Possible Paralysis?

[Bill Jesse]

My 9 year old female Himalayan is having difficulty with her back right leg. She can move it but at times - on uneven ground and when walking - has a tendency to roll. She can get up most of the time except if she is on a hill. If she is running its not as bad although she does not run fast. I even wonder if its not arthritis as we live in a cool, damp climate this time of the year and she does go out almost every day.

When she was very young we thought she had EC because she wobbled and fell (although no head tilt) and seemed to be partly blind. We ran a 28 day course of Panacur and she has been okay although she still rolled but not as much. Now it is bad. I thought of another course of Panacur but at this point it may not be effective.
Otherwise she is fine, eats well and likes to destroy her indoor hutch at times.

 

[Popsicles]

EC can live dormant for many years and reappear when you least expect it, so it’s definitely a possibility, you could give another course of panacur to see if that helps, and it won’t do any harm if not. Arthritis isn’t uncommon, but would usually affect both back legs rather than just one, and you’d see more signs of pain than just falling over and rolling. Other causes of a loss of balance can be ear infections and central nervous system problems, it might be worth going to a vet Just to get checked properly.

 

[Bill Jesse]

Thank you. I did not think of an ear infection but she is not showing any sign of one. I have seen the symptoms before with another rabbit. I have decided to bring her and her mate into the house UFA. They are in a warm room but it is not heated.
I would like to agree with your suggestion regarding a vet. However there are no rabbit savvy vets in this town and frankly I do not trust them. As an example my young cat stopped eating moist food which he loves. He nibbled on kibble. I took him to a vet and they found nothing wrong but suggested a blood/urine panel which set me back $400. The results were fine. It must be teeth they said and scheduled an exploratory operation and took out 2 teeth. That was another $1700. The cat is still the same. Won't eat moist, just kibble. And if the teeth were bad why was easier to crunch kibble and not moist. I have always said one never makes one trip to a vet, there is always a comeback.
Sorry if I went off topic.

 

[Bill Jesse]

Just went back to my previous posts from May 2011 mentioning my concerns with Cassie's instability. I don't know if anyone can access them but I also commented at that time my feelings about vets.

 

[Popsicles]

It’s a shame you’ve had that experience with vets, it seems you’ve been unlucky. I can understand your reservations, i hope you can find a more rabbit savvy vet, but I know that’s difficult. Try the panacur, if you want to put off going to a vet for now, if that doesn’t work then you will need to have more tests, hopefully someone on here can suggest a good vet in your area.
On a side note, not all vets are just trying to get your money, many will actively try and help save your money, and most go into the profession because they care about your animals, please don’t have too negative a view of the whole profession based on a few individuals not giving the best impression.

 

[Bill Jesse]

I agree. I have had animals all my life and have been to most pet clinics. Many say they know rabbits but ask them what EC is and they have no clue. As to costs I mentioned what I paid for the blood/urine panel and when I went to a new vet she told me they charge $250.
When I had Panacur the vet had it in stock and it cost me $25. A few years back I had to have it compounded and the price had shot up to $90. Its not a money thing, its the results I want and I know that health care can be a guessing game.
Anyway the rabbits live in an outdoor barn and spend nights or bad weather days inside. It never gets too cold here and the barn is not heated. Last night I brought them both into the house but feel they are more comfortable in the barn. I just saw them now and both were waiting for food. Cassie is a strong-willed bunny and used to rolling but I could see her getting frustrated the last few times.

 

[Popsicles]

Yeah it’s difficult, prices aren’t fixed as it depends on so many factors within that clinic, so it can be useful to shop around as you have been now. I’m glad they’re more comfortable now they are indoors. If it was me I would treat her (or both of them) with a course of panacur just to be safe, and if you suspect it could be pain related you might be able to ask your vet for somebody metacam, to see if that helps. If all else fails I’d take her to a vet, but I know you’re not keen on that. Do keep us updated!

 

[Bill Jesse]

I called a vet I used some years ago for another rabbit and he said he would call me back. Not yet.

 

[JBun]

It's possible that it could be EC, but at that age spinal and joint issues, and arthritis are quite common, and I would be more inclined to think one of those is the cause over the EC. If so, things like daily meloxicam, glucosamine, or adequan injections might all prove helpful, depending on the exact cause. My old bun had problems with her hind legs at that age, and while it couldn't be fixed, daily meloxicam helped her be more comfortable. There is also another member that had an older bun with arthritis and he said adequan injections really helped his bun maintain her mobility.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Bone_diseases/Osteo/arthritis.htm

If you are going to try the panacur and don't have any on hand, you may be able to buy an equivalent to it otc. Here in the US we can get safeguard goat deworrmer otc, which is essentially the same thing as panacur. Also if you decide to go the route of meloxicam, buying online as opposed to the vet office, is likely to be much cheaper.

 

[Bill Jesse]

Thank you for being positive. I am hoping it might be joint issues. However she has always been wobbly and sometimes fell. But its more apparent now.
A vet was going to call me back but so far hasn't. I made 2 appointments with what I understand from other rabbit owners, specialize in rabbits. Unfortunately its a much longer drive that I want to make. And they are not until 2/3 days from now.
I don't know if I can get bunny meds sent here. I do know that at Tractor Supply in Texas I was able to get a pint size bottle of PenG for $29. Up here a series of 1 ml shots cost me $40.
I don't know if Cassie is in pain at all. She eats readily and just now I offered her some hay from my hand and she grabbed it. She has plenty in her hay box. And she is moving about because each time I go into the room she is somewhere else. I think bringing her indoors instead of being in her bunny barn may have helped. It is quite damp outside. She and Jerome are in the basement bathroom (no heat but warm) and the only problem is one of my old cats likes to go in there to sit on the window sill. Now she is angry because she can't.

 

[JBun]

It could be a genetic joint issue, that is just getting worse now that she is getting old. Which may mean there is no fix for it and may just be something you have to manage as much as possible.

Warmth and less damp may help. Certainly won't hurt to try it out as long as it doesn't stress them too much... and if you can get your cat to put up with the territory takeover

 

[Bill Jesse]

I believe they have adapted to being inside. Their outdoor hutch is in a large shed and although not heated it is also not insulated. Temperatures this week have been 40-50F but it is damp. The bottom of the hutch is covered with newspaper and plenty of hay which gets replaced each day so it is dry.
My old cat is very vocal and howls like she is being tortured. Obviously she is not allowed in the room at the moment but howls outside the door. I think (hope) they are used to her because the cat comes with me in late evening when I feed the bunnies and if she loses sight of me she howls.
Anyway I just checked on them and Cassie was sitting with her front paws over the front of the hay box chewing away. And tomorrow I was able to get a morning visit with a holistic vet who is one who loves animals more than money. I used him once before with another wobbly rabbit and he had a series of interesting tests he gave her.
We will see.

 

[Bill Jesse]

Was able to get 2 opinions today. The first is a vet I have used years ago and is more into love and care than money. The second is part of a large animal hospital. The results are below.

First vet checked her top to bottom. Teeth are fine, ears are clear and her vitals are good. He palpitated her hips and right away noticed she has a neurological problem. Her brain is not connected to her foot and can’t relay messages. Hence her foot won’t always work.
He showed me how to get her foot moving and that would stimulate the brain connection. It seems logical. He did not think arthritis and was not concerned about the dampness. He thought she could go back to her outdoor hutch in the barn if she is more comfortable there. She is.
The second vet did all the same tests and figured that Cassie was having what the other vet thought. Then she thought about the ears. Took a swab of both and the right had a very tiny amount of yeast. She checked the teeth and found the start of spurs albeit very mild. She suggested an x-ray to check for arthritis but she was not convinced there was any. If the teeth spurs got bigger she would have to grind them.
She recommended the Metacam daily for a month and tried to sell me a tiny bottle of Baytril Otic at $80 for the ears. I said no to that so she told me I could buy a human version over the counter at the pharmacy. She suggested I keep Cassie in for a few days to see if the Metacam works but otherwise she could go out to the hutch.
There you have two opinions. There was no upsell at the first vet and the second one tried a bit but realized I was not biting. Who is right and who is wrong. We will see.
Incidentally I found the Baytril Otic on line at $30 but I would need a prescription.
Thanks to all for the concern.

 

[Popsicles]

It’s not so much about upsell, they really don’t make much profit from medicines - online wholesalers are able to sell cheaper as they can buy and stock in bulk.
Sounds good you are starting on metacam and I hope it helps a bit! Please keep us updated!

 

[ShadowRunner]

My Clover also had EC but her one back leg still bother her by not moving the way she used to. We give her rhus toxicodendron in the winter because the cold seem to aggravate it. She is 13Lbs so she gets 1 tab in the am and one in the pm.

We have also used Arnica montana which is an anti inflamitory.
These are homopathic and I have a friend who uses it with her dogs so I gave it a try it seems to help her.

Good Luck

 

[Bill Jesse]

Cassie has neurological problems. Perhaps from the EC. Her right rear leg moves and is strong but the connection to the brain is not there. I have her indoors on a carpet in my office and she gets around okay but does roll over. But she gets up pretty quickly. However in her night hutch the floor is newspaper covered with hay and if she rolls she cannot get traction to get up. I need something other than the hay but here is the problem. She no longer uses her litter box and anything she does goes onto the hay/newspaper. Or like now the carpet in my room.
Otherwise she is great. Eats and drinks and steals her buddy's food.
Going back to my vet rant. I decided to buy the Baytril just in case although she is not scratching much at all. Went to the vet and bought the bottle at $83 and noticed the hospital label had a best before date (November 2018) scratched out with a pen. I gingerly removed that label and there was no label on the bottle. It had been peeled off and it was not on the inside of the hospital label. How did I know what I was getting? I asked for another bottle but they said this bottle was their last. Fishy? Maybe yes and possibly no. But when I want a medicine for my animals I want something with a label on it. Perhaps all was fine and maybe I am just skeptical. They are supposed to get me another bottle and I am hoping they can deliver it. Its a one hour round trip from home to the clinic.