Pasteurella

[Eve]

Hi everyone,

My rabbit Layla is sick and I am really worried about her, Rodney (who she is bonded to) and myself.

Layla had a bit of a wet nose last week, so I took her to the vet, who said not to worry about it for the time being and to come back if there were any other symptoms.

About 3 days later, she was sneezing very heavily and had a lot of discharge from her nose. I am not sure if there was also some eye discharge or if the discharge from her nose was spread around her face when she was wiping it away with her paws.

I took her back to the vet andshe did a culture test, which takes7 days to come back. For the time being, Layla recieved an antibiotic called Trimethoprim to be administered twice a day. The vet also said I shouldn't seperate my bonded pair as rabbits already have this bacteria present, and that it would be very hard for Rodney to get sick from Layla.

The full culture test results come back on Tuesday, and the rabbit vet will not be in until this day also. I have called the clinic to ask how the culture test results are coming along, and was told by the vet nurse that so far there is a very strong growth of gram negative bacillus from Layla's nasal discharge.

I am really worried now, as I cannot speak to the vet about the full results untill Tuesday, but after doing a lot of research the gram negative bacillus sounds like it is pasteurella.

I have seperated my bunnies, even though told I shouldn't, because I am so worried Rodney will catch this too. I am also stressed because my rabbits live in my bedroom and I have had flu-like symptoms during this week.My mum is obsessed with germs, and keeps telling me that Ican catch pasteurella and so can my family.She is also sending me links about a person that has died from the rabbit flu.I know this probably sounds silly and I am being paranoid, but I am a bit worried about mine and my family's health right now.

If anyone has any advice or knowledgeon this, I would really really appreciate your help.

 

[Haley]

As far as I know, these types of things cant be passed from her to you.

What color is the discharge? Clear or white? How is her breathing?

I wouldnt worry too much, even if it is pastuerella. Every time Max had a culture thats what it came back as. He and Basil have been inseperable this whole time and Basil never once got sick.

Unless its a thick white discharge, I wouldnt be too worried. Hopefully its something that will clear up with a strong course of antibiotics.

 

[Eve]

Hi Haley,

Thank you so much for the quick reply and your advice.

Unfortunately I think the discharge is white and a bitthick.When Layla sneezes and the discharge goes on the black parts of her fur it doesn't look clear. But I don't think there is much that can be done until the full culture results come back.

She is having a little bit of difficulty with breathing, but it sounds like it is the type of difficulty you have breathing when you are sick and have a very stuffy nose. The vet said the antibiotic she has now should help with this.

 

[Haley]

Oh, then it is probably good you separated them, just in case. Im so sorry shes not feeling well.

Is her nose sounding stuffy at all? If so, you could try using a vaporizer for her with some Vicks (or some kind of eucalyptus oil) in the medicine cup. I did this for Max when he was having trouble breathing and it really helped.

Also, if the discharge gets bad, you can use one of those suction things for baby's noses to suction stuff out. I did this for Max as well.

I looked up that antibiotic and it looks like it is good for treating pastuerella. Ive had success with Baytril, it might be something to try if the test comes back sensitive to it..

Just in case, be sure to wash your hands and such in between petting her and Rodney.

I'll be praying for your little girl.

 

[Rabbit Hutch]

Don't split them up if you don't have to....that might even be more stressful on them and re-bonding is he**.Mine often look to their partners to comfort & help groom each other when they don't feel well.

We have many pairs that have one partner with a chronic respitory infection etc and the other never gets sick.

What your vet says about them all having it is true as it is transmitted from their mom at birth and whether they develop symptoms of it or not varied from bunny to bunny.

Seriously, none of mine have ever gotten soemthing from their partners....al ot of it was old school thinking from teh time when they used to cull whole herds due to sneezing etc. As well *you* cannot get it and neither can your family....if so I would have been gone and dead years ago.

 

[Eve]

Hi Haley and Rabbit Hutch,

Thank youboth very muchfor the greatadvice and for your kind words.

Layla's nose is sounding very stuffy, and I will definately try using a vaporizer with some Vicks. I'll alsotry to findthe suction things you mentioned Haley. So far I have been cleaning her nose regularly with tissues because she is spreading the stuff to her eyes with her paws.

Thank you for looking up the antibiotic I mentioned too, I really appreciate your help. I will also ask my vet about Baytril on Tuesday.

Rabbit Hutch, thank you for reassuring me that I cannot catch this, it makes me feel a lot better hearing this.

As for seperating them, I am not sure what to do now. They were freshly bonded and I still seperated them at night time, so I thought seperating them wouldn't hurt the bonding too much. Layla was also being a bit grumpy towards Rodney and chasing him a bit since becoming sick, soI thought maybe she wanted to be left alone. So I don't know if it would be best to put them together or keep them seperated now...

 

[JadeIcing]

According to my vet if they were in that close contact the chance of the other not having it would be very slim. She does not like them to be seperated because it can cause stress and trigger bad episodes.I haven't caught it andI catch everything so don't worry.

I have one that I have been treating along time for this. Feel free to ask whatever.

Baytril is good. It kept Ringo in check. That was one of the second to last meds he was on.

 

[Eve]

Hi JadeIcing,

Thank you for your help.

Would it be a good ideafor me to bring Rodney to the vet to get aculture test too to see if he already has it?

How long was your bun on Baytril for?

Thank you againfor the advice.

 

[JadeIcing]

Eve wrote:

Hi JadeIcing,

Thank you for your help.

Would it be a good ideafor me to bring Rodney to the vet to get aculture test too to see if he already has it?

How long was your bun on Baytril for?

Thank you againfor the advice.

Hi Eve,

Anytime!

I would call the vet but if he isn't showing anythingdon't know.

He was on baytil for 9mnths. He had very bad head-tilt. 2nd month he also went on Pen shots. Than this past January he went on Zithromax fora month and has been off it for a month.

 

[Runestonez]

We went thru this whole thing when we brought our 2 girls home. At the pet store Peppers got sick and they didn't bother to treat her. She and her sisiter had been locked in an aquarium together for 2-4 months while she was sick. Skittles NEVER caught what Peppy had. Our vet diagnosed Pasturella. A bacteria that is normally present anyway but in certain conditions or under certain circumstances (like a lowered immune system) will grow out of control. We were using large doses (50mg) of Baytril for about 6 months. When Peppy turned 1 year old or there abouts...the sneezing suddenly stopped. Even the deep nasal swabs failed to grow anything really significant. What the vet finally decided was that it was most likely Bordetella. Something not often seen in rabbits in the past that is becoming more and more common.But it is a disease of younger rabbits and generally disappears around a year to a year and a half of age.

When Peppy was having a lot of mucus and sneezing, we found that dabbing her nose and helping to keep the tip unclogged seemed to make her feel better! I don't know if your bunn has the type of temperment to allow that or not! You can't catch Pasturella...and our vet says that as long as the other bunn is otherwise healthy, that it was better to leave them together.Seperating them would just cause more stress! HTH!

Hope your bunn is feeling better soon!

Danielle

 

[naturestee]

Poor Layla. I hope she's feeling better soon! :kiss:

I'd definately agree with putting them back together. Rodney would already have been exposed to it, and like Rabbit Hutch said it seems not to spread as badly as many people assume. I think it's more related to the immune system of the individual rabbit. Many rabbits will test positive for Pasteurella all their lives but never get sick, while some others do get very sick. Anyway, I think Rodney would be a great comfort to her.

Aside from the vaporizer, you can also put Layla in your bathroom while you take a hot shower. The hot steam is great for clearing the nasal passages. I used to do this when my kitten had a bad upper respiratory infection. That nose suction thingy sounds like a good idea too, just to help get her cleared out.

FYI, here's some info for Trimothoprim if you want it:
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=0&cat=1451&articleid=1489

 

[AngelnSnuffy]

Angela, I don't know how you word things so great!

:yeahthat Wow. Thank God for these bunny people! :bow

 

[Eve]

AngelnSnuffy wrote:

Thank God for these bunny people! :bow

Hi AngelnSnuffy, I very much agree with your comment.

Thank you all so much for all of your help and support. You have no idea how much I appreciate all of your replies.

JadeIcingwrote:

He was on baytil for 9mnths. He had very bad head-tilt. 2nd month he also went on Pen shots. Than this past January he went on Zithromax for a month and has been off it for a month.

Hi JadeIcing, wow, that sounds like alot oftreatments. How is he doing now? Poor little guy.

Hi Runestonez, thank you for your advice and the information on Pasteurella. Layla probably has a lowered immune system after her tooth root abscess operation and the spay, which were only about 2months ago. I am feeding her critical care formula at the moment in the hope the added vitamins will help strengthen her.

She and Rodney are also back together now, but Layla seems to be a bit grumpy with him. I'm not sure if that is my fault as I seperated them for a day, or if she is just in a bad mood because she is not feeling well.

Hi Naturestee, thank you for your wonderful advice. That is a fantastic idea about takingLayla to the bathroom when I have a shower.I'm sure her and Rodney will have fun exploring the bathroom together too . Thank you so much for the link on Trimothoprim you found too,it was very helpful.
Thank you! :kiss:

 

[Haley]

Hey Eve, this is kind of a long shot, but did the vet check the teeth and jaw to be sure the abscess isnt back?

This all sounds too familiar. I forgot Layla had the abscess problem. I dont know if you followed Max's story, but he came down with a mild runny nose right around the time they found a tooth root abscess. The runny nose got a bit better after the surgery, but everyone kept telling me there was no way they were connected.

So...his runny nose got worse and worse..he developed bronchitis and had severe nasal and breathing problems. We did xrays, nasal flushes,had him on tons and tons of meds, nebulizer etc. We suspected the tooth abscess was back, but no one wanted to operate or focus on the abscessuntil theyhad the nasal/breathing under control.

He just had surgery to remove the abscess again. Apparently is was massive. Miraculously, his breathing is improving now.

Im just wondering if the same thing could be happening with Layla. Like if the abcess is back and its compromising her immune system making her more prone to infection.

Just something to think about..

 

[JadeIcing]

Eve wrote:

JadeIcingwrote:

He was on baytil for 9mnths. He had very bad head-tilt. 2nd month he also went on Pen shots. Than this past January he went on Zithromax for a month and has been off it for a month.

Hi JadeIcing, wow, that sounds like alot oftreatments. How is he doing now? Poor little guy.

Here you go.Help?(update) and our blog Aliciaand The Zoo Crew! (2007)

Alot has gone on. He was a pet store bun. Mind you we don't mind any of it for a second. He is the sweetest boy ever. Ok so he is nippy if you don't feed him fast enough.

I am currently writting up a paper(I guess you could call it that.) on everything we went though and did. Shoot still are doing.

 

[Eve]

Hi Haley,

I have been following Max's story, and that initially prompted me to thinkthis might be abscess related. The vet checked Layla's jaw and had a look at her back teeth on both visits as she thought it might be an abscess too. She said she couldn't see anything indicating it could be abscess related though.

Layla also had a second xray in mid January after the tooth operation and everything looked fine then. Is there anything else I should do to check if this is related to her teeth? Should I request another xray be done?

Poor Max, he has been through so so much. I am so glad to hear the surgery helped his breathing. You have really done so much for him.

Thank you so much for your advice about checking that the abscess isn't back Haley. Although this has already been looked into, it would have beenextremely important if my vet hadn't checked for this yet. I really appreciateyour help.

Hi JaceIcing,

Thank you very much for the links! I will look through them now to refresh my memory on Ringo's story.

Is the paper you are writing up just for yourself or for an assignment?

An quick update on Layla:

I put Layla in the bathroom whenever anyone in my family was taking a shower, and the steam hasmade a noticable difference inher breathing for a few hours afterwards (thanks naturestee!). I also put some eucalyptus medicine in the vaporizer, which I hope helps her.

 

[Haley]

Thats great that the steam seems to be helping!I used to put Max in his condo and point the vaporizer at him wherever he was laying. It did seem to help a little. I dont know if they sell this over there, but I used a Vicks Vaporizer additive that you pour directly into the water (not the medicine cup) and that worked wonders(it creates more steam).

As far as abscesses go, Im not sure how else to check for them beside sjust feeling around for a lump. My vet did tons of xrays and always said it looked normal. He thought the lump was just the bone growing around where the old abcess was removed. He kept telling me it was normal until it had grown so much more there was no way it couldve been normal. Does she ever appear to be in pain? Like whincing or strainingher face?

Im hoping its just a respiratory thing that can be cleared up.Hopefully you'll know more when the culture comes back. If you need any info on nebulizing, let me know..that really helped Max when he hadbronchitis.

I'll be keeping your baby girl in my prayers. Youre such a great bunny mom.

 

[JadeIcing]

Eve wrote:

.Hi JaceIcing,

Thank you very much for the links! I will look through them now to refresh my memory on Ringo's story.

Is the paper you are writing up just for yourself or for an assignment?

I am writing it for this site and for the rescue I work with. I most of all am writing it for people like me or what I was like I should say. I had no clue when it first happened and everything I read was in a language I didn't understand. I want it something that is easy to understand and informative.


I also used the steam a lot with Ringo.

 

[Eve]

Hi JadeIcing,

I can't wait to read your paper if you will be posting it on RO. It sounds like it will be very helpful to others, good on you for doing it.

Hi Haley,

We do have Vicks here, but I ended up buying a eucalyptus solution you pour directly into the water which had all natural ingredients. I might give the Vicks a try when this runs out, as it is only a small bottle.

I have felt Layla's jaw for any lumps almost every day, but I cannot find anything suspicious. She doesn't appear to be in pain either. I really wish my regular rabbit vet (who removed Layla's abscess) was here so she could double check this,but she is on maternity leave at the moment.

A rabbit savy vet from Canadais replacing her for now,andshe does seem to be really good. I have been to a number of other vets here in Melbourne and they all pretty much have no idea about bunnies. When Rodney was sneezing once they gave him a pat on the head, said he has a cold and charged me $85 for the consultation:?. This vet checkedLayla's jaw and teeth straight away, did culture tests and prescribed what seems to bea good antibiotic for now,so I think Layla is in the best hands she can be in vet-wise.

I am really hoping this is a respiratory thing too, and not abscess related. I am waiting for the vet to call me back today about the culture test results, so hopefully I will know what is going on later today.


Thank you again for your message and for being so helpful.

 

[Eve]

The vet just called me about Layla's culture tests, and now I'm a bit confused.

She said the lab sent her a note that there was a heavy growth of gram negative bacillus, but they are unable to find exactly what strain it is and that it is "something very unusual" .

They were able to tell what will help treat this, however, and that there were two antibiotics to try. One of them is the Trimethoprim one which she is getting now, but since she has been on it for 8 days with no results she will switch her to the other antibiotic tomorrow.

The vet said that the lab can do further tests on the culture, however this will be expensive and there isn't much point in doing this as we already know what two antibiotics are needed in treating this. So I guess I will try the other antibiotic for now and see how that goes.