Sweetie
Well-Known Member
I am so sorry to hear about Ginger. I hope that all the kits make it. I PMed Randy about this thread so he should be on here soon to help.
OMG Ginger has died!!
- Thread starter Bunny Mum
- Start date
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ra7751
Well-Known Member
Oh boy...those kits are in trouble. Baby rabbits are the most difficult to hand raise due to their unique digestive system. First....I have looked over this thread and unfortunately many of the "formulas" that are around on the internet are horrible. At no time should a rabbit receive heavy cream, yogurt,Karo Syrup, Evaporated Milk or eggs. Rabbits are lactose intolerant and can't handle dairy products such as mild or cream. Refined sugars such as honey and Karo Syrup are an enemy of a hind gut fermenter. And raw eggs carry salmonella. These are from the "dark ages" when little was truly known about rabbits. If any wildlife rehabber were to use this stuff, I would immediately seek to have their licensed pulled.
You should start by hydrating. Plain water is best. The kits have enough food from their mother to last a day or two. Start introducing formula in a diluted form and increase concentration overa period of several days. You can use Kitten Milk Replacer or Goat's Milk for a few days in order to acclimate the gut to formula. We are currently using a product make specifically for young neonates (particularly cottontails) that is made by Fox Valley Animal Nutrition. The product is called Day One 32/40. We also use a fat booster called Ultra Boost....it is plant fat based. The key to these formulas is they contain supplements like the mother's milk that KMR or Goat's Milk do not. Vitamin D is essential in the absorbing of nutrients and is contained in the Fox Valley formulas.
Formula should be warm to the touch (about 100F). Most rabbits do not have a sucking reflex and are easier to "tube" feed. If you must feed with a syringe, it should have a very small tip. They can aspirate easily (get fluid in their lungs). This results in bacteria pneumonia and is usually fatal. I feed rabbits on their backs. The true "pinkies" are fed 4 times per day at 10% of their body weight or until they have a "jelly belly". The milk line will be easily visible thru the skin....I never fully fill their stomach. Feeding times are cut back as they age. Body temp needs to be maintained at 101-103F. You will need to stimulate them for bathroom functions.
If they survive about 10 days....the next hurdle is the pH conversion as they go into weaning. Domestics are a lot more forgiving during weaning as they wean later and not as violently as cottontails. I use a probiotic like Bene Bac to help support the pH. I have an antibiotic called Metronidazole that is used at the first signs of distress during weaning. And I use a product called BioSponge that will bind the enterotoxins that develop as the gut converts at weaning.
You have a challenge ahead of you....but it's not impossible to pull off. Just don't use the dairy, eggugar products and that will increase the odds of success. Feel free to PM me if you need additional information. Oddly enough, we are presenting a lecture to wildlife rehabbers and veterinary professionals at our near-by vet school in just a couple of weeks...and we just published an article on basically this topic. Good luck.
Randy
You should start by hydrating. Plain water is best. The kits have enough food from their mother to last a day or two. Start introducing formula in a diluted form and increase concentration overa period of several days. You can use Kitten Milk Replacer or Goat's Milk for a few days in order to acclimate the gut to formula. We are currently using a product make specifically for young neonates (particularly cottontails) that is made by Fox Valley Animal Nutrition. The product is called Day One 32/40. We also use a fat booster called Ultra Boost....it is plant fat based. The key to these formulas is they contain supplements like the mother's milk that KMR or Goat's Milk do not. Vitamin D is essential in the absorbing of nutrients and is contained in the Fox Valley formulas.
Formula should be warm to the touch (about 100F). Most rabbits do not have a sucking reflex and are easier to "tube" feed. If you must feed with a syringe, it should have a very small tip. They can aspirate easily (get fluid in their lungs). This results in bacteria pneumonia and is usually fatal. I feed rabbits on their backs. The true "pinkies" are fed 4 times per day at 10% of their body weight or until they have a "jelly belly". The milk line will be easily visible thru the skin....I never fully fill their stomach. Feeding times are cut back as they age. Body temp needs to be maintained at 101-103F. You will need to stimulate them for bathroom functions.
If they survive about 10 days....the next hurdle is the pH conversion as they go into weaning. Domestics are a lot more forgiving during weaning as they wean later and not as violently as cottontails. I use a probiotic like Bene Bac to help support the pH. I have an antibiotic called Metronidazole that is used at the first signs of distress during weaning. And I use a product called BioSponge that will bind the enterotoxins that develop as the gut converts at weaning.
You have a challenge ahead of you....but it's not impossible to pull off. Just don't use the dairy, eggugar products and that will increase the odds of success. Feel free to PM me if you need additional information. Oddly enough, we are presenting a lecture to wildlife rehabbers and veterinary professionals at our near-by vet school in just a couple of weeks...and we just published an article on basically this topic. Good luck.
Randy
Sweetie
Well-Known Member
Thank you Randy! Hopefully the kits will make it.
Bunny Mum: how are the kits doing? Randy is a very good rabbit savvy vet. He knows his stuff.
Bunny Mum: how are the kits doing? Randy is a very good rabbit savvy vet. He knows his stuff.
DeniseJP
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the proper post Randy... no wonder my young kits never made it when I had a doe reject the litter and no foster mom was available - hoping that I never have to attempt to handrear a litter myself.
Denise
Denise
aurora369
Well-Known Member
Just a note regarding Randy. Please note that he is not a vet, nor has he ever claimed to be a vet. He is always very careful to state that his experience is first hand experience gained by working with some of the top exotics vets out there and by his extensive rescue work. Randy could get in big trouble for doling out advice under the pretense that he is a licensed vet when he is not, and that is why is is always very careful to state that his advice is not that of a vet, but from personal experience.
I have personally followed his advice and I trust what he says. But remember that in difficult situations, all options should be discussed with a vet.
That being said, thank you very much for the updated formula advice! I will make sure to link to this thread in the future when others are looking for a formula.
-Dawn
I have personally followed his advice and I trust what he says. But remember that in difficult situations, all options should be discussed with a vet.
That being said, thank you very much for the updated formula advice! I will make sure to link to this thread in the future when others are looking for a formula.
-Dawn
Bunny Mum
Well-Known Member
Okay we still have all 6 today they take over an hour to feed all , one is much smaller i worry about it. It is a very slow process and we are very aware of the pnuemonia issue.Thank you everyone for your advice.
Bunny Mum
Well-Known Member
P.S will keep you posted
Happi Bun
Well-Known Member
Fingers crossed! It's definitely a challenge hand raising kits but not impossible. :goodluck
Bunny Mum
Well-Known Member
Have just taken some pictures of my husband feeding the kits but stupid me can't work out how to post them can someone send me a PM
Sweetie
Well-Known Member
Good to hear that all 6 babies are still alive. You are doing a good job being surrogate bun mum for these babies.
Just refer back to this thread and Randy's post in this thread if ever you need it.
If you need him quickly, PM me and I will get a hold of him very quickly!
Just refer back to this thread and Randy's post in this thread if ever you need it.
If you need him quickly, PM me and I will get a hold of him very quickly!
cheryl
Well-Known Member
I'm so sorry that you lost Ginger..what an awful thing to happen
How are the little babies going?
How are the little babies going?
Bunny Mum
Well-Known Member
They are all still alive i wish i could post pics. I think they are looking skinny and am panicky but my husband keeps me calm by saying they are still very active, feeding well and are being kept warm. They are 3 days old now. Can Randy advise me on how much milk he thinks we should be feeding in a sitting. We can only manage 3 feeds a day with our work commitments.
Bunny Mum
Well-Known Member
I will PM randy re feeding amount, in the meantime can someone PM me so i can post some pics LOL !!
Pipp
Well-Known Member
Our software can only allow you to post one pic at a time and not if they're too big, but you can try that method.
When you hit 'reply' (not the 'quick reply' screen at the bottom), you'll see a box that says 'choose file'. If you click on it, it should show you the photo files on your computer, you just pick on and click ok.
Or better yet, go to tinypic.com and click on 'choose file' and that will take you to your computer where you probably have the pictures stored. Just pick the one, click 'open', and resize to message board size, then click 'upload'.
That will take you to 'share this photo', where you select 'IMG Code for Forums and Message Boards'. You just cut and paste that line into your message and when you send the message (or click on 'preview'), we will all see the photo.
The code will look something like this (without the spaces):
[IMG ] http : // i46 . tinypic.com /xxxx .gif [ / IMG]
You can cut and paste as many photos as you like into the post.
Hope this helps!
Looking forward to some pics!
sas
When you hit 'reply' (not the 'quick reply' screen at the bottom), you'll see a box that says 'choose file'. If you click on it, it should show you the photo files on your computer, you just pick on and click ok.
Or better yet, go to tinypic.com and click on 'choose file' and that will take you to your computer where you probably have the pictures stored. Just pick the one, click 'open', and resize to message board size, then click 'upload'.
That will take you to 'share this photo', where you select 'IMG Code for Forums and Message Boards'. You just cut and paste that line into your message and when you send the message (or click on 'preview'), we will all see the photo.
The code will look something like this (without the spaces):
[IMG ] http : // i46 . tinypic.com /xxxx .gif [ / IMG]
You can cut and paste as many photos as you like into the post.
Hope this helps!
Looking forward to some pics!
sas
Peek-a-boo
Well-Known Member
good luck at hand rearing hun it can be an emotional process.
I handreared 2 5 day old rescue babies a couple of years ago on diluted goats milk with added pro-biotic one died at 6 weeks and other 8 weeks i get very upset thinking about it now because I feel you bond very closely with the babies when you handrear yourself.
Im praying all survive hun :inlove:
I handreared 2 5 day old rescue babies a couple of years ago on diluted goats milk with added pro-biotic one died at 6 weeks and other 8 weeks i get very upset thinking about it now because I feel you bond very closely with the babies when you handrear yourself.
Im praying all survive hun :inlove:
Bunny Mum
Well-Known Member
Peek a Boo Oh dear here i am thinking things will be safer and easier after one week obviously it could be weeks and weeks before they are safe.
Bunny Mum
Well-Known Member
We lost the litle one over night and another looks like it might not last the day.
Pipp
Well-Known Member
Aw, so sorry.
When is the vet's bunny due? I think it might be worth a call to the Geelong breeder, maybe he's got a doe who lost a litter and would be glad to lend her out. Who knows.
sas :clover:
When is the vet's bunny due? I think it might be worth a call to the Geelong breeder, maybe he's got a doe who lost a litter and would be glad to lend her out. Who knows.
sas :clover:
Sweetie
Well-Known Member
I have text messaged Randy and he should get back to me. From what I have heard it is every 3 to 4 hours for feeding the kits at that age. Do not quote me on that unless someone can verify that.
Also the kits should be getting approx 10% of body weight per feeding. If they weigh 25g they get about 2.5cc per feeding.
They are easily aspirated....if they blow bubbles when they are fed, it's getting into their lungs. That is almost always fatal.
Last two paragraphs are from Randy via text message.
Also the kits should be getting approx 10% of body weight per feeding. If they weigh 25g they get about 2.5cc per feeding.
They are easily aspirated....if they blow bubbles when they are fed, it's getting into their lungs. That is almost always fatal.
Last two paragraphs are from Randy via text message.
Bunny Mum
Well-Known Member
Thanks sweetie i will have to weigh them. No none of them seem to have blown any bubbles we are feeding them every so slowly but im not sure they are getting enough inside them.
