Rory in stasis? RESOLVED

[SnowyShiloh]

Hi everyone, I'm worried about my Rory boy. He usually poops almost exclusively in his litter box, but I came home from class and work the other day to find that he'd pooped all over his cage. Good, healthy looking doots, but it set off alarm bells in my head because Cinnabun had a few stray poops right before he died, which was out of character for him. I've been keeping a close eye on Rory for the past couple days of course.

A quick background: Rory just turned 2 years old and has been perfectly healthy his whole life. No issues at all. He is shedding right now, and is very fluffy so that's a lot of fur he could be ingesting even though I use the Furminator on him. He's still eating and drinking his water, hay and pellets, and is still grooming himself. His poops look normal and his butt is clean. He does seem a little less active to me (he let me pick him up without a struggle today, which he only allows sometimes) but I could be imagining it . Most worrying to me is that he's still pooping out of the litter box, and his abdomen feels slightly firmer than normal. Paul thinks his belly feels normal, but I think it's firmer.

We just went to the store and I bought simethicone drops, fruity flavored Pedialyte (an electrolyte drink for babies and kids), a whole pineapple, baby apple juice to potentially put in his water if he stops drinking, and several varieties of baby food if we need to tempt him, plus lots of leafy greens. I also have some Benebac meant for birds and reptiles (if it's any different from regular Benebac), but it's for my birdies who have diarrhea. I could get some more at the vet tomorrow along with some Critical Care.

In a minute here I'm going to clean his cage and litter box so I can really keep an eye on his litter box habits, and I'm going to give him some romaine lettuce, pineapple, Pedialyte and simethicone. Going to let him out to run around too. I'll update if anything interesting happens. I plan on calling the vet first thing in the morning too.

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Okay, I cleaned Rory's cage and litter boxes and all his poops are normal colored and consistency, but he has a higher than normal number of poops stuck together with hair. About a year ago he pooped 9 poops all strung together like a pearl necklace, so this isn't a new phenomenon! Rory's been out running around for about an hour now and is acting normal- binkying, running away from me rollseyes), going up and down the stairs, hopping on the couch, pulling papers off the coffee table, stealing dog figurines off the shelf, digging at the bedroom door... He isn't letting me pick him up so I haven't been able to give him the simethicone or tummy rub (I was going to use the electric toothbrush), but I gave him a plate of lettuce and a piece of pineapple. Pineapple was wolfed down immediately and he's eating the lettuce, but stopping by every few minutes to eat a leaf then running off. Usually he eats it all right away.

I forgot to say before that I got a Snuggle Safe for Christmas and plan to warm it up for him before I go to bed. Also, I should note that he hasn't been pressing his belly to the floor, his temperature feels normal and no tooth grinding. He grinds his teeth whenever he feels remotely stressed or unhappy, so it's a good sign that he's not doing it.

I'm relieved he's acting pretty normally. I still plan on taking him to the vet tomorrow but I'm not freaking out.

 

[jcl_24]

Yay for Rory being active . His poop consistency being right is a good sign toobut there is NOTHING wrong with being cautious.

That you are so sensitive to your buns actions and responses is really good. When you've spent time with a bun and know them,as soon astheir familiar habits suddenly change, it makes sense to question why.

Hoping Rory is given the all clear by the vet and your anxiety can lessen.

Jo xx

 

[dquesnel]

Hi, well I definitely think (and so do many of the members on the forum) that a heavy shed puts an enormous burden on some rabbits, if not most. They behave different, eat, poop different, habits change during this time. One of my guys gets very cranky during his shed and resumes being an affectionate rabbit once he is done.

The loss of litter habits could be him not feeling as generally well that day, or sometimes it is a protest (were you away for quite a while that day?)

I think you are doing everything well, water, lots of greens and vet visit. However try to stay calm with him, as they are superstars at picking up on our nervous/stressed energy and getting themselves worse.

My Chloe is shedding bad (it has already been going on for two months) and he just had a very rare case of gas today. I stuffed him with simethicone, gave him a pat on the head and left the house for an hour with a pile of greens for him to eat. By the time I got home, he was well again and the greens were gone. I am positive it is because of the shed.

Groom the rabbits everyday while they are shedding, its hard to do with the ones that hate being picked up or groomed but that is life, they will thank you when they don't get stasis!
:bunnydance:

 

[tonyshuman]

I also think it's a shed. It sounds like you're doing a good job, especially since he's running around. Might want to try some canned pumpkin instead of so much pineapple--I know many swear by fresh pineapple, but it can be sugary.

Do you know the brand and/or ingredients of your bird/reptile probiotic? We can tell you if it's similar to Bene-Bac.

 

[SnowyShiloh]

I don't know what to do, it seems like everything is conspiring against me right now. Before I went to bed last night, I left Rory with his bowl of water, a bowl of Pedialyte, a bowl of water with apple juice and a little bowl of apple-butternut squash baby food. My boyfriend didn't go to bed until 7:30 this morning and I went to bed at 4 am then got up at 8, and Paul says he didn't notice if Rory drank anything. The baby food looks untouched but it's hard to tell if he drank any of the other options.

When I went downstairs at 8 am, he was lying in his cage looking normal. He let me pick him up and his belly actually felt normal to me. However, he didn't get as excited about his food as usual and only ate a few pellets before hopping up to the top level of the cage and loafing again. Worst of all, his litter box only had like 5 poops after more than 4 hours of him being in there. I gave him a piece of pineapple and he stuck his nose up at it- very unusual behavior for him because he loves pineapple. When I just talked to Paul, he said Rory has eaten the piece of pineapple by now which is good.

I called the vet right after I woke up and OF COURSE, his vet is not in today OR tomorrow. Neither is the other pretty good rabbit vet. The only "rabbit" vet available is the girl who misdiagnosed Tallulah's mites and URI last spring, saying they were nothing when they definitely were something. Also the same vet who Tallulah had to see the day she died because our vet was not there. This vet said Tallulah was getting better and sent her home with me even though her temperature was low, she was barely conscious and her breathing was irregular. Lu died half an hour later. Our other encounters with this vet have always resulted in the problem being mistreated. So you can see why I'm reluctant to bring him to see this vet- I think I know more about rabbit medicine than she does! There are no other rabbit vets in this town or anywhere within hours.

So, what do I do? Take Rory to see an inexperienced vet and probably spend 600-700 dollars in the process when he likely won't be helped? Wait until Wednesday, which seems soooooooo far away? His vet is technically in tomorrow, but she's doing surgeries all day and not seeing patients.

I'm worried that Rory may be getting dehydrated and surely the vet could at least give him sub q fluids.

I started hyperventilating and crying on my walk to the bus stop this morning because I was imagining holding Rory's dead body. Not healthy thinking, I know, but I couldn't help it.

To make it even worse, I had to go to my math class this morning (absolutely had to), and the next bus isn't for an hour and a half when they normally run every 20-30 minutes so we're delaying when I can get home. Plus I have a huge gigantic ton of essays, tests, projects, etc due this week, have to work, my coworker is dying and I'm sick. :cry2

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Tonyshuman, the brand is Benebac. I *think* it's the same stuff we gave Tallulah. Also, Rory hates squash and refuses to eat pumpkin, zucchini, butternut, spaghetti squash and acorn squash in any form. I'd hoped the apple butternut would go over okay because of the apple (I tasted it and it was yummy!), but he didn't eat that either.

 

[tonyshuman]

The reptile/avian formation has the same microorganisms as the dog/cat/small animal one, except the L. casei is an avian strain. It should be almost equivalent, so it would be good to give him a bit.

It's hard to say if it's time to take him in. I definitely wouldn't want to have him go to the bad rabbit vet. It could be possible for you to drop Rory off and have the vet look at him between surgeries or whenever he has a chance. However, since he's still eating and pooping, although it's reduced amounts, he probably doesn't need to go in right now. However, I don't want you to stress out over this, so the best option may be to take him in to the good vet tomorrow and ask them to take a quick look at him between surgeries as an emergency vet visit. It will at least buy you some peace of mind if you are really worried about waiting until Wednesday.

Why do you think he's getting dehydrated? It seems he's acting mostly normal, except for not wanting to eat as much. Does his skin seem less supple or does he have reduced urine output? You could add a drop of vanilla to his water or give him a bowl of pedialyte or soak his greens in water before you give him to them. You can also add some fresh pineapple juice to his water.

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Claire, I just didn't see him drink any water yesterday. That doesn't mean he didn't drink any, but I didn't see it. I tried to syringe him some water just in case but that made for one very unhappy and wet Rory. I made sure to make his lettuce last night very wet and will do the same when we get home. I'll give him more Pedialyte but I don't know if he wants to drink it. Last night he was interested in the apple juice water and went over to sniff it, but didn't drink any. I considered measuring how much water was in his water bowl so I could tell if he'd had any, but it's so dry here that water evaporates quickly so I'm not sure how accurate that will be. I'll try anyway though. Maybe he would like pineapple juice in water better than apple juice in water since he loves pineapple. He also likes apple though!

I can't wait to get home so I can watch him more. I'll let him out of his cage to run around and give him more lettuce. I feel like a bad mommy because I forgot to give him his snuggle safe last night

 

[tonyshuman]

Ok, I see. I think for now you're doing a good job of preventing the GI upset from getting worse, even if it doesn't seem to be getting better yet. It can probably wait until Wed for the vet, but I can understand if you're too worried about it. Good luck. :thumbup

 

[dquesnel]

I completely agree with what Clare (tonyshuman) said- it may not be time for the vet yet but also it may help YOU if he gets looked at.

Is it warming up where you are? When the weather changes, and the rabbits are in a shed I always have a tough time with them. They do get slower and the appetite goes down. I think part of the reduced appetite has to do with the warming weather and the other part is that there may be too much hair in the gut, giving them a feeling of fullness. They won't drink much either when they feel full and tired. However, if he is eating his greens Rory is getting a ton of water from those, so much that water from a dish may be unnecessary to him. If he has had wet greens, there is no way he is dehydrated yet so no worries there.

You are very stressed out and not feeling so good right now, so Rory may be picking up on that. You are the rabbits 'alpha' in their warren, and if they sense you are distraught it will disturb them. Its kind of like the army general running away with his troops watching, LOL! ullhair: Best to keep yourself as relaxed as possible around them, and if you are like me and can't keep too calm sometimes, I just try to be around the rabbits as little as possible... Not always a practical solution, but they are independent and it doesn't help them to be stressed.

My boys won't eat pumpkin either so I just push the greens. It is time for a second veggie meal right now actually. Keep us posted on how things are looking... And definitely don't go to a vet you are not comfortable with. It will most likely not help either of you.

 

[Maureen Las]

Are you able to give him pedialye per syringe.I do this a lot and they usually like the taste.

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Thanks so much for the advice and encouragement, you two! You've made me feel a lot less worried. I just got home and let Rory out of his cage, he hopped around a bit but is now back in his cage grooming himself. He likes his cage though and tends to spend time in it even when the door is open, so hopefully he'll come out again soon. I just made him a big plate of romaine, celery and parsley but he hasn't eaten any yet. It looks like he ate some of his pellets, but not a lot. I think the bunnies don't like the pellets I bought recently because both he and Phoebe (who is perfectly healthy) haven't been wolfing them down as quickly as usual, they've been taking a few hours to eat their pellets. It's the same kind of pellets they've always eaten, but I noticed the color is greener than it used to be. I first bought the greener pellets about a month ago so I don't *think* his tummy is upset at the new food.

Oh hey, he's eating some pellets now! He also just tossed around a toy a little.

I'm going to watch him a bit longer and then call the vet office to find out if they'd let me drop him off tomorrow morning to be seen by his regular vet between surgeries.

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Angie, unfortunately the only syringe I have is the one that came with the simethicone drop and it's a dropper, not a syringe. I tried giving him water that way last night and he hated it. I'll let him eat more pellets then try to give him some Pedialyte via dropper. I'm going to sprinkle his hay with apple juice too. Oh and I looked at his gums and eyes, they appear their normal pink color and look moist. I tried to tent the skin on the back of his neck but it's fine. Also, his temperature seems good- I compared him to Phoebe Mae and Skyler. He's right in the middle, Phoebe Mae is cooler and Skyler is warmer than him.

Should I give him some Benebac? How much? He weighs about 4 pounds. Poor guy is really mad at me right now because I keep making him eat things and squeeze his belly and brush him! He's usually a pretty cuddly dude, but he goes through his grouchy phases and he was in one of them before he even got sick.

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Okay, Rory is eating parsley if I poke the long end in his mouth and annoy him with it. He's also eaten a little lettuce, has come out of the cage to hop around some, and he peed in the corner! That's not usually something I'd be happy about, but I'll take what I can get. All three bunnies are drawn to a certain corner in the room and I try to discourage them from going there by blocking it, but I removed the block to see what Rory would do. He also pooped more in his litter box while I was gone but there's not a ton of poop.

 

[tonyshuman]

I just give about an eighth of a teaspoon of benebac. Just squirt some on to a piece of lettuce or treat--about the size of a dime, and have him eat it. You may not want to bug him too much to make him stressed, but activity is good.

 

[Maureen Las]

it sounds like he is improving some....

You can buy syringes for animals at petco or petsmart.

It's almost impossible to do anything with those little droppers

On the benebac powder for small mammals it says to give 1 level teaspoon per 1-5 lbs

obviously theire is a wide range

Iusually just sprinkle some in a piece of banana and then 'smoosh" the banana around
you can give it (or wait) he sounds like he is improving whatever you are doing

I have also asked the pharmacist at a regular drug store for a few 10cc syringes to feed my rabbits and they have given them to me.

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Okay, this might sound silly, but do I need to worry about him getting sick from using the same Benebac as the birds? They're getting the Benebac gel once a day because they have diarrhea, the vet ran tests and they have a lot of gram positive bacteria in their poop. Good news is they've been acting fine and their poop is looking more normal. I just don't want to cross contaminate because I squirt the Benebac right into the bird's mouths from the tube. I'll try putting about 1/8 teaspoon on something tasty for Rory, wish I had a banana!

Okay, I just called Paul because he went on some errands, he's going to bring Rory some bananas and syringes Rory is taking a nap in his cage, bunny loaf style.

 

[JadeIcing]

One thing I do...(Ok may sound stupid.) I measure EXACTLY how much I put into the water bowl when trying to figure how much a sick bunny drank. That way I than measure to see if they drank any. Does that make sense?

 

[Maureen Las]

You know I just looked up benebac for birds and the Lactobacillus casei microorganism is the 'Avian strain" which makes me believe that it is not the same as for mammals

http://www.arcatapet.com/item.cfm?cat=3752

I honestly do not know if this makes a difference

The other consideration that you brought up may be legit
birds do carry coccidia and i don't know for sure about cross contamination but since I have a parrot I woukld not use the same med that i squirted in the birds mouth.

if you already did it i would not worry about it

but if you didn't i would get separate benebac for small animals or probios for horses.