Rebirth of the Phoenix from Ashes

[whitelop]

Hmmm...maybe he isn't a licker. Not all of them are, I take is Phoenix is? I guess it would be weird to have one lick and one not, lol. I feel weird when Ellie licks me, because I had NEVER been licked by a rabbit! hahah. Even when Foo was a baby, she never licked me.

I really hope he comes around and grooms her! MEN, sometimes they're just so difficult!

 

[Chrisdoc]

Maybe some rabbits aren´t groomers and are above those things, they prefer to be takers rather than givers. Who knows, Bandy has never licked me and won´t groom however much they put their heads under his...maybe Hippogryph is like him. Only difference is the other two don´t mind (they´re men mind you) and your lady is having none of it lol.

 

[holtzchick]

Phoenix is DEFINITELY a licker, she licks me all the time for no reason... her tongue reminds me of a kidney bean LOL... she will also lick the floor for no reason, toys (as opposed to chewing them) She just loves to lick things.

All went well tonight but Phoenix is holding a grudge. She is mad that he wont groom her, she groomed me and I pet her and she groomed him once to see if he would groom back, well he didn't she tried to nip him, he tried to nip her back, I stopped it. Then he actually demanded grooming many times, when she didn't groom him (because she is mad!) he actually went around and nipped her on the behind to which she nipped him back, I separated it, but I really really don't know how this is going to go :/

I just emailed his foster mom whether or not she can give me more info on his past bond or if he was ever affectionate towards her. Really nothing else is causing issues except this grooming. I have tried treats, it doesn't work :/ it's the weirdest thing EVER.... I posted a question regarding this on another bunny forum and I'll see but I'm honestly just thinking perhaps they're not a good match. It's really early to say, and maybe just maybe this will change but Phoenix is just a very affectionate bun that wants the affection returned. She is okay to compromise but when she doesn't get groomed, she just gets mad, I'm worried this will cause problems. I'm ending each session on a positive note though. Bllaaah bonding :/ Sorry for the rant!

 

[Imbrium]

sorry you're having so much trouble with the bonding... wish I knew of something that would help . Gaz grooms Nala regularly while Nala damn near never reciprocates... I often see Gaz lowering her head in front of Nala asking for grooming and I feel really bad for her because she always gets ignored. she doesn't get upset about it, though.

 

[Chrisdoc]

It´s difficult to know, some bunnies are just happy grooming and some want the favour returned. Mine have never got annoyed when they haven´t been groomed back but I suppose each have their character. Maybe she will learn to accept it, hopefully. Having buns that don´t get on is just such hard work but I won´t give up on them so keep positive and perservere.

 

[holtzchick]

Awh, it's okay guys. It really means more to me that you're still reading this blog! I feel bad because I've been neglecting reading/posting on any of your blogs!
I've been working crazy hours lately and when I'm at home, 100% devoted to the bunnies.

Tonight was a little weird. I decided to go back to the beginning and just stress them in one crate. It went well, she tried to nip him but this time, I had a spray bottle handy and that was the end of that. She even groomed him longer. Then I let them about the tub, he actually had the nerve to nip her hard, I figured I'd see where it takes them, but it got aggressive and even though I sprayed at them, I had to pull them apart and calm them down. I think I may just stick with using the crate for now since you can tell they are both VERY comfortable with each other, they groom themselves in each others presence but they will not for the life of me stop nipping... After I broke them up and calmed them down, they got into an almost chinning war with putting one head lower than the others' and were nose to nose as if to say "GROOM ME" ""NO YOU GROOM ME FIRST!!"" lol.... Time will tell... They enjoy the company of another rabbit you can tell, I just don't think they enjoy each other :/

 

[Chrisdoc]

Michelle, that sounds just like mine at the moment. I put them together, they circle and stand nose to nose and then they'll have a nip at each other and a jump. They then retire to opposite ends of the bath and start to groom themselves or just sit there really quiet. I really thought they sorted themselves yesterday as Houdini groomed Snowy but 10 minutes later they were nippy again. Heck, I just want mine back to normal.

Yours sound as though they're getting there, maybe they'll just grow into each other.

 

[holtzchick]

Awh Chris, that does sound a lot like yours at the moment! I don't think mine are getting "there" at all, if anything, it seems like they are more aggressive with each other than when I first introduced them. I'm being very negative about this at the moment and I think it's just stressing me out that the adoptions co-ordinator will not write me back regarding advice or more information. I realize they're busy, but it's not very difficult to answer an email.

 

[Chrisdoc]

Michelle, I think we are both going through similar experiences and just sometimes, you feel as though you can´t do it anymore but I know they can get on and they will again but I´m just not sure right now how to get to that point. I´d asked on my blog if it might be a good idea to take them with me this afternoon as i´m going up to my friend´s house for a couple of hours and then coming back down. Thought, maybe the ride there and back and a couple of hours in a strange environment with a dog may get things sorted but not I´m sure about it....the joys of owning these wonderful little creatures. :nod

 

[whitelop]

What are Phoenix and Hippogryff acting like when you put them back into their enclosures? Are they laying next to each other on their own sides?
Could you separate them completely, like into different rooms for a while. So they wont hold resentment towards each other. Is it to that point yet? I know bonding can be so difficult but as I've read, its totally worth the time and patience it takes.

 

[Imbrium]

since they've been fighting, it may indeed help to separate them into different rooms for 2-3 weeks to "reset" things. it's a long time to not be able to work with them, but if you're frustrated and feel like you're not making ANY progress, resetting them back to the beginning might be worth a try.

 

[Chrisdoc]

I agree, sometimes if you've lost the will to sort things out, take a break and then start again after a short while. Thinks that what I'm gonna do as I don't have the time to dedicate properly to this right now and it's frustrating me and probably upsetting them so I'll wait until I'm back home full time and start again. Worth thinking about.

 

[holtzchick]

I would first of like to say, Happy New Year to all on this forum!

I do have some bad news. This mornings session took a turn for the worst. I tried stress bonding them, and within the first minute, the were in a nipping war and already starting a fight. It is not an option for me to house them in different rooms since I live in a one bedroom but they actually are fine in their own cages side by side. They lay in proximity of each other and are comfortable with each other and grooming themselves in each others presence but I don't think these two are a good match for each other. They are both too dominant.

As said, I have wrote an email to the rescue asking them to take Hippogryff back since I am not hopeful for them at all. I am really sad to say that in the new year but at the same time, I cannot force anything and frankly I'm not experience enough with the distaste these two have for each other. I would like to try again with a new bun and possibly try again to persuade the foster home to allow me to introduce my girl to the new bunny first without making a commitment and I'm hoping I can find a submissive friendlier bun for Phoenix.

Ah, I feel upset at how things took a turn. It's funny because both bunnies want to bond, I can see that in their behaviors, they just aren't getting along with each other and can't establish top bun without getting into a full on fight. :/

 

[Chrisdoc]

Michelle, how sorry I am to hear that. You don't think there's any chance things might change ? I do know how you feel and it's really difficult when things aren't going as you want them to. However, if you feel in your heart that things aren't going to work out then you have to do what's best for both and particularly for Phoenix so hope everything works out and you can find your perfect partner for your little heart bun.

 

[holtzchick]

Honestly, if it was bad I wouldn't mind.
The thing that gives me doubt that it will work out is that they keep attacking each other when presenting for grooming, no other time.
On more than one website it says that if that is the case, it's better to keep looking for a different match as opposed to going through the stress to bond buns like that.
If they were aggressive through the bars or something I would understand, but it's weird. I just have a bad feeling about it and I'd feel really bad to have Hippo adjust to this home if it weren't to work out.

We're both going to miss him actually, I feel bad and I hope he will find his bondmate. He is sweet in his own way.

 

[whitelop]

I talked to Lisa and she said to let them sort it out on their own. She said that when you intervene with them and you're the one grooming Phoenix, it messes with things. So maybe let them go at it for a minute to see if they can sort it out on their own.
That being said, if you feel uncomfortable with them being together, and you feel like you have to swap him; that's totally up to you.
Good luck with all of it! And im sorry it isn't working out like planned!

 

[Ilovemyrabbit]

I'm sorry to have read this. If you do decide to get a new bunny than I agree it would be best to get the shelter to let Phoenix bunny date. And maybe Hippogrypph does still have a chance. Are you going to put them together for one more bunny session?

Good luck!

 

[holtzchick]

Awh, thanks for asking Lisa for me. I have allowed them a minute to sort it out and it almost turned into a full fledged fight. I had trouble pulling one off the other.
I also had a lady call me that raises angora's in the area. After I told her what I'd been doing and what had been happening, she told me to switch him out as well and actually said to consider maybe getting a female since they're more likely to groom, unless I get a male with a very very laid back personality like what Phoenix has.

I don't know, I feel like this came at me way too quickly. I'd read about it, but it was so different when it was right in front of me!

 

[holtzchick]

I'm sorry to have read this. If you do decide to get a new bunny than I agree it would be best to get the shelter to let Phoenix bunny date. And maybe Hippogrypph does still have a chance. Are you going to put them together for one more bunny session?

Good luck!

I will try tomorrow but today they barely lasted two minutes with the water spraying and the crate shaking and the vaccuum on. :/

My boyfriend is confused because they're laying near each other in their pen's all flopped out. I think their personalities are very different.

 

[Imbrium]

you've been trying really hard to make things work - you've certainly given it your best shot. sometimes it's just not meant to be, though. since you can't separate them fully for a few weeks to reset things and you feel rather hopeless about overcoming the grooming issues, trying a different bunny may very well be the best thing for all three of you.

contrary to what the breeder said, though, I'd recommend against another female - F/F bonds are just so tricky sometimes.