Not acting right bun......please some suggestions.

[Jennie]

Hello,

We have had our bun for about 3 months now & all has been fine till the other day. Noticed she hadn't ate food from days before &wouldn't eat anything offered to her. Also, no poop in the cage in an over night period. She was peeing & since we have had her, it's not yellow like pee or clear, more a tad murky. Just didn't come greet you ate morning feeding, act herself, etc. . I took her to the Vet Mon. & she looked her over & just gave her some fluids in the back by the neck area. I did see as of Tues. some results to this. She started to eat her hay & some greens , but , she just still don't seem back to her 100% self. Any suggestions to maybe what couldbe going on ? Don't like that she seems shy & will get in her hide box more often, is stepping in her poo & not keeping her back feet cleaned. Just need some input.



Thanks,

Jennie

 

[Jess_sully]

Oh boy, you had me scared for a second. I thought for sure she would be long gone due to GI Stasis by now. All I can tell you is that even though she may be eating again now, there is most likely some serious underlying cause to her problems. I would get her to a vet as soon as you can... rabbit illnesses are usually quite serious. Since they're prey animals, they try to hide them as well as they can. If it gets to the point where the owner can tell something's wrong, that is NOT good.

 

[Pipp]

The pee will often be different colours and murky, no worries there.

Is she popping normally now?Or areher poops soft?Her feet shouldn't be getting dirty if her poops are normal and the litter box is kept clean.

If she was going through a bout of stasis, it can take awhile to recover fully.As long as she's eating, drinking and pooping, she should be on the road to recovery.

Did thevet giveher any other meds? Are you sure that vet is rabbit-savvy? It really takes someone with a lot of experience with rabbits to properly treat them, most dog and cats vets really don't know that much.

What are you feeding her? What's her regular diet?

sas

 

[Pipp]

Jess_sully wrote:

All I can tell you is that even though she may be eating again now, there is most likely some serious underlying cause to her problems....

:yeahthat It may be diet related, or she may have a bug, dental problems or any number of things.A rabbit-savvy vet should have some idea. The hydration was the most important thing, but there's also gut motility drugs, anti-gas meds and pain meds recommended in many (if not most) GI Stasis cases.

I'd make sure you have some anti-gas drugs on hand, something with Simethicone, like a baby gas remedy, and also maybe syringe feed her some pumpkin, and if she's not drinking,try some Pedialyte.

But the cause really has to be determined. If she's getting back to normal, it was likely diet related -- too many carbs/sugars is one thing that can cause an imbalance in their systems.

sas

 

[Spring]

With my cases, it usually took up to a week for them to get back to their normal routine.

Is she eating a good amount that her poops are in good quantity, size, shape ect?

You might want to get a second opinion. These kind of things could becaused by stress and a lot of other things. I would maybe look into getting a second opinion from a vet that is rabbit savvy and go from there.

Keep us updated, and good vibes being sent your way that she'll come back to her normal self soon! If she's eating and drinking good, she should be alright but itwould be good to get her checked out again just to make sure.

 

[Jennie]

Thanks for all the fast replies. My son is so worried & so am I.

The only thing I can tell you that I have changed has been different brands of rabbit food & timothy hay. I used to get the 1.97 timothy hay at Wal-Mart & they stopped carrying it, so I boughtsome this last time atTractor Supply. I think it's LM Farms brand. I also went from TS LM Farms brand food to Wal-Mart rabbit food. I think they are named different , but , made by Hartz. Not sure if this could be it. I noticed her chewing the plastic around the edge of her litter pan & worried it being the plastic, so out went the litter pan.

This bun is in a hutch , but , hasn't ever learned to do any of her business though the wire !!! She goes on the wood section of the cage, in her nice hide box, & steps all in it. I can't keep it brushed out fast enough. Tried so hard to stop her from ruining her nice hutch & hide area , but , NO DARN luck. Not sure about his winter. If she does all of this in her hide she won't have a nice clean hide box to keep warm in.

What do you think is going on with her ? Her poo is on the big size I think for a rabbit. Most is pea size or a tad bigger , but , hers came be the size of a grape at times. Have to smash it though the 1" wire.

This Vet does seem to know about buns for the most part. I need to get more bun savvy so maybe I can share something with her to check into. She doesn't like to fix them do to seeing a classmate in school do this & both buns died. She said if that happened in school then she doesn't want to do many surgeries on rabbits do to their stress level & dying !

Anything over the counter I need to have on hand for use with sick rabbits, please share brands, places to find, etc.



Thanks,

Jennie

 

[Jess_sully]

A sudden change in food and/or hay can be quite upsetting to a rabbit's delicate digestive system, so I'm sure that was a contributor to the problem. Just letting you know, those Hartz brands (or any Wal-Mart brands, for that matter) of rabbit food are really, really bad for your bunny. They're full of junk, too fatty, not even close to high enough in fiber, and are really detrimental to your rabbit's health. Since you have a TSC near you, I'd suggest investing in a 25 lb. bag of Manna Pro Rabbit pellets instead, they are much better quality, much much much healthier for your bunny, and a much better value. Or, if you have access to it and want to pay the extra money, something like Oxbow or American Pet Diner pellets would be better, too. Purina Complete Plus is pretty good, too. However, if you decide (and I hope you do) to switch foods, do it very gradually in order to avoid any GI Stasis repeats. For example, start off with just a little bit of the new food mixed in with the old. Continue adding a little more of the new kind and less of the old over a period of a couple weeks until your rabbit accepts and enjoys the new pellets Hope this helps, and I hope your bunny is feeling better soon!

If your vet doesn't want to fix your rabbit, she probably isn't the best vet out there for you. Any rabbit savvy vet will strongly advise neutering and spaying, not avoid it! I can understand how an inexperienced vet would be nervous about it though.

It sounds like your bunny has pretty much litterbox trained itself, except it uses the wooden nesting box as the litterbox. My suggestion? If you can fit one, put a small cat litterpan inside that box, and fill it with a good rabbit bedding, such as kiln dried pine/pine pellets, Woody Pet, Newspaper & hay, Carefresh, or aspen. I have a hunch that your rabbit will use it consistently quite easily. Sounds like a good candidate for an indoor bunny

 

[Jennie]

I did the litter thing with woody pet & she ate the pan, so no more litter pans that's made of plastic anyway.

The only bun food I see at TS is the LM Farms brand & made by Hartz.

Am I ok with using Timothy hay of any brand, or do I need to stick to a certain kind ? It just sucks when you go to buy more when you run out, & can't seem to find it anymore & have to make a quick switch !



Thanks,

Jennie

 

[Jess_sully]

Just check the Timothy hay for freshness. Generally hay from a feed store will be better quality, but as long as you're at least offering the Timothy hay that's a start. At TSC, the better rabbit food is actually over by the larger animal supplies, next to like pig food and things like that. Ask an associate for it, and they'll know exactly what you're talking about. Simply ask for "Manna Pro Rabbit Food", they'll take you right to it. Here, it's only $6.18 for a 25 lb. bag, and it is much, much better than any LM Farms or Hartz or anything else you are currently feeding. If you think it's too much, freezing some of it will help it last longer.

http://www.mannapro.com/There's the website so you can read what it looks like and compare the nutritional analysis to whatever you're feeding now. I don't know how much you know about rabbit diet, but basically protein around 15 or 16% is good, the lower the fat the better, and fiber should be as high as possible. There are better feeds out there than Manna Pro, but it works quite well, and I wasn't sure what else was available around you. Either way, it will do your bunny a world of good to switch to this or another better brand of pellets.

 

[Spring]

Try not to worry, if she's eating, drinking, pooping andpeeingwell she should be fine.

Ah yes, sudden changes in diet can cause this kind of thing. In the future and your going to change her diet, do it slow. With the pellets mix 1/3 of the new stuff with 2/3 of the old stuff wait a few days, and just start adding more of the new stuff and less of the old stuff if she doesn't seem to be having any troubles with it. Sometimes they can have troubles if you change the brand of hay (or bag) just because it might have a different cut to it and some bags have more stems and stocks, and some have more leafy things and food. Mostly they just become picky with the new hay. Timothy hay is fine.

I've been througha similarkind of thing a lot with my old bun Pepsi, and if you start to see the poop and pee it's a very good sign! I could usually tell before she started showing symtpoms something wasn't right, and you seemed to have caught it early enough that it shouldn't be a problem. Where are you located? I might be able to help you find a recommended rabbit vet that you could get a second opinion for?

When Pepsi had a bad gas attack after a false pregnancy, I boughta baby gas medicine called Oval (which has simethecone in it) and it's very good to have because any little change can cause gas! I always have it in the house now and try it first if I notice a change in appetite.

My first bun Smokey had the same problem. I guess it didn't really matter to me, I just kept cleaning it out. I really don't know what to suggest to stop this?

Keep us updated, and if you have any questions/concerns feel free to post .

 

[Pipp]

It could very well be the abrupt change in pellets that upset her digestive tract. Your description of the poop sounds like that might be it. Bunniesneedchanges in food to begradual. (Brands of Timothy hay aren't as fussy, as long as you're sticking to Timothy, but pellets can be quite different content-wise).

If she's having soft, or big misshapenpoops, may be an idea to cut right back on her pellets (mine only get a couple of tablespoons a day) and make up the difference with veggies and hay. Best thing I ever did was to start buying bales or half bales of hay and giving my bunnies tons of the stuff. They eat a lot more of it (which is healthier), they play in it, chew it when they're bored and poop in it.

EDIT: Is your bunny over six months old? If she's still too young, then she needs unlimited pellets, so don't cut back, but the extra hay is still a good idea. Bales are waaaay cheaper! (Just keep them dry).

You're really trying hard with this bunny, Jennie, and that's so cool.

:hug:

And I'm sorry the bonding advice scared you off from getting her a companion. (Would have scared me, too!). I don't think bonding is as hard as people make it out to be. It's hard to stand back and let the bunnies do some chasing and nipping -- the nips can turn into abscesses, that's the worry. But I think if you just move them both into the house for a day or two, or in anotherbig area unfamiliar to both, big enough where one can get away from the other (and keep a water pistol close at hand), chances are they'll bond.

You can also just slip a partition in the hutch and see if they try and fight through the wire, or if they try and cuddle. There's a bit of a risk, but not huge, esp. if somebody's got a neutered male.

It's worth it in the long run. They'll keep each other company, and keep each other warm this winter.

And further on the potty issue, did you ever try just putting the hay in abox or tubat the other end of hutch? She'll sit in the tub and eat the hay, and eventually do almost all her pooping in there. Then you can take the hay out of the tub and put it on a board, she'll probably keep chewing the hay and pooping on the board, which at least won't be part of the spiffy hutch. And eventually you can replace it with newspapers or just replace the board every now and again.Maybe she'll keep going in the same spot even if it's wire. (Would be nice to work on it before winter).

Please let us know how she's feeling!

PS: you can try alow-edged metal baking tin, or just a harder plasticlitter box. As long as she's not swallowing big chunks of it, she'll be fine.Many bunnies chew on theirlitter boxes.

sas

 

[Jennie]

Ok thanks all.

She does weigh 5lbs. & something (maybe 17oz. not 100%) I do know 5 lbs.something.How much pellets to give ? I have been doing 1/2 cup aday. Timothy hay all day & greens, apples, etc here& there.

Any suggestions on timothy hay brands or best buy for the $$$$ ?

What to usecome winter toput inher hide house to keep warm ? Timothy hay also ?This would get costly. Any other suggestions. Howabout keeping water dish fresh ?

I would love to do the friend thing , but , yes did get scared about the whole bonding thing.





Jennie

 

[naturestee]

Look around your area for a farm co-op, farmer,or horse stable that sells grass, timothy, oat, or other non-alfalfanon-clover hays. You can often get a 40-50 lb bale for lessthan $5. Make sure it's not dusty or moldy. If it'sstored well (by the farmer and you) farm hay is great!Otherwise, it's much more cost effective to buy in bulk from Oxbowonline than to buy those teeny tiny bags at pet stores. Inpet stores you often end up paying close to two dollars per pound ofhay, while a 50 lb box of Oxbow hay costs about one dollar per poundwhen you figure the shipping in. Plus it's better qualitythan Kaytee hay.

She will need grass hay to keep warm in winter. I don't knowwhat to do about water bowls in winter because my rabbits liveindoors. You'll probably need to check the bowl several timesa day.

While you're calling farm co-ops, ask them what brand of rabbit pelletsthey sell. Just about anything is better than any of theWalmart brands. Plus you'll spend about the same amount ofmoney but for a huge bag of pellets instead of a little bag (make sureyou store it appropriately). Purina "green bag" is verypopular with pet rabbit owners and breeders alike, although get the"high fiber" type if you can find it. Mana Pro, Blue Seal,and lots of other brands marketed for breeders will be fine for a petrabbit too, as long as the protein is 16% or less.

IMO bonding is a great thing, especially if you can get a rescue tohelp you out. That way you can do "bunny dates" to make surethey'll get along before you commit to another rabbits. Somerabbits simply hate each other on sight, while others fall in love atfirst sight.

Oh, and Fey and Sprite had similar poop when I first gotthem. Their previous owner was feeding them Small WorldRabbit Pellets from Walmart. Brought a sample to the vet tocheck for parasites or infections and it came back negative.My vet said it was purely a food problem and recommended feeding themonly hay and veggies for two weeks, and then slowly start adding aquality pellet to their diet. If you do go completely withoutpellets for two weeks then veggies are necessary to providevitamins. They improved a lot with the better diet.

 

[MyBabyBunnies]

Actually, straw is better in the winter asbedding than any type of hay. Straw has a large hollow space that fillswith air. This air trapped in the straw helps to insulate better thanhay would. Straw is also dirt cheap from a farmer. I buy '60 lb' (theyvary but are commonly referred to as that weight) bales for $2.00.

I also buy hay from the same farmer for $3.50 a bale. It's so muchbetter than any store bought hay I've seen-- it's fresher andthey seem to like it a LOT more.

As for the water dish, there is nothing you can do other than change itfrequently. I'm assuming you're in an area that would allow the waterto freeze. I change water probably at least 10 times a day in thewinter! Two of my rabbits (the other is spoiled and only likes warmwater) will break the thin layer of ice on top and drink from it aswell. I often put a bowl of snow in their cage if I wont be homebecause it's easier to eat snow than a solid block of ice. Another tipis to feed veggies. In the winter I often give them cucumber and celeryslices right before I head to bed so they have something nibble on thatwill provide water for them.

 

[Jennie]

Great tips !!!! Thanks.

I do have a farmer to get things from. I buy strawfor the dogs in the winter. We're in OH. so it does freezefrom time to time. This is all safe for the rabbit &I don't need to watch for certain things in farm hay ? Theywill bed in straw & eat this also or I still need to gettimothy hay ?

She does seem more purky today , but , her poo is still big &not real hard. What's a old age for a rabbit ? Howlong do they live if treated good ? Also, they have parasitesin their poo ? Do I need to test this then ?



Thanks,

Jennie :bunnydance:

 

[MyBabyBunnies]

No, you need timothy hay as well. Straw is not full of the needed nutrients.

I would be careful to avoid clover hay, it goes mouldy very easy. But timothy, brome, and other grass hays are ok.

But what you want to look for in hay is a nice green color (some brownis fine, it's unavoidable to have some). It should smell fresh. Youwont see if hay's gone bad until it's really bad because hay is alsohollow and it goes mouldy on the inside first so you wont see it, butyou can smell it. Mouldy hay will smell musty and old.I alsonever take a bale that's been sitting on the ground, I normally climbup the stacks and pull some that is a few bales above the ground.

As for straw, you want to make sure it's not mouldy as well but it should be a golden color.

Good fresh hay:

Old hay:

The second bale is just old, it's not mouldy so I'm mixing it withstraw for bedding because it's better for burrowing in with because ithas longer strands.

 

[Jennie]

Thanks again ! So, just getreg. farm straw for her hide box come winter & keep the freshtimothy hay in her hay holder ? I so worry she is going tokeep peeing & pooping in her hide box come winter all over hernice warm straw !!!! :X

Can anyone give me a run down of fresh fruits &veggies you give your buns & how much & often ?

Also, can anyone comment on the amount of pellets 1/2 cup 1time daily for a 5 lb. bun ? Too much or not enough ?



Thanks.................Jennie

 

[pamnock]

1/2 cup of feed is adequate for a 5 lb.rabbit. Watch during very cold winter weather - the pelletsmay need to be slightly increased.

The HRS website and good info on diet and veggies you can feed your rabbit:

http://www.rabbit.org/





Pam

 

[Pipp]

Lots of good info in our Resource Center...

http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=12046&forum_id=17