RIP - Sidney has gotten up with Wry Neck

[Leader of the Pack]

I'm sorry I haven't been around much of late but it's been one major thing after another in our family the past two weeks...

Now I get up this morning and find Sidney setting "too quietly" in a cubby next to my computer and her head is tilted ever so slightly to the right...if we're facing each other. Here is a picture I have just taken of her.

She has not rolled, or tipped or leaned...she still seems able to stand on her own 4 feet. Although I was the one that moved her from the computer desk cubby and put her into her little tent, which is where you see her in the picture. I offered her some Romaine lettuce which she ate. But she's not herself. I know she ran around all night, and chased with the cats as usual as late as midnight, which was the last time I was up with the dogs and caught her in the kitchen.

I can get her to my normal vet by 8:00 this morning, and he'll be able to look inside her ear and tell if there is infection or just what. But what I am concerned about is will he be able to offer the right treatment? A Netherland Dwarf that we had several years ago got a serious case of Wry Neck, which we treated with injections of Baytril. But her treatment was a "team effort" with the vet working as much with me and the advice from "rabbit friends who were breeders" in regards to what medicine worked best; and his medical knowledge of drugs being suggested, etc.

Is Baytril still the drug of choice for this illness, and what about Depo-Medrol? I quickly looked up "Wry Neck" and see that it is being used in lieu of antibiotics in some cases. Sidney has had problems with her ears off and on since we adopted her. But up to now she's just had an ear that would lop and we've treated her for earmites which seemed to correct the problem.

This time though its the combination of her being so quiet, and her head tilting to one side that has me so extremely nervous and upset. Do you think we are in the beginning stages of Wry Neck?

We sure hate to bother you guys, and don't expect you to be vets, but I know I can't get her to a "rabbit specialist" in Memphis today. Our local vet is going to have to do for at least today. Any help you'll offer would be so appreciated.

Thank you ahead of time...Terri

 

[Leader of the Pack]

Anybody?

 

[Bo B Bunny]

She needs to see a vet ASAP - the sooner they get her on medicine, the better she might be. PIPP and Gabby are excellent to talk to. I dont' know much but I know they have dealt with this sort of thing with success.

I'm sorry I'm not much help.

 

[Leader of the Pack]

Thank you for your response Bo B Bunny....

I got her to the vet first thing and he examined her ear. He said he could see some fluid in her ear but there was no puss, no redness.Hecleaned her ear out with some drying solution andwants me to put some Baytril-otic in her ear a couple times a day for a few days and see ifthat works.

After having longer to observe her since I took that picture so early this morning she's not holding her head at a tilt all the time. Since Doc cleaned out her earshe's back to just mainlyletting her ear hang low.She's not flopping aroundand doesn't seem unsteady on her feet. I maystill just be in "panic mode", especially since I have seen first hand what a real case of Wry Neck can do to a rabbit.

It's also hard to judge if her "being quite" this morning was just normal, because she is up and running around with the cats all night long, and normally, she rests or sleeps all day.

I still welcome any thoughts or comments from those who have experience...especially in catching symptoms of Wry Neck in it's early stages.

IfSidney has fluid in her ear there is something going on....I just know that with bunnies they don't give you much time to "wait and watch".

Sorry if I'm over reacting....:tears2:

 

[ra7751]

Umm...you caught my attention. I deal with torticollis (wry neck, head tilt) often and have some advanced treatment protocols for dealing with it. The vast majority of tilt is caused by a bacterial and/or yeast infection in the middle and/or inner ear. Most vets are far too conservative in treating vestibular infections. Improper treatment can lead to a migrating infection and it usually migrates to the brain stem....have one in our rescue like that now. Infections that are not properly treated usually lead to severe damage to the ear drum and that usually results in a high degree of hearing loss.

I would ask your vet for a more aggressive treatment. Baytril Otic is a very effective and safe drug but it's not usually up to the task at hand in a rabbit...maybe a dog, OK....but not a rabbit. Most ear infections are caused by pasteurella in a rabbit. The proper way to treat this infection is to culture the debris in the ear to see exactly what is there. My drugs of choice (I am not a vet....I do treat a lot of very sick rabbits) is Zithromax, Chloramphenicol or Penicillin in addition to the drops for most bacterial infections...but knowing what you are dealing with is very imporant....the risks are far too great to assume. Ear infections are also quite painful so your rabbit should at least be on an anti-inflammatory for pain and swelling. I would pay close attention to the body temp. We have had some vestibular infections that caused body temps in the 105 range....and that can be life threatening.

Treating the tilt can be a long term issue and I have treated for as long as 8 months. An aggressive treatment protocol will give your rabbit the best chance at correction. Feel free to PM me if you would like more detailed information.

Randy

 

[juliew19673]

Sorry to hear of Sidney - hope what Randy suggests will help you and your Vet come up with the best course of treatment.. Please update as to what bacteria they find and what meds they give as it seems so many buns come down with this..

Good luck and give Sidney a nose rub for me!

 

[Bo B Bunny]

Thanks Randy! I forgot you have dealt with wry neck also!

I emailed Gabby because she's worked with hers and she's a vet tech I believe. What a sweetheart to email me back on her lunch! I really trust Randy too! buthere's what she told me:



I'm on my lunch break right now, and i decided to check my mail.
Do they have access to any medications(obviously bunny safe drugs), like maybe left overs from something else or a friends bunny with stuff, or are we talking nothing available at all to them until they can get to a vet?, panacur, antibiotics, sq fluids?

If they have nothing available to them, I would try and get extra fluids into this bun even if they are still drinking, and if the eating has dropped off at all i'd start force feeding now, massaging the neck is never to early to start that because the muscles get tight quick.

with out knowing what they have access to it's hard to say what else they should do. but they dehydrate so very quickly with this very important to keep them hydrated. and keeping their gut moving as you know, because stasis often becomes a secondary conditionwith a tilted head. I wont be home till after 7pm my time. ( we are both east coast right?)

keeping bun comfortable, if we are rolling then prop with towels, also if we are rolling and the head is down they can buy artificial tear OINTMENT in the eye care isle of the human dept to lube the eye with if that's an issue yet. making sure they are keeping he back end clean, because it is so very hard for those buns to control their bladder and they often pee on themselves.

Do we know how bad it is, or when they will be able to get into a vet? sadly it's so very crucial to get meds into them ASAP, Brice did end up having to wait a day, that's one the reasons why i think he's still slightly tilted, granted he had it far worse than Gypsy too, but Gypsy doesn't have any sigh of a tilt at all and i started her on meds prob an hour or 2 after she first started showing symptoms.

I hope this helps for now, sorry I can't do more, And I gotta head back to work. I come home at lunch to let my dogs out. but I should be home by7-7:30, latest 8pm..

 

[Leader of the Pack]

I'm addressing this to all who have so generously taken the time to respond....thank you SO much. And please Bo B...thank your friend Gabby for me. Here is an update.

As I said in another post I did take Sidney to the vet this morning....8 a.m. our time.

All that our vet could find in her ear was "a little fluid"....no puss, no reddness, nothing that indicated to him an infection... He wants to avoid antibiotics for now and just cleaned the ear out and wants me to put "Baytril-Otic" in it twice a day for a couple days....try that first.

But my gut reaction is more in line with the response I got from Randy. I expected that even if we "suspected" Wry Neck that we should treat aggressively??

She's intent on setting here by me in the computer cubby, which is fine I can monitor her movements the best there. The only thing that I question at the moment...is her breathing, I think it looks a little rapid....and she licks her lips and moves her mouth around now and then like shes trying to chew something...We did check her teeth while we were at the vet this morning also...and they look good. She seems uncomfortable.....that's the best way I know too describe it. Even though now her head and ear are neither one tilted or flopped.....she just still seems uncomfortable.

Here she is in a picture I just took of her a few minutes ago.....

I have some Zithromax, which was compounded last Thursday for a 9 month old cat/kitten that we rescued who has tested negative for all cat diseases, but has a terrible sinus infection. The cat/kitten is much smaller than Sidney (rabbit) and the doseage is 1 cc, once per week.

Should I call the vet and push the idea that we begin giving Sidney some antibiotics?

Is it even possible for a rabbit to have fluid in the ear....without the risk of Wry Neck?

I don't know and my vet surely doesn't seem to know....I'm sorry for putting you all through this. I know you probably think I'm horrible for not being able to find a better vet for her......I've got some Pedilyte as well as baby food to syringe into her if need be. She's not touching her "bunny salad" right now and has turned her nose up to raisins.

 

[juliew19673]

Hi well I'm glad that Sidney is straight headed again, but I would think you should PM Randy w/this new info (if you haven't already done so).. Good luck and post back.. And no I do not think your horrible for not having a better Vet, mine is supposedly one of the best in Los Angeles, he gets some thing wrong.. I think Randy is probably better than most.

 

[Pipp]

Did they give her pain meds? That really is essential to get her eating again, although you do have to give the meds with food and a little water. If they didn't give you anything, I'd go for Motrin. I give my little guys 1/4 of a tab of berry flavored Baby Motrin. You can mix it with apple sauce, banana or whatever they like.

The other possible reason for her discomfort aside fromthe pain from the ear itself is her GI Tract is reacting to her lack of food intake which can put her in a stasis situation pretty quick, and that causes gas and discomfort..

How are her poops?If they're small and infrequent, depending on what other drugs she's on, you can give her baby gas meds with Simethicone as well (check the Library listing for more info) and give her gentle tummy massages along with the neck massages. Canned pumpkin isa great source of wet fibre, that will help keep the tract working properly.

Pedialyte is always good.

Good luck! Hope she's feeling better soon!



sas :clover:

 

[ChandieLee]

Leader of the Pack wrote:

and moves her mouth around now and then like shes trying to chew something...

What you're describing here sounds like Sidney may be in pain. When rabbits are in pain, they will grind their teeth.

 

[Leader of the Pack]

juliew19673 wrote:

Hi well I'm glad that Sidney is straight headed again, but I would think you should PM Randy w/this new info (if you haven't already done so).. Good luck and post back.. And no I do not think your horrible for not having a better Vet, mine is supposedly one of the best in Los Angeles, he gets some thing wrong.. I think Randy is probably better than most.

I did pm Randy....

I don't think I can expect to get my vet to do a culture though.

I know I makemy vetsound terrible and quite the contrary, he is wonderful with dogs, cats horses and cattle.....rabbits and birds are little to none on the client list though....although he's never lost one of my buns yet....

I should calm down and probably BREATH.....

 

[Leader of the Pack]

Pipp wrote:

Did they give her pain meds? That really is essential to get her eating again, although you do have to give the meds with food and a little water. If they didn't give you anything, I'd go for Motrin. I give my little guys 1/4 of a tab of berry flavored Baby Motrin. You can mix it with apple sauce, banana or whatever they like.

The other possible reason for her discomfort aside fromthe pain from the ear itself is her GI Tract is reacting to her lack of food intake which can put her in a stasis situation pretty quick, and that causes gas and discomfort..

How are her poops?If they're small and infrequent, depending on what other drugs she's on, you can give her baby gas meds with Simethicone as well (check the Library listing for more info) and give her gentle tummy massages along with the neck massages. Canned pumpkin isa great source of wet fibre, that will help keep the tract working properly.

Pedialyte is always good.

Good luck! Hope she's feeling better soon!



sas :clover:

No, nothing for pain. Her poops are small and dry as of this afternoon.....Based on what you've written Pipp I'm going out to get some berry flavored baby Motrin...all I've got is orange flavored baby aspirin. I've got some apple sauce and syringed some into her a few minutes ago. She wasn't very responsive. As in, didn't make much motion to swirl it in her mouth and swollow. I'll also get some banana and some canned pumpkin....Be back in a minute.

If anyone has any specific directions for how much and how often that would help a lot as well. Right now I"m thinking I should try to syringe feed her every couple hours.....is that too much? I don't want to stress her out handling her too much.

 

[JadeIcing]

I say push for the test as hard as possible. Start treatment soon. I can not stress how key it is to fight this hard from the start. I was some what passive at first with my rabbits treatment and now have to be on him 24/7 about every slight change in him.

This is a small dose of what I have been through.



Rolling Bunny(With Pictures and Video) (NEW SETUP!)

Help? (update)


I am currently AGAIN treating him for ear infections and tilt.

 

[Leader of the Pack]

There is no easy way to tell you all this......but she just suddenly died in my arms a few minutes ago.

I had just gotten back from the store with all the things suggested here and had poured some carrot juice to give her. When I got to her tent I slid her toward me and her breathing was so raspy and sounded so full of fluid. I checked her nose and mouth for signs of snuffles and nothing......

She fought me when I tried to pick her up but I got her comfortable in my lap and got over to the phone to see if my vet would meet me at the clinic as it was after office hours and before I could get him on the phone she made a horrible squeel and when I got doc on the phone she squeeled again, took a deep breath and died in my arms.

Neither my vet or I can imagine what has killed her like this.....Thank you all for your help...I've got to go....

 

[Gabby]

typically i do not force feed more than 3 times a day, spaced out through out the day. often times twice a day is ok.

lops, or a bunny with an ear down are more prone to infections in their ears, that's not to say that all lops will get infections,just that they run a higher risk.

I will tell you that my bun Brice had fluid on his inner ear, we did try to get a sample, a smear on a slide, but it came up nothing... But still I'd try.

I do think if "wry neck" is suspected, that treating fast and hard is the answer, at least in my opinion. Every since Brice's Wry neck, we've been treating clients buns in a very similar fashion, and having great success with it too.

We do use an anitibiotic, a steroid for inflammation, and panacur, Some times other things are added in, and antibiotic of choice varies depending on what we believe the reason is. We also do SQ fluids to keep them well hydrated. And force feeding, because most wont eat.

Brice was also on gentocin otic ear drops, triple antibiotic eye meds, because the down eye was getting irritated.



We use panacur for 2 reasons, 1 it is recommended in cases of EC, and 2, if they have any parasites in their system, they will be able to attack the animals better now their immune system is compromised. Of course the jury is still out on how well it works for EC, but it is said that titre results show a decrease after treatment.



What size is your bun, 6-8 lbs? hard to tell from a picture.



Sadly enough for myself I have first hand knowledge of what it feels like having dealt with an illness in humans that is pretty much the same thing I think it was 3 months ago.. It was the tail end of treating Gypsy thank goodness, she was maintaining herself I only had to give some meds. It's given me a whole new perspective on it.

Let me know if I can be of any help. --Gabby

 

[Gabby]

Leader of the Pack wrote:

There is no easy way to tell you all this......but she just suddenly died in my arms a few minutes ago.

I had just gotten back from the store with all the things suggested here and had poured some carrot juice to give her. When I got to her tent I slid her toward me and her breathing was so raspy and sounded so full of fluid. I checked her nose and mouth for signs of snuffles and nothing......

She fought me when I tried to pick her up but I got her comfortable in my lap and got over to the phone to see if my vet would meet me at the clinic as it was after office hours and before I could get him on the phone she made a horrible squeel and when I got doc on the phone she squeeled again, took a deep breath and died in my arms.

Neither my vet or I can imagine what has killed her like this.....Thank you all for your help...I've got to go....

I'm sorry I was writing my message while you were writing yours I'm so very sorry

 

[Bo B Bunny]

I'm so sorry! I knew it was going to be urgent and why I tried to get you some help really quick.... I am so sorry! :bigtears:

 

[Alexah]

I didn't have much advice this morning or afternoon to offer, but I did read your posts and have kept up with this thread. I kept you and Sidney in my prayers all today and am heartbroken to see this tonight. I'm so, so sorry for your loss.

RIP, sweet girl.

 

[JadeIcing]

I am so sorry.