Resolved! Dotty looking better

[Bo B Bunny]

Could you mix something in with some babyfood? or watered down pellets?

I made a slurry for Clover when she was a baby. We would put pellets, water (or replacer milk at that time) and bananas. She loved it.

If she is used to pellets.... maybe she wants pellets? give her a few and then something really moist with it?

 

[Flashy]

Could you slurry her pellet like Bo said?

Some things we also tried were cutting herbs into tiny peices and mushing them in with critical care, or putting them in water when they needed to drink.

I would think you could 'food process' anything really, so herbs and such might work, if she likes them.

What about oats? Will she eat those? If she does, maybe make a porride made with oats and water and maybe a bit of herbs?

If she is still interested in grass maybe that could be eaten?

It can be hard for us to know that one of our buns is in hospital (if it happens) but remember it's best for her, and whilst horrible for you, if she needs those things its better for her to get what she needs at hospital, rather than be at home where you want her, and maybe get iller. Hopefully, if she is admitted, they will find whatever is doing this and they will put her on the road to recovery.

 

[Maureen Las]

That's really a shame
she's behaving normally and pooping because you're feeding her but not eating herself ? right?

Did the vet take her temperature?

 

[JimD]

ray:

 

[DeniseJP]

How are you and Dotty doing today?

Denise

 

[mouse_chalk]

Flashy wrote:

Could you slurry her pellet like Bo said?

Some things we also tried were cutting herbs into tiny peices and mushing them in with critical care, or putting them in water when they needed to drink.

I would think you could 'food process' anything really, so herbs and such might work, if she likes them.

What about oats? Will she eat those? If she does, maybe make a porride made with oats and water and maybe a bit of herbs?

If she is still interested in grass maybe that could be eaten?

It can be hard for us to know that one of our buns is in hospital (if it happens) but remember it's best for her, and whilst horrible for you, if she needs those things its better for her to get what she needs at hospital, rather than be at home where you want her, and maybe get iller. Hopefully, if she is admitted, they will find whatever is doing this and they will put her on the road to recovery.

Thank you Tracy. :hug: You are right, that it will be the best place for her. I just will be such a mess. I think of when Chalk was in there for 5 days and how sick with worry we were. I just don't want to go through that again.... :tears2:

She's getting Oxbow Critical Care at the moment, and she normally eats Oxbow BBT pellets, so it is very similar. I have been leaving the bowl of the mix on the floor next to her regular bowl but she just pushes it out the way.

The only thing we did think of is to try giving her some of the old pellets that we switched her from, the Pets At Home adult nuggets. She finished the switch over about 3-4 weeks ago, but I guess it couldn't hurt to give them a try?


We put some oats in with her food yesterday I think, and she ate those, but not the other stuff. I'll definitely try the porridge-type mixture though... I'll try anything at this stage...



Maureen, no she didn't take her temperature come to think of it. I imagine it was because she didn't want to stress her out even more as she had been waiting a while in the carrier and was quite unhappy by the time we got in there. I'll ask the vet in the morning to take it though...


Bless our vet- it's her birthday today, she was on call all night last night and squeezed us in at what was supposed to be the late appt at 5.30. We didn't get in the consultation til 6.15 because some woman had turned up late for the vaccinations and check-ups of FIFTEEN PUPPIES and had held up all the staff. She didn't rush at all though and chatted to us for ages... She wont be there in the morning as it's her day off but she says she is writing very detailed notes for the other vet including how far apart her gut sounds were and what they sounded like.


Off to go try out some 'recipes' with the blender....

 

[Flashy]

I think trying old pellets is worth a shot, but maybe only offer a couple for now. If she eats the oats, and her tummy is used to them, then I would go with that. It would be better than nothing.

Some bunnies are sneaky, is there any possibility that maybe she might east if you're not there? Some of mine love to 'sneak' parsley or basil when it's still on the plant, because they think they shouldn't. Likewise they like to 'sneak' pellets out of the pellet bag.

I wonder if maybe some sort of webcam could be set up so you could watch her without her knowing? It might give you more insight because they are often very different with us than when alone.

There are very few rabbits on this forum that I really look for and Dotty is one of those (probably because I want one of my own) and I just love her, and would hate for anything to happen to her. You're doing a great job, and I know the stress is also probably adding to your dizziness, but you really are doing great, Yes, it is horrid when they are not with us, but sometimes continually reminding ourselves that they are in the best place can help. A bit, lol.

 

[Maureen Las]

I reread this whole thread trying to find clues.
it seems as if she got worse when she went off pain meds . Maybe she still needs them although maybe you could try another one like tramodol.

the other thing that occured to me is that you are feeding her a lot on her own; maybe she isn't hungry'

Is she still bouncing around actingnormal?

 

[mouse_chalk]

Flashy wrote:

There are very few rabbits on this forum that I really look for and Dotty is one of those (probably because I want one of my own) and I just love her, and would hate for anything to happen to her. You're doing a great job, and I know the stress is also probably adding to your dizziness, but you really are doing great, Yes, it is horrid when they are not with us, but sometimes continually reminding ourselves that they are in the best place can help. A bit, lol.

Aww, thank you so much Tracy :hug: It was really a comfort to read that. I think I've just had a majorly crappy day today as well as with all this, and it's just hit me that it's been over 3 days now. I think that I'm also freaking out because when I was looking up Zantac last night online I came across another story on a different forum about a bun who was in stasis, for a good few days, and was hospitalised, but didn't improve, and they let her go to the bridge in the end :cry2 It's really been playing on my mind and I know I have to stop thinking about it because it's really not healthy, but I can't help worrying that Dotty might go that way....

My dizziness is terrible but I would take it 10x worse if it meant that she was better and healthy!


It's funny you should say that about eating when we're not looking- because when we went out earlier we made a mental note of all the veggies in her bowl, how her pile of hay looked, and what her water level was. When we came back I went straight upstairs to see if it had changed, and it hadn't, apart from one stem of basil had disappeared from the floor. I have always thought the opposite, that maybe she wasn't eating because we weren't there- she loves to eat out of our hands, and sometimes if we sit down with her in the bedroom when she gets her dinner she'll sit on our laps and eat it! I'd been worrying that maybe she'd been too babied in that respect, lol. But she wont eat out of our hands or anything at all at the moment.


I made a 'smoothie' of basil, carrot tops, lots of water, and some oats, and syringed her about 20ml of it. She seemed to find it quite tasty, and took it easier than the critical care, which she also got. She also got another 5ml of fibreplex and 20ml of water. Her face is all green, the colour of pesto now lol...


We tried some of the old pellets and she wasn't interested. Just a few, but she pushed them away. She DID however eat a few oats out of Steve's hand, but she got bored of them very quickly...

We're going to go feed her some more in an hour, and if I'm awake in the night I'll feed her some more as well. I'm going to give it everything we've got to try and ensure she doesn't have to be admitted tomorrow....

 

[Sabine]

I'll keep my fingers crossed that she'll have come round by tomorrow. You are doing all you can right now and Dotty will sure know that. Maybe try some more grass if you can find any.

 

[mouse_chalk]

angieluv wrote:

I reread this whole thread trying to find clues.
it seems as if she got worse when she went off pain meds . Maybe she still needs them although maybe you could try another one like tramodol.

the other thing that occured to me is that you are feeding her a lot on her own; maybe she isn't hungry'

Is she still bouncing around actingnormal?

The only day she was off pain meds is yesterday- at the advice of the vet, but Clara had us start the metacam again today, as a precaution- in case her stomach is hurting as well now.... Maybe Flashy could help me answer this if I'm wrong, but I'm really not sure what other painkillers are available for rabbits over here- I would be fairly certain that tramadol isn't We just don't seem to have the licenses for rabbits that you guys have over there....

I had worried about feeding her too much via syringe, so I didn't give her anything since a bit of water this morning until just now this evening, and she just wasn't interested in a thing.... I am finding it hard to strike a balance between keeping her guts going with enough syringed food and not filling her up too much so she doesn't want to eat!! ullhair:

 

[JimD]

angieluv wrote:

the other thing that occured to me is that you are feeding her a lot on her own; maybe she isn't hungry'

I was just thinking the same thing.

Maybe she's getting enough liquids and food, and isn't that hungry.

Quite a while back I was treating Chippy for stasis.
By the third day she had started pooping and peeing almost normal, but she wasn't eating on her own. She'd pick at things, but leave them for the most part.
The vet assessed what I was syringing as compared to what she normaly ate/drank...and she was getting almost the same.
I almost had to wean her off of the syringing, but almost as soon as I started to reduce syringing she started to eat more on her own.

Does she pass the "treat test"? Will she eat her favorite treats?



ETA: I posted before I saw your reply

 

[JimD]

I don't know what to advise other than try to brainstorm or throw out random stuff to think of.....

Parsley always seemed to prompt my buns to eat.
I would sometimes mist/wet it with chamomile tea...can help to settle upset tummies.

Dandelion greens worked well with Chippy after surgery.
I'm thinking they may help her cleanse the anesthesia out of her system.

Hydration seems to be a key factor with their eating, too.
Even when completely normal, some of my buns will refuse to eat if their waterbottle is empty.

Make sure she getting lots of fluids if you give her rolled oats.
Theycould absorb moisture from their system, starting with the gut.

Sometimes, when a bun goes off it's pellets, I'll try "sweetening" them up...easy enough to do with a bun that normally eats timothy pellets..... I sprinkle a few alfalfa pellets in.

 

[tonyshuman]

I'm just a bit confused. Gut motility drugs, fibre-plex, and zantac seems like a strange combination.

• Fibre-plex appears to be mostly oil, fiber, and probiotic. This seems kind of like a combination of PetroMalt (which is sometimes used here for rabbits) and Benebac (probiotic). I don't like Petromalt because it's just oil with the idea that oiling up the intestinal tract will keep things going. This isn't really how rabbits' intestines work--the best way to keep things moving through is hydration and not oil. I'm not sure the probiotic part of Fibre-plex is right for rabbits--it is mostly brewers' yeast (saccharomyces cervasiae) which isn't a normal resident of the rabbit's gut (I think). Bene-Bac contains mostly lactobacillis species and enterococcus faecium, which I think are more common in a rabbit's gut. I would personally go for Bene-Bac over FibrePlex

(Fibreplex info: http://www.protexin.com/vet/prod_pdf_view.php?id=21&pdf=datapdf , Petromalt info: http://www.jefferspet.com/ssc/assets/label_info/2300.htm , Bene-Bac info: [url]http://www.jefferspet.com/ssc/assets/label_info/4157.htm )[/url]

• Zantac reduces the acidity of the gut, which could be bad for the beneficial bacteria that live there. Or it could be good for them if the pH is too acidic there. I don't know why the gut would be too acidic. It just doesn't make sense to me, but I'm not an expert on the digestive flora of a bunny.

• gut-motility drugs are a lot like the oily products and you know we already don't like them so much around here. It just doesn't sound like the right way to go.

I would go with fluid, Bene-Bac, limited sugar, limited pellets (encourage more hay eating), and mild greens, like dandelion, grass, parsley, romaine. That's just my non-professional opinion. Something may have gone wrong with her gut flora in the period following surgery, but I think the solution is water and Bene-Bac instead.

This is a strange case here... I hope she starts pooping giant poos suitable for a giant bunny and eating every green thing in sight while I type this.

 

[naturestee]

I thought Zantac mainly works on the stomach as opposed to the whole gut? I've heard of it and other acid reducers being used on rabbits to treat/prevent ulcers, which are more likely with stasis or metacam.

The gut motility drugs may actually be useful in this case, I'm not a vet so I can't be sure. In any case her vet seems to be fairly cautious with them although I'd feel better if she had taken an xray.

I might have missed it, but are you giving gas meds? Tummy rubs? Those can be quite helpful.

I really hope she feels better soon! This is becoming quite an ordeal for you. I know you're feeling sick too, but do try to relax and maybe just spend some quiet time with her. Animals are good at picking up on our anxiety.

 

[mouse_chalk]

naturestee wrote:

I thought Zantac mainly works on the stomach as opposed to the whole gut? I've heard of it and other acid reducers being used on rabbits to treat/prevent ulcers, which are more likely with stasis or metacam.

The gut motility drugs may actually be useful in this case, I'm not a vet so I can't be sure. In any case her vet seems to be fairly cautious with them although I'd feel better if she had taken an xray.

I might have missed it, but are you giving gas meds? Tummy rubs? Those can be quite helpful.

I really hope she feels better soon! This is becoming quite an ordeal for you. I know you're feeling sick too, but do try to relax and maybe just spend some quiet time with her. Animals are good at picking up on our anxiety.

She definitely sees an x-ray as being neccessary if it goes on, but I think that she wanted to avoid more possible stressful situations for her if possible. That's the next step tomorrow if she's no better, although I think they'll try an ultrasound first to try and avoid any sedation or anything if possible because she had an aneasthetic last week, and obviously its going to be more difficult for her to get eating again....


I had no idea about the Fibreplex- our vet did say that they'd spoken to the manufacturers and they have only had success in it with rabbits, but of course that was the manufacturers talking I guess. I know that other UK vets use it as well- I'm sure Flashy has said that she's used it with her buns before with antibiotics etc. TBH I really just don't know!

Angela, we haven't given Simeticone yet, I wasn't sure whether to or not, with all the other stuff she's been getting. Can it hurt, should I try some? We have plenty here...

I must admit I did cry on her earlier, and she gave me lots of kisses, but for the most part I'm trying to be normal around her. Luckily she is a VERY cuddly bunny, so it's easy to spend time with her and give her lots of love....


Off to syringe her some more CC and 'smoothies'! Will check back in before we go to sleep....


Thank everyone so so much for all your good thoughts and suggestions. I don't know what I'd do without RO....

 

[slavetoabunny]

I don't have any suggestions beyond what you are already doing, but just want to send :hug1

 

[naturestee]

I'd give the simethicone. I have yet to find any mention of drug interactions with it and it isn't absorbed into the body. Maybe sneak the dose into her syringed food so you don't have to syringe as much into her, unless she likes the taste. Dora used to love it. Mmm mmm good!

Your vet needs anesthetic to do an xray of the gut? I don't know about other peoples'vets but neither of mine usually need anesthetic to do a bunny xray unless the bun is really uncooperative. Most of them are nervous so they sit still like good bunnies. Although maybe you have different procedures over there for the person handliing the animal while the xray is taken. No clue.

 

[Bo B Bunny]

I just wonder if she's decided that you are going to syringe feed her now and she doesn't need to work on eating herself..... That's something my lazy bunnies would do!

I'll be anxious to hear what they say in the morning!

 

[mouse_chalk]

No, they don't always need a general aneasthetic to do an x-ray, but it is sometimes needed if an animal is wriggly, etc. She said they'll avoud it if they can at all. Sorry, probably didnt explain that bit all that well lol! An aneasthetic will be the last resort.

We've just given her some simeticone- she does NOT like that lol! And we gave her some more of the 'bunny pesto' mixture.

She's eaten hay!!! ALL BY HERSELF!!!!!!

That's got to be a good sign?

We're going to sleep now. We're sleeping in the spare room because we had a new bed delivered today that turned out to be broken and we'd already put our old bed and mattress outside in the muddy wet garden:grumpy: so we had nothing to sleep on, so we're sleeping in the double bed in the spare room. Dotty has the run of the landing and our spare room with us in. She normally has this space anyway, the only thing that's different is that she can't get in our bedroom because of the half-assembled bed and the mattress propped up against the wall and it isn't safe in there for her. She has everything she needs out here, and she seems very comfortable. She actually prefers it out here because there's more traction as the floor isn't so slippy. Anyway, she's right next to us all night.

Will update in the morning after the vets..... Hoping for good news.....