Rabbit Suddenly cannot walk

[GregH]

Hello-- this is my first post though Ive been reading on here for a while--and has helped me get through the loss of our first bun a few months ago

Im writing hoping for answers for my 6.5 year old dutch tortoise rabbit Sugar

Sugar has kidney disease as confirmed by her blood tests-- she has lost some weight and lots of muscle

also she has splayed legs and has had them ( the front two and a mild case) since we got her a few months back

tonight suddenly we noticed she could no longer use her back legs-- she is standing up and then just falling over-- and now she is dragging herself along the floor..

Im not sure if this is related to the kidney disease, splayed legs, an injury we didnt see, a parasite or what

does anyone have any ideas?

thank you

--Greg

 

[fannymanson]

Aww poor Sugar! I don't know what is happening to her, but hopefully it's only temporary and you find a solution for her. Good luck!

:bunny5

 

[JBun]

It's possible the splay leg is affecting her spine and has put pressure on it causing the paralysis. Also due to your rabbit being older, it's possible she has developed spondylosis. It's likely you will need xrays and other testing to determine if either of these is the cause.
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/paresis.html
Another common cause of hind limb paralysis in rabbits is the microsporidian parasite e. cuniculi. It affects a rabbits different organs, including the brain and CNS, which can result in paralysis. It can also affect a rabbits kidneys causing renal failure. With your rabbit having kidney disease, this may be a possible cause if your vet hasn't already ruled it out. A blood titer can be done to determine if your bun has been exposed to this parasite. Treatment may help decrease or sometimes even reverse symptoms, but it really depends on how much cell damage has occurred.
http://www.gwexotics.com/wccms-resources/a/5/0/e/77554b90-a660-11e0-a685-0050568626ea.pdf

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/paresis.html
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?A=490

I'm so sorry this has happened to your bun and hope your vet is able to figure out what is going on.

 

[GregH]

So following Sugar not being able to walk I took her to the vet

Vet said the following ( paraphrased )

"could be injury or blood-clot-- I suggest putting her down right away-- here is pain medicine in the meantime-- please don't make her suffer -- also you should not give her IV fluids because it will increase weight on her back"

being stubborn I went home and checked to see if she had the 3 A's

Attitude
Affection
Appetite

She had all three

the following day she was back on her feet hopping again-- all be it not very well-- but she was hopping again

but a new problem was arising- she has lost most of her appetite

she is nippling on greens, and treats, all though no hay and not touching water

we decided to give her 1/2 dose of IV fluids anyway and continue pain medication and give massages to encourage blood flow( dr. also said do this)

but where Im at right now is she is up and hopping
but her appetite is down

I have a vet appointment today

Im sure the vet will again say to put her down

ADVICE FROM YOU GUYS

how do you KNOW its the right time to put her down... i was thinking it was all over yesterday and lo and behold she can hop again

today she isnt eating-- but should I try syringe feedings to get critical care in her belly and see if that sparks it back along with fluids pain meds and massages???

I feel like the vet is telling to give up too soon

Advice??

 

[JBun]

Did you see that this was caused be an injury, or did the vet take any xrays to confirm an injury to the spine is the cause of the weakness/paralysis?

If thee is no indication this is caused by an injury, as I mentioned above, a common cause for paralysis in rabbits is the parasite e. cuniculi. And when a definitive diagnosis of injury as the cause isn't made, it is a good idea to treat for EC just in case. Most good rabbit vets will do this.

Honestly your vet doesn't sound very rabbit savvy to me. Paralysis isn't necessarily a death sentence, and may even be reversible if the correct diagnosis and treatment is done. If a confirmed injury, a good rabbit vet would attempt several days of steroid injections to attempt to bring down any swelling and reduce chances of damage done by the inflammation, and see if this helps restore mobility. If an injury isn't confirmed, either from you seeing it happen or from xrays, then it is good to treat for EC with Panacur(fenbendazole) and Metacam, and sometimes antibiotics. With your rabbit also having signs of weight loss, this can also be a sign of EC if it can't be attributed to something else. Fluids should also be a routine thing a good vet will do if the rabbit is dehydrated.

Yes, you should be syringe feeding the Critical Care food mix if she isn't eating well on her own, along with fluids if she isn't drinking well either. This needs to be done throughout the day, every 3-4 hours. It is important to keep her fed, to keep her strength and weight up, or she could very well just starve, and this is preventable with syringe feedings.

Like I said, this isn't a death sentence, and I wouldn't necessarily trust a vet that immediately jumps to this conclusion, unless the rabbit in question were in obvious pain and suffering. But from your description it doesn't sound like this is the case. And even if the damage were to be permanent it still isn't a death sentence if the rabbit is coping well with the disability, and if you are able to offer her the care that would be needed. There are buns here on RO that have paralysis and are doing just fine with the dedicated care of their owners. If you can, it may be worth trying to find a better rabbit vet.
http://rabbit.org/vet-listings/
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/forumdisplay.php?f=21

 

[GregH]

Did you see that this was caused be an injury, or did the vet take any xrays to confirm an injury to the spine is the cause of the weakness/paralysis?

If thee is no indication this is caused by an injury, as I mentioned above, a common cause for paralysis in rabbits is the parasite e. cuniculi. And when a definitive diagnosis of injury as the cause isn't made, it is a good idea to treat for EC just in case. Most good rabbit vets will do this.

Honestly your vet doesn't sound very rabbit savvy to me. Paralysis isn't necessarily a death sentence, and may even be reversible if the correct diagnosis and treatment is done. If a confirmed injury, a good rabbit vet would attempt several days of steroid injections to attempt to bring down any swelling and reduce chances of damage done by the inflammation, and see if this helps restore mobility. If an injury isn't confirmed, either from you seeing it happen or from xrays, then it is good to treat for EC with Panacur(fenbendazole) and Metacam, and sometimes antibiotics. With your rabbit also having signs of weight loss, this can also be a sign of EC if it can't be attributed to something else. Fluids should also be a routine thing a good vet will do if the rabbit is dehydrated.

Yes, you should be syringe feeding the Critical Care food mix if she isn't eating well on her own, along with fluids if she isn't drinking well either. This needs to be done throughout the day, every 3-4 hours. It is important to keep her fed, to keep her strength and weight up, or she could very well just starve, and this is preventable with syringe feedings.

Like I said, this isn't a death sentence, and I wouldn't necessarily trust a vet that immediately jumps to this conclusion, unless the rabbit in question were in obvious pain and suffering. But from your description it doesn't sound like this is the case. And even if the damage were to be permanent it still isn't a death sentence if the rabbit is coping well with the disability, and if you are able to offer her the care that would be needed. There are buns here on RO that have paralysis and are doing just fine with the dedicated care of their owners. If you can, it may be worth trying to find a better rabbit vet.
http://rabbit.org/vet-listings/
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/forumdisplay.php?f=21

Thanks for the fast reply

I asked about EC

I was told that its something that needs to be treated when they are born and is indicated by a white dot in their eye? something like that --but its not something that would be treated at Sugar's stage in life

Sugar has Kidney failure so Metacam , I was told, would kill her

The Vet said we could do X-rays but due to the fact that her kidneys are so bad, there isnt much we could do anyway

I'm going to the vet in 2 hours for a checkup- check her mouth, and a critical care feeding--

my guess is that Sugar slipped and fell and injured her back leg and with pain meds and rest she is doing better but her weakened body is taking time to recover and is now causing her lack of appetite

looks like critical care for sugar

also can you recommend Vita-Drops or not?

Thanks so much

--Greg

 

[JBun]

Thanks for the fast reply

I asked about EC

I was told that its something that needs to be treated when they are born and is indicated by a white dot in their eye? something like that --but its not something that would be treated at Sugar's stage in life

--Greg

This is certainly NOT the case. Yes it can be passed from their mom and they can be born with it. And sometimes it will manifest in EC associated uveitis which is formed in utero and manifests in the EC spores rupturing cells in the eye and causing inflammation. But a rabbit can just as easily pick up EC later in life, from the urine of an infected rabbit or other infected animal, and it can still be treated regardless of age. It has nothing to do with the age of the animal. An antiparasitic is given to disrupt the EC spores and inflammation caused by them. It doesn't matter what age a rabbit is for a medication to work correctly.

A while back there was a bun here on RO that developed hind limb paralysis. The rabbit continued to deteriorate and the vet just wanted to put the rabbit down, but the owner found out about EC and treated for it. The decline in the rabbits condition was halted with help from the medication, and the bun did regain some function, though there was some permanent damage done due to the inflammation of the EC spores. I believe this was an older bun, and when given the appropriate medication, it did help halt the progression of the illness.

EC can affect a rabbit in a variety of ways, not just through inflammation in their eye. It can affect the liver, kidneys resulting in renal failure and urinary problems, heart, lungs causing complications like pneumonia, brain and CNS. The brain and CNS are the most common symptoms noticed in a rabbit with EC. This can manifest in seizures, head tilt, paralysis, etc.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Signs/Cuniculi_signs.html
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/cuniculi/pyrimethamine.htm
And here is a more technical rabbit vet based link.
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Encephalitozoonosis.htm

Your vet is right about the metacam. It can be hard on the kidneys, so that has to be taken into consideration when deciding the risks/benefits of its use. You mention she's being given pain meds, which one in particular? Any anti inflammatories like a steroid injection? Anti inflammatories can be an important part of recovery for either EC or an injury.

With your vet not having this basic understanding of a very common ailment like EC in rabbits, just makes me further believe that they aren't very experienced with them. If at all possible it would be best to find a better rabbit vet.

Just my personal opinion, is that treating for EC with fenbendazole, most likely won't hurt anything, and might actually do some good. Just something to consider and discuss with your vet.

For the vita drops, they really aren't necessary. They are just a vitamin supplement, and if you are feeding Critical Care, this already contains added vitamins.

 

[stevesmum]

I am beginning to become a real skeptic when it comes to vets. But I can say this, your rabbit will let you know when she's had enough of suffering and that the time is coming to go. I think you will know when it feels like the right thing to do. Good luck and hugs. They are just never with us long enough.

 

[GregH]

This is certainly NOT the case. Yes it can be passed from their mom and they can be born with it. And sometimes it will manifest in EC associated uveitis which is formed in utero and manifests in the EC spores rupturing cells in the eye and causing inflammation. But a rabbit can just as easily pick up EC later in life, from the urine of an infected rabbit or other infected animal, and it can still be treated regardless of age. It has nothing to do with the age of the animal. An antiparasitic is given to disrupt the EC spores and inflammation caused by them. It doesn't matter what age a rabbit is for a medication to work correctly.

A while back there was a bun here on RO that developed hind limb paralysis. The rabbit continued to deteriorate and the vet just wanted to put the rabbit down, but the owner found out about EC and treated for it. The decline in the rabbits condition was halted with help from the medication, and the bun did regain some function, though there was some permanent damage done due to the inflammation of the EC spores. I believe this was an older bun, and when given the appropriate medication, it did help halt the progression of the illness.

EC can affect a rabbit in a variety of ways, not just through inflammation in their eye. It can affect the liver, kidneys resulting in renal failure and urinary problems, heart, lungs causing complications like pneumonia, brain and CNS. The brain and CNS are the most common symptoms noticed in a rabbit with EC. This can manifest in seizures, head tilt, paralysis, etc.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Signs/Cuniculi_signs.html
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/cuniculi/pyrimethamine.htm
And here is a more technical rabbit vet based link.
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Encephalitozoonosis.htm

Your vet is right about the metacam. It can be hard on the kidneys, so that has to be taken into consideration when deciding the risks/benefits of its use. You mention she's being given pain meds, which one in particular? Any anti inflammatories like a steroid injection? Anti inflammatories can be an important part of recovery for either EC or an injury.

With your vet not having this basic understanding of a very common ailment like EC in rabbits, just makes me further believe that they aren't very experienced with them. If at all possible it would be best to find a better rabbit vet.

Just my personal opinion, is that treating for EC with fenbendazole, most likely won't hurt anything, and might actually do some good. Just something to consider and discuss with your vet.

For the vita drops, they really aren't necessary. They are just a vitamin supplement, and if you are feeding Critical Care, this already contains added vitamins.

So an update on Sugar.. It's been the worst 2-3 weeks of ownership of her..

1) Im very intrigued by this EC thing... I think I might look further into it and ask my vet about it. Have you heard of any rabbits with renal failure making any type of recovery with EC treatment?

2) Sugar is back to hoping but her appetite is extremely down-- we had to take her for multiple critical care feedings at our vet ( she will NOT accept them at home no matter what me or my g/f do)-- so yes she has gotten a few feedings there and at home we are giving her IV fluids under the skin every 2-3 days because she isnt drinking much water

is this lack of appetite from the kidneys? I think it might be

3) I've been trying every veggie and fruit ( that rabbits can eat) I can think of for Sugar.... she nipples on her kale, carrot tops and fennel... no hay... no kibble... no other greens...but only sparingly.. her poops are small and slightly hard. but the thing is she begs for treats like nobody's business ( apple and banana)

4) Also she is accepting and giving love and affection--every night I spent an hour on the couch will her and ill rub her and massage her back muscles and belly to get the gas out and get blood moving to her back legs

she is very frail and thin... but in good spirits... she is eating snacks... a little reg food and loving attention and licking us like normal... she sleeps more than usual...

I just don't know if there is something MORE I can/should be doing for her...

any thoughts or ideas would be most appreciated

my g/f works 12 hour days so I feel like Im at this alone as most friends and family don't understand being obsessed with a rabbit ( vs a dog or cat)

 

[JBun]

If beginning signs of kidney issues are caught right away and it is due to EC, then treatment may correct the problem. But when it has gone on for several weeks/months, permanent damage will occur. Treatment may halt any more damage occurring, but it won't reverse the damage already done.

At this point you may just have to make life comfortable for your bun, for as long as it's possible, taking into consideration quality of life and if your bun is suffering at all. Some treatment options that may help a bun with kidney failure, are sub q injections, vit. b 12 injections(which may help the lack of appetite), and anabolic steroid injections.
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/ChronicRenalLagomorph.htm

At this point it will probably be managing her illness as best as you possibly can, for as long as she still seems well with in her self and isn't in distress or suffering. Nursing a chronically ill rabbit is not easy, and isn't something most people understand. You may be able to 'buy' a little extra time with her, with other treatment options and support, but unfortunately kidney failure isn't curable. I'm sorry this has happened to your poor bun. Hopefully your vet will be able to find a treatment to make your buns remaining time more comfortable for her.

 

[Maureen Las]

It is important to know the extent of the kidney damage. There is a difference between failure and damage. If her kidneys have actually failed that means that they are not working at all and are not filtering out waste products in urine. If kidneys don't work at all what does that mean? It means that all the waste products in the bloodstream and the body cannot be eliminated . The toxins build up in the bloodstream making the animal feel terrible and have no appetite or energy The IV fluids help flush out toxins by using a large volume of fluid to do what the kidneys cannot.
I would get a 2nd opinion or find out exactly the extent of the damage

Kidney FAILURE ( not damage) in a rabbit is a hopeless situation; we don't have dialysis for rabbits !