Last night Zero was fine when I put him in bed, this morning his entire abdomen is gassy and he seems bloated. He is still looking for food and moving around a lot. He's even binkied a few times between begging for more food. Zero ate lots of Timothy through the night so it's either critical care or benebac gel.
Picking up problems
- Thread starter Zeroshero
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Are you going to try to stop the benebac and/or critical care to see if it makes a difference? Just curious why you think it's the benebac or CC, and not the timothy hay? You may want to feed him just one type of hay during that time, if you do stop those two things, so that if he still gets gassy, then you will know that type of hay also causes problems for him, and can try a different type after that. I just can't believe how sensitive this little guy is.
If you decide to try oat hay later on, it's ok, but you would really need to make sure there are no seed heads in it, as that would probably be way too many carbs and may cause problems for the little guy. Oat straw is usually different than oat hay, as the straw is usually what is left after the oats are harvested, and oat hay may have the grain in it, depending on how early it is cut and baled. So, oat straw would probably be fine, or oat hay without the grain in it, but I would think that you would want to introduce it very gradually, to make sure there wasn't any sort of digestive problem with it.
If you decide to try oat hay later on, it's ok, but you would really need to make sure there are no seed heads in it, as that would probably be way too many carbs and may cause problems for the little guy. Oat straw is usually different than oat hay, as the straw is usually what is left after the oats are harvested, and oat hay may have the grain in it, depending on how early it is cut and baled. So, oat straw would probably be fine, or oat hay without the grain in it, but I would think that you would want to introduce it very gradually, to make sure there wasn't any sort of digestive problem with it.
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I have slightly suspected it might be Timothy hay, but it really is the only hay he has eats in large quantities. I have always offered him orchard grass in addition but he really doesn't touch it. He was fine yesterday evening, the only thing different was I gave him benebac gel. He is on 1/2 gram every other day. What else is there if he can't eat hay? 
Oh, I'm not saying it's the hay. I was just wondering why you thought it wasn't. There are always other varieties of hay you can try if those two types do cause gas problems with him. There's also the possibility that greener finer hay may cause more of a problem for him, then a less rich more fiberous hay. It was a post on another forum that made me wonder if maybe that might be an issue, because of this one rabbit that had this problem with it's hay.
But usually it seems to be the things with sugars in it that cause the most issues with rabbits, so it very well could be the CC and benebac. You can really only know for sure by eliminating those things and just feeding one thing, like one type of hay. If it is one of those things, then he won't be gassy once you eliminate them, and he is just eating his one kind of hay. One thing that may kind of mess up this experiment though, would be the meds that he's also getting right now. Before this latest bout with problems, hadn't you stopped his CC for the day? Were you only feeding hay, or was he also getting benebac or his hydropet?
I don't know that a rabbit can really over eat grass hay, as it takes them so long to eat enough of it. I think you would need to narrow down that it is the hay causing the problem. You would first want to make sure it isn't the CC or the benebac?
But usually it seems to be the things with sugars in it that cause the most issues with rabbits, so it very well could be the CC and benebac. You can really only know for sure by eliminating those things and just feeding one thing, like one type of hay. If it is one of those things, then he won't be gassy once you eliminate them, and he is just eating his one kind of hay. One thing that may kind of mess up this experiment though, would be the meds that he's also getting right now. Before this latest bout with problems, hadn't you stopped his CC for the day? Were you only feeding hay, or was he also getting benebac or his hydropet?
I don't know that a rabbit can really over eat grass hay, as it takes them so long to eat enough of it. I think you would need to narrow down that it is the hay causing the problem. You would first want to make sure it isn't the CC or the benebac?
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I had stopped the critical care for two days before his last bout when he totally went down. During that time he was getting Hydropet and Benebac. I did consider the sugars in the suspensions If Zero was my horse I would take him off all supplements and feed only hay, but it is scary not knowing what caused the stasis to begin with. Was it stopping the Critical Care or continuing the Hydropet/Benebac? I have been giving him Benebac every other day since he started eating solids could it be that he is getting too much?
After Zeus had his stasis problems, I was feeding him probiotics regularly. Though at first I thought that it did help to get his poop more normal looking, later on he was still having his irregular megacolon poop and it just wasn't getting any better and he was even having some soft poop, so I decided to stop the probiotics, and his poops look a lot better now. Not so irregular shaped, and they look much more normal looking. So, though at first the probiotics did help some, I feel that continuing to give it to him, and the sugars that are added to it, just made the digestive problems continue to some extent, as evident in his odd poop. So now Zeus has no regular supplements or meds. He only gets timothy hay, a little alfalfa, and green leaf lettuce, and he has done well on that. I never feed him anything with sugar anymore. If I had to give him meds, I guess I might have to. But since stopping the probiotics, he hasn't had to have anymore meds. I haven't even seen any soft poops for a while either, and he was having a few when I would first let him out to play.
I of course can't say for sure, but it sounds to me like this last stasis bout may have had to do with the hydropet and maybe the benebac, and not due to the fact that you stopped the critical care and that he was only eating hay. You know for sure that he got severly bloated the other day, from the hydropet, and with him having it at the time of getting stasis, it seems to be the most likely culprit, with the benebac being a possibility, and maybe the CC, since he is still getting a little bloated after stopping the hydropet. You'll really only be able to know for sure by stopping it. It doesn't seem to me that he is getting bloated because of an imbalance of gut bacteria or you would be seeing mushy cecotropes, and you aren't seeing those are you, or small fecal poop? So stopping it shouldn't hurt and may actually help. It might be a problem though if he's still getting baytril. What meds is he still getting?
I of course can't say for sure, but it sounds to me like this last stasis bout may have had to do with the hydropet and maybe the benebac, and not due to the fact that you stopped the critical care and that he was only eating hay. You know for sure that he got severly bloated the other day, from the hydropet, and with him having it at the time of getting stasis, it seems to be the most likely culprit, with the benebac being a possibility, and maybe the CC, since he is still getting a little bloated after stopping the hydropet. You'll really only be able to know for sure by stopping it. It doesn't seem to me that he is getting bloated because of an imbalance of gut bacteria or you would be seeing mushy cecotropes, and you aren't seeing those are you, or small fecal poop? So stopping it shouldn't hurt and may actually help. It might be a problem though if he's still getting baytril. What meds is he still getting?
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He gets Baytril .7cc and Flagyl .3cc 2 x daily until the 17th, Metacam .18cc in the am, Cisapride .3cc 2 x (until eating and deficating normal levels he still has gas so I have kept him on it) he is also getting .5cc of Laxatone 2 x daily until the 14th and .5cc of simethicine every four hours.
I have not seen cecotropes since Saturday. Which was the day after he started Cisapride he was a total mess he had passed several mushy ceccotropes. His bottom was a bit messy last night but he was pooping normal pellets I didn't see any cecals in his cage.
If he's having soft poop stuck to his bum, then some of his cecotropes must be coming out soft. Not really a good time to stop giving probiotics, but yet if they are causing gas, you don't exactly want to keep giving them. I'm sure that both of the antibiotics he's getting, aren't helping much to get the soft poop cleared up. If you felt you needed to stop the benebac, but with him still needing probiotics, you could maybe go to a health food store, and get non dairy probiotics, that don't have any added sugar. That might be something that will work. All those meds he's taking right now, just make it a bit complicated to try figure out what is causing the problem. If you feel that any of his meds might be causing problems or making his condition worse, you may want to discuss options with your vet.
Zero is acting a bit strange, I was holding him and he felt fine. Fed him his Critical Care and meds. By the time we got to the Baytril his tummy was grumbly. Now his abdomen is distended, I thought he had watery diahhrea but it seems to have resolved itself because he is passing normal fecal pellets. I work so many hours I am gone 13 hours out of the day. Going to talk to the vet and see if I can drop him off for observation and fluids tomorrow.
I worry he might crash while I am at work and be in pain. I am also questioning if this is really fair of me to keep putting him through all of this.
I worry he might crash while I am at work and be in pain.
I am also questioning if this is really fair of me to keep putting him through all of this.
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Could the meds and maybe the sugars in the meds, be aggravating his digestive problems? If it was the sugar in the hydropet that caused that bloating episode, maybe all these sugars in the meds aren't helping. I don't know if this is a possibility, but maybe you could ask the vet about stopping everything, except maybe the gut motility med(as I think that has to be slowly stopped to give the rabbit a chance to adjust back to not having it), and just feeding hay only with no other meds or supplements. It just seems that the meds may be causing more harm than good if he is getting sick and bloated right after having them. I don't know, maybe the vet will have some ideas. I just hate for poor little Zero to keep having this awful problem. I'm really hoping you're able to find a solution.
If you think you saw watery diarrhea, it may be worth mentioning to the vet as well. The antibiotics could be starting to cause problems for him.
If you think you saw watery diarrhea, it may be worth mentioning to the vet as well. The antibiotics could be starting to cause problems for him.
There is a gluten free grocery store nearby, I am going to stop in tomorrow and see if they have any gluten/lactose free probiotics.
I cannot believe the amount of hay this bunny eats, I stuff his 22oz bowl with timothy hay until it is overflowing 2 x daily. He ate it all today, I refilled it two and a half hours ago and he's eaten half of what I put in there. If he was truly bloating would he continue to eat?
I cannot believe the amount of hay this bunny eats, I stuff his 22oz bowl with timothy hay until it is overflowing 2 x daily. He ate it all today, I refilled it two and a half hours ago and he's eaten half of what I put in there. If he was truly bloating would he continue to eat?
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Dr Kohles (at Oxbow) and I have continued our dialogue regarding Zero. I am waiting for a response from him as far as suggested changes to what we are doing before I communicate with my vet. He suggested that we hospitalize as a last resort.
Jenny, what do you think of this product? http://www.forco.com/ I started my horse on it and the gal I ordered it from suggested giving it to Zero. It seems to be more compatible with a rabbits digestive system than Benebac for small animals. I am not sure where the guaranteed analysis is on the site but I could take a photo of the label when I get home.
I commented on your other thread.
I've always trained my bunnies to go into their cages on their own with ONE PLAIN Cheerio upon entering.My sweet little guy is developing a really bad habit of trying to jump from my hands when I am putting him back in his cage. He has jumped in a few times I am afraid he's going to get hurt. How do you stop this behavior? He also didn't want to sit on my lap for pets so we both laid on the floor. I am sad he's becoming more independent.
When it was time to go home for the night, I wold tell them "hutch, hutch" and place them butt first into their cage and immediately give them each a plain cheerio.
Then I would "corral them towards their cage at night while saying "hutch, hutch" and get them to hop into their cage and once again, immediately give them their cheerio.
Now, when it's time to go to bed at night, I say "hutch, hutch" and they already know where to go and what to do because they know what's in store for them later. CHEERIO!!!!
Good Luck "o)
