Possible GI Stasis? He's lying down and not eating but he is drinking

[Liung]

So I went in to give my bunnies food as I always do, and Delilah immediately ran up to hover over me and demand I pour faster, and Lahi... didn't. He wouldn't move, wasn't interested in the food at all, and kept lying down.

I offered him oat groat, he took roughly half a mouthful... and refused any more. That's when I knew something was definitely up.

Let me elaborate: I get my bunny food from a feed mill. The guy there first gave me a bag of oat groat to try, and referred to it as "bunny crack", and told me to be careful to give them no more than one teaspoon a day so as to prevent extreme weight gain. They are literally crazy over it, and usually do a really comical face dive into the spoon as they try to stuff as much in their mouths as possible, and then do little vacuum impressions for any grains that fell on the floor. I've been making sure Lahi gets a teaspoonful nearly every day, because he's still underweight from his antibiotic shots earlier in the year.

So anyway, I took him for some cleaning (he's having trouble cleaning his nether regions) and spent some time snipping away at some of the fur that was getting matted and the gunk stuck to it, and then let him go, fully expecting him to immediately go into indignant grooming... and he didn't. I'd brought him upstairs, which would usually prompt a round of thoroughly exploring the area, with attempts to go investigate the space under the couch... and he didn't even move from the couch.

Lahi doesn't like being touched. He's not afraid of humans, he'll happily explore and sniff and prod them, but usually the moment one touches him (with the sole exception of my mom, whom he adores) he'll usually leave. Won't put up with petting unless he's being fed simultaneously, and still makes it clear that the only reason he's allowing it is because the food is more important.

But I rubbed his face and stroked his back and still no moving away. No offended grooming. In fact he hunkered down so he wasn't standing anymore, front paws not taking any weight and haunches (knees?) sticking up as he sunk his body down. I rested my hand on his back to see how long it would take him to move out from under it... and I fell asleep waiting. (It's really late okay I'd been planning to feed them and then go to bed. I'm so tired.) I woke up some time later when he did finally hop off the couch, but still. Super weird.

So I brought him back downstairs and let him go to see what he would do (cuddle with Delilah?? Groom vigorously after all that unwanted touching?) He went straight into his cage (it's a 1'x2' cage within a 4'x8' enclosure that generally stays open) and lay down in his litter box. He hunkered down again, then lay right out, then eventually got out and went into the box attached to the cage. I finished putting out the food meanwhile, and he still wasn't interested.

So he was back in the litterbox, and he made a few half-hearted moves toward the water bottle. He'd move as if he was going to drink, but once his mouth touched it, he'd stop and then withdraw. He did this about three times in a row. The water level was rather low, so I grabbed it to refill it (gotta do something right?). He made an interested move at it as I was moving it, so when I took it off I reached around and offered it to him... and he drank some! It was like he would only drink if he didn't have to move his head at all.

So I poked and prodded and tried to get him to move and nudged Delilah into the cage to see if she'd cuddle him (she wouldn't) and thought I saw him stagger when he moved between his box and his litter so I shooed him out to see him move and no matter what he would only move a little and then either hunch down or lie straight out.

That's the other odd thing: he almost never lies straight out. And when he does, he lies completely out, head resting on the floor and everything. He's not doing that, he's just lying down with his head still up. Delilah lies like that all the time

How he normally lies down:

How he's currently lying down:

More usually, he relaxes in the typical bunny ball pose:

But I've never seen him hunch like this. He just sinks down so his knees stick out. It reminds me of how lions sit.

Just like that.

So anyway I did some google-fu and it all pretty much matches GI stasis symptoms, I don't have mashed food or any fresh fruit or veggies really, so I tried the massage. I didn't feel any particular hardness, but his stomach wasn't exactly squishy and soft either. The one article I read suggested massaging down to try and encourage gas to move along, and as I did that I heard (and felt under my fingers) a gurgle near his side, but no more than that. He stopped being cooperative at that point, and also stopped tolerating me touching him quite so much. This was slightly more lively than before, so I put him down. He ran back into the enclosure, hopped directly back into his cage and immediately went back into his box where he's lying down.

As I was writing this he got out and drank some more water, which is super encouraging.

This started around midnight. It's now 5 in the morning and I'm literally crying from exhaustion alone, nevermind how stressed out and scared I am. I'm going to keep trying to encourage him to eat and drink, if he still won't eat by the time the vet's office opens at 8 then I'll bring him in. I don't want to bring him into the emergency clinic (no small part because they'd charge me $165 just to look at him, my vet might give me a frequent customer discount and only charge me $40).

I'm going to try and get him to eat and drink again, then go to sleep on the couch until about 7. I can't function right now and my fiance is literally forbidding me from driving to the vets office if I don't get some sleep. I really will fall asleep while driving if I'm too tired.

I'm not exactly asking for advice, my google blitz all seemed to agree on what to do--keep trying to make them eat and drink, massage, vet ASAP--but some moral support would be welcomed with open arms, and I found earlier in the year that keeping a written record of things as they happened was super useful, and I wished more people had detailed their experiences to compare.

(http://www.rabbitsonline.net/showthread.php?t=79227&page=4)
My poor little man had a new health problem on the second week of every month from January until May, and I thought we were done with May's problem of laboured-sounding breathing that turned out to actually be snoring. My vet is literally giving me pity discounts. I can't handle all this stress, since Lahi's sister passed away last August I've been living in paranoia over Lahi's health, but you know the saying "It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you"? So far my paranoia has only been unjustified once, and I wasn't wrong about his breathing being unusual, only that it wasn't actually a problem.

 

[Azerane]

Poor Lahi, sounds like he's been through a lot. It does seem to me like he may be going through a bit of stasis. The times that Bandit has had an upset stomach, he will either lie down in his litterbox (which he never does otherwise) or in that long pose with his tummy pressed to the floor. I tend to give a gentle massage, preventative simethicone and shove food at his face until he stops refusing it, even if it's just a nibble

It might only be a passing thing, but if he's still not looking good by the time the vet opens, it's worth taking him in just in case I think. I get paranoid about Bandit too, he ate some sticky tape about a month ago which caused a very stressful/worried 8 hours or so

 

[Liung]

6:00 am, he ate a bite and a half of oat groat, and suddenly his stomach started gurgling so loud I could hear it across the room. I massaged his stomach and found that I could feel a few bumps I don't think I could before. He really hates the gurgling too: one particularly loud gurgle he actually jumped, though whether because it surprised him or its loud I can't tell. His whole stomach ripples as it happens. I hauled him out of his cage to massage more, and now most of his upper abdomen below his ribcage feels bumpy. If I had to describe it I would say it feels like his stomach is stuffed full of poo and I can feel the poo balls under his skin as I rub my fingers down his tummy. He's nibbling on food now rather than turning his nose up at it, but he isn't actually eating any of it, just taking a bite and then dropping it.

Also, wonder of wonders, he groomed for an entire second! This is progress.

Also I called up my sister, who is very knowledgeable about horsey stuff. Rabbits are actually pretty closely related to horses, and as it turns out GI stasis in rabbits is nearly identical to colic in horses (though horses usually colic from a twist in their intestine rather than gas, and if they have a blockage it's generally not due to fur). She says the gurgling is a good sign (it was a change in condition but for all I know it's a turn for the worse), but he's not out of the woods until I see poo!

Primarily he seems to be trembling with weakness, but at the same time he's a lot more energetic. He's started pushing my hands away, and being snippy about having food shoved in his face rather than just passively tolerating everything.

Fingers crossed the good news keeps coming!

 

[Liung]

NEVER BEEN SO HAPPY TO SEE POO IN MY LIFE


His stomach is still gurgling, and though I still feel bumps I don't feel as many. They seem to have moved down.

Damn the gurgling delayed my nap and now that I feel like I'm definitely helping him zero sleep will be had today.

Meanwhile poor Delilah is just 500% done with me coming in and out all night and not even stopping once to give her the praise and adoration she is due. She's just watching me go by then falling back asleep.

 

[Liung]

His stomach is still gurgling like mad but he just walked over to the food dish and started eating.

*sags in relief*

Excuse me while I go pass out for an hour. I'll check his progress at 8 and ask my vet if he should still be brought in, but it's looking likely that we're gonna be okay.

 

[JBun]

You need to stop feeding the oats. Gurgling is not a good sign in rabbits. The gurgling is an indication of bacterial imbalance and/or gas and giving more oats and carbs is only going to make it worse. The trembling is likely due to pain and if he is still trembling and having problems eating/pooping, you need to get him to the vet for pain meds and other medication to get him better.

You will need to also work on correcting the bacterial balance in his digestion and get the gurgling to stop. This is best accomplished by stopping all sugary starchy treats(like the oats) and usually also pellets, and feeding hay only, if he is used to hay and is a good hay eater. Feeding only grass hay helps to restore the microflora balance in a rabbits digestion, which is very important for a rabbit staying healthy and avoiding these types of digestive troubles. When feeding hay only, you need to keep a very close eye on your buns eating. You need to make sure that he is eating enough hay and eating it really well. Once his digestion is back to normal and the gurgling has stopped, you can gradually reintroduce pellets, but if you don't want this happening again, you need to stop feeding the oats and too many other starchy treats.

http://rabbit.org/sluggish-motility-in-the-gastrointestinal-tract-2/
http://rabbit.org/disorders-of-the-cecum/

 

[Liung]

Right so I just got back from the vet, and he was very impressed with how I managed... He gave Lahi a thorough go over, didn't feel any blockages or hair balls, his breathing was clear and his stomach wasn't gurgling anymore. The bumps I'd felt are now only in a small line along the centre of his tummy.

In other words, things are looking good. The small catch: he hasn't eaten much food since, and he's only pooed once more, and it was just as soft as the one in the picture but without even the few formed drops, it was completely shapeless.

So, he could be in the early stages of a kind of diahrea (sp?) (didn't catch the kind he said, started with "ana"), so I'm to continue taking pictures of his poo and if it's still wet come Monday (the clinic is closed Sunday) then we're putting him on antibiotics ("AGAIN?!" Lahi didn't say in horror)

As to the thing about the oats, I mentioned it while I was there, and the vet said that it's unlikely given that I'm careful never to give him too much. I feed it to him with a teensy baby spoon, and he rarely gets more than one a day, or even every day. I was mentioning it a lot today because the fact that he loves it and usually scarfs it down makes his refusal to touch it more significant. Essentially I was using it as a measure of how he was feeling, same as laying my hand on him to see how long he'd let me keep it there. We're cutting it from his diet until he's back to normal just in case, though.

He has been eating less and less hay as he ages, though. A few years back when it was just Lahi and Picca, they would go through a huge bag of hay in a month or two. When I got Delilah that didn't increase much, she doesn't eat much hay, and in fact seemed to decrease as Lahi and Picca started eating less. All his appetite dropped after she passed away, which is understandable, but he still doesn't eat much. If I hand him some hay strands one at a time he'll usually eat them, and I'll sometimes amuse myself trying to get him and Delilah to reenact the Bella Noche scene from Lady and the Tramp... But for the most part he and Delilah both eat very little hay (as compared to how much Lahi and Picca used to eat).

So I'm gonna try soaking his hay, maybe... Wet his food a little... Grab some other varieties of hay to see if his favourite has changed.

That's all I got for now

 

[JBun]

If he's still not eating well, it would be because something is causing him pain and discomfort still. Did the vet give you any pain meds? Did the vet check his teeth? He may not be eating well and having problems eating hay because of dental problems. If you have critical care mix you could see if he'll eat some of that, or soak some of his pellets in warm water and see if he'll eat the soft mush.

Did the vet do a fecal test to make sure that parasites/bacteria aren't causing the mushy poop and his current lack of appetite? Mushy poop can be due to too many sugars and carbs in a rabbits diet, causing a micorflora imbalance in the cecum, but harmful bacteria and coccidia can also cause this to occur, and both of these are extremely serious conditions and need immediate treatment. If he does develop watery diarrhea, you need to get him back to the vet immediately.
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/poop.html

Even though some rabbits can tolerate a small amount of oats and not have any issues, for other rabbits it can cause significant problems. It's good that you are cutting it out of his diet until you figure out the cause for his current problem.

 

[Azerane]

I'm glad he's started pooping, I hope that he continues to improve. I don't have much else to add, but I was going to suggest that perhaps trying some different types of hay might encourage them to eat more? What measure of pellets do they get in a day?

 

[lovelops]

My 13 pound giant's stomach gurgles all the time. When I took her to the vet he said it was normal digestion with her...

I guess everyone is different...


Vanessa

 

[Liung]

So Lahi's doing great. His poo on Sunday was unusually small and misshapen, but it was there and there was a fair amount of it. By Monday it was completely back to normal, so I didn't end up bringing him to the vet to check for diarrhea. I'm continuing to take pictures of it every day though, just to keep a record.

Honestly I think part of his problem was that after he finished with his antibiotic treatment for his retrobulbar abscess, he was getting severely underweight, so I was basically giving him free access to pellets in an attempt to bring it back up. As a result, his hay intake suffered immensely. His weight is back up, it's not quite the 5 lbs it was before this terrible year started but it's not urgent anymore.

So: he's now getting a small handful of pellets, more hay than he knows what to do with, and lots of fresh veggies (brought in slowly of course, so as not to shock his system). I'm following this guide (http://bunniesbunnycottage.blogspot.ca/2014/08/gi-gastrointesinal-stasis.html) for what veggies are the best right now, and so far I'm giving him every day 1/8 cup of basil (he hates mint, nearly fell over recoiling in disgust when I offered it to him) and 1/2 cup of nappa cabbage and bok choy (chosen for availability and the fact that my family will eat them too). He ate half of it on Monday, and nearly all of it yesterday (Tuesday). Delilah is also getting the same amount, and I cut her pellets in half too. She practically licks the veggie bowl clean, which is nothing unusual for my little piggy, but I have noticed her hay intake has increased slightly (as well as level of destruction... sigh).

I also have a pineapple sitting in my fridge waiting to be tried, but to be quite honest I have no idea how to cut it up. I'm not going to be giving him fruit juice (not just because I don't have a juicer). His water intake (thankgod) doesn't need any help. Pineapple juice is reputed to be good for their gut, which is according to my vet a myth. However the actual pineapple fruit itself is very fibrous, which is good.


@lovelops, the things you look for is things not normal for your bun, right? The things Lahi was doing wouldn't have put up any flags if it were Delilah doing them, as it's totally normal for her to sprawl everywhere, not care if people are touching her, and so on. The refusing to eat, though, would have been an even bigger flag for her than it was for him, because I've literally said "the day Delilah refuses food is the day I rush her to the vet". For Lahi, refusing to eat was a medium-ish flag, while the laying down and tolerance of touch raised the flag the rest of the way.

 

[lovelops]

Yes, you are right. The things I look for is things not normal for my guys! Each of my now 5 bunnies are different so I've got to know if Brooke doesn't come running to me when I walk to her Xpen on the porch with treats, she is sick. If she refuses any type of food for more than 4 minutes, she is sick. Lady is totally different from Brooke so I agree with you with what you are saying about if the things one was doing wouldn't have put up any flags if it was the other... So I'm with you. Delilah and Brooke are the same. The day she refuses food it's emergency vet time and that is exactly what I did with her the first time she came down with GI Statis.

Vanessa

 

[Liung]

I have learned how to prepare a pineapple.

Sometimes I just look at a food and wonder what on earth possessed someone to stick such a thing in their mouths in order to discover that it was edible.

Avocados are one of those foods. Pineapples are now another.

But Lahi seems to love it so looks like I've condemned myself to slimy fingers and cutting up what is possibly one of the most malevolent-looking fruits I've ever had the misfortune to prepare for the foreseeable future.

Like seriously even after you cut the skin off it still keeps its spines if you don't cut a huge amount of the fruit off with it. And it's slimy and stringy and awful and someone at some point thought that it would be a great idea to eat it without any prior knowledge of what it would taste like.