything cleared up after several days of antibiotics, but yesterday the poo started smelling again and was looser than before. We went back to the vet, and I came home with metronidazole. He isn't getting any fresh greens right now,just plenty of hay and fresh water, and a small amount of pellets. I wasn't sure of the similarities between rabbit and chinchilla illnesses, but I would be worried about pasteurella or giardia in a chinchilla...are these illnesses that a bunny can get as well? Any advice or input would be extremely welcomed!!

Oh yeah...any ideas on how to get Georgie to take a pill orally? I put a tiny drop of honey and warm water together and let them mix, then I put the pill in that, sucked it up into a syringe and gave it to him that way. Is there a better way?

 

[Haley]

Did the vet say what it was? Just because of the description of smelly poop it sounds like maybe Coccidea?

Sounds like you guys are doing everything right as far as his diet. Im not sure about treatment as Ive never had experience with it, so maybe someone else will know.

For the pill, have you tried hiding it in a raisin or craisin? Or crushing it up and mixing it with some pumpkin or juice in a syringe.

Heres some good info from our RO Library

And you said something about a respiratory infection, how's his breathing? Any nasal discharge?

 

[chinmom]

Thanks for your reply Haley!

It may be coccidia...I didn't have my vet screen for that. If it hasn't cleared up by Monday, I'll take in another sample and have them analyze closer.

I tried hiding it in various things, and he just kept spitting it out after the initial taste of it. I got tired of wasting pills that way,so I gave up as far as that. I tried using Karo syrup (keep it around for the chinchillas) on it, but Georgie moved and got it on the side of his mouth, then he got it on his paw, and he FLIPPED out. He's not lethargic and he's eating and drinking well, so I'm not completely sure what I'm seeing from him. I tried to give him antibiotics a few hours ago, and I thought it was working well...I used the syringe to suck up the water/pill mix, and then gave it to him slowly (I know about the possibilities of aspirating when giving any liquid orally). I thought I was having success...I managed to get the whole thing in his mouth.When I turned him over, all of the liquid fell out of his mouth. Smart little bugger held it in his mouth!!

I'm about to make another attempt with the meds...hopefully this time it will work a little better!

Oh yeah...his respiratory infection has cleared up nicely! No more sneezing, nasal discharge, or eye discharge. I'm still watching him closely for symptoms, though!

 

[seniorcats]

Metronidazole is incredibly bitter - about the nastiest stuff I've ever tasted. Usually i would say to crush and put in a little apple sauce or carrot baby food but that won't even hide the taste. Best bet is to get a cat pill popper, roll the bunny in a towel and pill him like you would a cat.

 

[Haley]

hmm I would try crushing it up really small and putting it in something like pumpkin (canned, 100% pure) and see if he will eat it off the spoon. You could try adding a few oats for taste so he thinks its a snack. That might be easier than using the syringe..

Im glad his respiratory problem cleared up, those can be really tough to treat.

Also, what kind of pellets is he on? And its timothy hay, not alfalfa, right?

 

[chinmom]

He's on "LM Animal Farms Classic Pet Rabbit"food...it was the only thing they had at the store that wasn't filled with junk. Through having other animals, I've learned that if you have to getfeed at a pet store, go for the stuff that's solely pellets. So if there is another type of feed I should look into, please feel free to tell me!! And yes, it's timothy hay, not alfalfa. That's one thing I learned quickly from just about any reading I've done on bunnies...no alfalfa! I've been giving him a little bit of bluegrass hay as well...sort of like a treat. He gets it when he goes home at night (back to his cage) so I think he looks forward to that.

After I give him the antibiotics, I've given him a piece of dried apple to help get rid of that yucky medicine taste. In chinchillas, pumpkin is used to speed up the digestive tract in cases of bloat or constipation. Won't pumpkin worsen the situation? Shouldn't I be trying to slow down his digestive tract?

 

[Haley]

A really good pellet thats sold in pet stores is Kaytee Timothy Complete. Most can order it for you if they sell Kaytee products but dont have it in stock. Its a little more expensive, but its good.

Im not sure about the pumpkin with the GI issue, but I think its okay.Let me pm another member to ask about this. I know rolled oats are good for poopy butt.

Also, how runny are the poops? You may want to get him some pedialyte to rehydrate him if its more like diahrea.

 

[Haley]

yeah, I would skip the pumpkin for now just in case. Stick with lots of hay and some oats and a few pellets. If you need to mix the meds with something, you could try pedialyte (for babies), which will also help rehydrate him.

I forgot to ask, does he produce normal poops as well or are they all soft (and are they runny or just soft?)

 

[chinmom]

LOL, it's only with other furry-lovers that I can hold an entire conversation solely on the topic of poo.

He has normal poo as well runny poo, I think. It's almost like it's solely his cecotropes that are runny. It had just been extremely soft,but a little bit ago it was runny as well.

He's drinking water well, so I don't think pedialyte is necessary yet.

Thanks for the advice on pellets...I think that's what I purchased as something to switch him over to.

 

[chinmom]

Georgie is getting better!! I finally got Georgie to take his meds by giving him one raisin and then putting the pill between two other raisins. It's actually working quite well!! I'm starting to wonder if the greens were giving him the issues...has anyone else had problems when they give their bunnies greens? I introduced them slowely after he finished his last round of antibiotics, but it seemed to get worse right after I introduced them.

 

[naturestee]

I'm glad he's feeling better! Next time the vet gives you a pill for a rabbit, see if he can compound it into a liquid. It's much easier to syringe liquid meds or hide them in food than to get a rabbit to take a pill. If he catches on to the raisin trick, you can crush the pill and dissolve it in Pedialyte.

Some rabbits are very sensitive to veggies and can't have them at all. It's possible that Georgie is just to sensitive to them.

 

[chinmom]

Georgie decided he didn't want raisins this morning, so I gave him a small piece of apple and he ate it, so then I gave him a bigger piece with the pill inside. He chewed for a while and I got really excited because I thought he was actually going to eat it...then he spit it out. So I tried dissolving it in water and syringing it, and he just held the liquid in his mouthand refused to swallow.

And his poo is really nasty again...I'm SO confused about what's going on right now. Is he not getting enough antibiotic this way? Should I call the vet tomorrow and ask for a different med?

 

[naturestee]

Try mixing the pill with something that tastes good. I wouldn't be surprised if it has a nasty taste to it so you'll need to cover it up. My rabbits love canned pumpkin(100% pumpkin, not the pie filling) and I've had luck with hiding bad tasting medicine in that. He might even lick it off a spoon. Another option is mixing it with flavored Pedialyte or watered down juice such as carrot or apple juice. He might drink those willingly, or you might have to syringe it.

I would guess that his poop is bad again because he's not getting his meds. But that's just a guess.

 

[Haley]

Angela, do you think pumpkin is OK even if he's having GI issues? We were wondering about that above..

 

[TinysMom]

I thought pumpkin was normally pushed during GI issues to gt the gut moving.....am I wrong?

I suppose I could do the wise thing and read the WHOLE thread?

Peg

Haley wrote:

Angela, do you think pumpkin is OK even if he's having GI issues? We were wondering about that above..

 

[chinmom]

I think I said it above, but in chinchillas pumpkin is used to stimulate the gut and is used in cases of constipation or occasionally for less severe cases of bloat before other treatments are sought.

Wouldn't it be counter-productive to use pumpkin in an already too-stimulated gut? When there are soft poo or other instances of a digestive system moving too quickly, we often use shredded wheat or burnt toast (the effects of charcoal on the system are great), but I wasn't sure if I can/should give Georgie either of those. Is wheat harmful for rabbits? Can it cause other serious issues to arise?

 

[chinmom]

Georgie took his meds tonight! I crushed up the pill and then mashed up some banana and combined the two. I stuck it on a spoon and put it in his playpen, and I just saw him eat it!! YAY!!

I have a few other things to try tomorrow if I can't get him to take them.

Anyone have thoughts on the wheat stuff?

 

[Pipp]

chinmom wrote:

I think I said it above, but in chinchillas pumpkin is used to stimulate the gut and is used in cases of constipation or occasionally for less severe cases of bloat before other treatments are sought.

Wouldn't it be counter-productive to use pumpkin in an already too-stimulated gut? When there are soft poo or other instances of a digestive system moving too quickly, we often use shredded wheat or burnt toast (the effects of charcoal on the system are great), but I wasn't sure if I can/should give Georgie either of those. Is wheat harmful for rabbits? Can it cause other serious issues to arise?

So sorry, I thought I answered this yesterday.

Pumpkin is great forhydration and digestion in almost all cases, the exception being force feeding when there's an actual blockage (which is very rare) in the GItract, at which point, they shouldn't have food at all. Blockages are almost never 'hairballs' or any kind of food digestion issue, it's usually from eating carpet or something of the sort. The vet usually needs an xray for a proper diagnosis. Even the meds they usually give to stimulate a sluggish gut aren't good if there's a blockage.

In the case of Cecal Dysbiosis, the severe form of 'poopy butt' froman imbalance of the system bacteria/flora, is most often caused by too many carbs. The jury is still out on pumpkin-- at least with my vet and a dozen other sources I've tried -- butfrommy experience, if you've got a bunny in stasis or heading into stasis during a bout of CD, and you can't get them to eat hay and water, pumpkin and/or a Critical Care slurry (an enhancedpellet powder mix made by Oxbow) is the next best thing. It has nutrients,liquid and fiber.

I would think that toast and wheat, however (and oats, etc), would be terrible.

Hope this helps!

sas

 

[chinmom]

Pipp wrote:

Pumpkin is great forhydration and digestion in almost all cases, the exception being force feeding when there's an actual blockage (which is very rare) in the GItract,at which point, they shouldn't have food at all. Blockages are almost never 'hairballs' or any kind of food digestion issue, it's usually from eating carpet or something of the sort. The vet usually needs an xray for a proper diagnosis. Even the meds they usually give to stimulate a sluggish gut aren't good if there's a blockage.

In the case of Cecal Dysbiosis, the severe form of 'poopy butt' froman imbalance of the system bacteria/flora, is most often caused by too many carbs. The jury is still out on pumpkin-- at least with my vet and a dozen other sources I've tried -- butfrommy experience, if you've got a bunny in stasis or heading into stasis during a bout of CD, and you can't get them to eat hay and water, pumpkin and/or a Critical Care slurry (an enhancedpellet powder mix made by Oxbow) is the next best thing. It has nutrients,liquid and fiber.

Georgie is still eating...and eating pretty well, actually. He's still eating his pellets and eats quite a bit of hay. I'm not concerned about stasis right now, as I clearly see droppings and see him eating. The problem that I've been having is that it's extremely soft. What's the difference between Cecal Dysbiosis and Coccidosis? Is Cecal Dysbiosis just a disorder and Coccidosis more of a bacteria infection?

 

[Haley]

Coccidia is caused by an intestinal parasite,where as CD is an in balance in the bacteria in the gut (usually caused by too many carbs in the diet).

Heres a great article http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/poop.html