Need advice for m bunny

[BunnyWarrior]

Hi! I'm not sure if it will help, but when my bunny pooped less he was given metoclopramide, (pill 5mg 3x0,25pc per day) and 2-5 ml paraffine (oral by syringe) to help his gastric/bowel motility. But I'm very concerned about the fluid in his stomach. In worst case I even give a try to have a human phisiologyst to make the paracentesis. I feel and pull for you, I also find it hard to find a bunny specialist when my precious one was ill. (I'm from Hungary).

 

[KutuKuti]

Hi! I'm not sure if it will help, but when my bunny pooped less he was given metoclopramide, (pill 5mg 3x0,25pc per day) and 2-5 ml paraffine (oral by syringe) to help his gastric/bowel motility. But I'm very concerned about the fluid in his stomach. In worst case I even give a try to have a human phisiologyst to make the paracentesis. I feel and pull for you, I also find it hard to find a bunny specialist when my precious one was ill. (I'm from Hungary).

He is pooping but his cecos are liquid. I was also wondering if a doctor could look into his report. All the vets here are so ignorant about rabbits. How is your bunny doing now ? I am so happy you found someone to treat your little one.

 

[Popsicles]

I wouldnt like to comment on the lab results, it is potentially abnormal to have that blood and pus but it is fairly low levels so not sure if pathological? I can’t find any reference text to compare to.
Maybe there is a vet in the UK or someone else you can send the reports to? They might have a look over email or speak to you on the phone?

 

[KutuKuti]

I am sorry that I have not been able to reply to your comment. Kutu's culture report came back negative. But he is unable to pee. I think it is because of the sludge. The pellet that I give him has calcium carbonate as an ingredient. Is that okay ? Can you please tell me if giving him vitamin C tablets will help ?

 

[Popsicles]

If he is unable to pee due to a blockage it is an emergency and you need to get to a vet right away. If not the bladder can eventually rupture. It will also be very painful so he will need pain medication! Vitamin c tablets won’t help at this point, if there is a blockage it will need proper flushing.

 

[Popsicles]

Has he not peed at all? And have you been giving the antibiotics?

 

[KutuKuti]

Has he not peed at all? And have you been giving the antibiotics?

He is peeing but very little. I was giving Septran but when the culture report came back negative I stopped it. Do you think I should continue with the septran ?

 

[Popsicles]

How long did you give for? When on antibiotics you should never stop the course early as this can increase resistance in the bacterial population. Since you have stopped now though, and the culture is negative I don’t know how useful antibiotics would be, though cultures aren’t always definitive. I would check with your vet to be sure.
I really really suspect that sludge is the issue here as you can see it so clearly on the radiograph, it must be so painful for the little guy

 

[KutuKuti]

How long did you give for? When on antibiotics you should never stop the course early as this can increase resistance in the bacterial population. Since you have stopped now though, and the culture is negative I don’t know how useful antibiotics would be, though cultures aren’t always definitive. I would check with your vet to be sure.
I really really suspect that sludge is the issue here as you can see it so clearly on the radiograph, it must be so painful for the little guy

Yes. It must be so painful. Can I give him electrolyte water ? Although he is not drinking and when I am giving him through dropper he is throwing the water with his tongue. Also can I give him dried cranberries ?

 

[Popsicles]

How much has he been drinking? How long has he been like this? It is possible he is peeing less because he is not drinking enough. Rabbits don’t often drink much water if they get lots of wet veggies that is usually enough fluid, but dry diets like hay and pellets mean they need to drink water. How much are you managing to get into him? I can’t inagine the electrolytes would be a problem but I wouldn’t know for sure, I’ve never seen that brand before.
What would be the benefit of cranberries? He can eat them but they are very sugary so not too much.

 

[Popsicles]

If you can’t get any water in him try wetting his veggies before feeding and giving juicy veggies with lots of moisture in.

 

[KutuKuti]

If you can’t get any water in him try wetting his veggies before feeding and giving juicy veggies with lots of moisture in.

I am only being able to give him a few drops of water. He does not drink water on his own. I am giving him wet veggies to make up for the less water intake. I was thinking of cranberries since they have vitamin C in them which is supposed to help with sludge. Are vitamin C tablets good for resolving sludge ?When I was giving him septran he was peeing a little more. Is septran a diureti c ? This is the ingredients of the Oxbow Organic do you think it is bad for him ?

 

[Popsicles]

It might be useful to speak to your vet to see if they can teach you how to give fluids subcutaneously if you suspect he is dehydrated.
You cannot resolve sludge without flushing, like I said. You can prevent it forming by reducing calcium intake and things like vitamin c, but once it is there it won’t dissolve on its own.
I am not very knowledgable on nutrition, you could post that image into the nutrition and behaviour forum as a new topic and see if anyone can help you? Sorry, I wouldn’t want to give you a bad guess when lots on here are better with nutrition than I am.
Oh and Septran shouldn’t have a diuretic effect, it may be because he was drinking more water (because the drug was making him feel better?) or just be that he did have a uti and the antibiotic helped a swelling go down than meant e could pee more. It’s hard for me to say.

 

[KutuKuti]

It might be useful to speak to your vet to see if they can teach you how to give fluids subcutaneously if you suspect he is dehydrated.
You cannot resolve sludge without flushing, like I said. You can prevent it forming by reducing calcium intake and things like vitamin c, but once it is there it won’t dissolve on its own.
I am not very knowledgable on nutrition, you could post that image into the nutrition and behaviour forum as a new topic and see if anyone can help you? Sorry, I wouldn’t want to give you a bad guess when lots on here are better with nutrition than I am.
Oh and Septran shouldn’t have a diuretic effect, it may be because he was drinking more water (because the drug was making him feel better?) or just be that he did have a uti and the antibiotic helped a swelling go down than meant e could pee more. It’s hard for me to say.

Okay. I will do so. Someone said me that septran was a diuretic so it was forcing his kidneys to create more urine. Can you tell me how many days is the course of septran ? And what should be the dosage for 2.8kg bunny ? Suppose the report is right and he does not have UTI then will the septran harm him ? I already stopped the septran once if I give him now will it be bad ?

 

[Popsicles]

Maybe it is, that’s not something ive heard but it could be a side effect.
It depends what you are treating, normally a minimum of 3-5 days, i don’t know dosage without the compendium in front of me but your vet should have told you a dosage?
It wont harm him other than potential side effects, which hopefully should be mild, though of course all medications come with risk.
How long did you give it for before stopping?

 

[KutuKuti]

Maybe it is, that’s not something ive heard but it could be a side effect.
It depends what you are treating, normally a minimum of 3-5 days, i don’t know dosage without the compendium in front of me but your vet should have told you a dosage?
It wont harm him other than potential side effects, which hopefully should be mild, though of course all medications come with risk.
How long did you give it for before stopping?

I gave him 3 times only. My other bunny, Kuti had died due to wrong dosage of antibiotics so I give very less antibiotics. I gave him only0.04ml

 

[Popsicles]

Well Sentra isn’t isually used for UTIs, ask your vet what he aims to treat with the antibiotic. It is better to give no antibiotic at all than give a low dose - either commit or don’t. Giving too low and dose and also stopping early Just increases the amount of resistant bacteria and will make the infection worse. Speak to your vet and see what their plan was and next time either take the antibiotics or don’t.
You still need to take him about the sludge, which is NOT something you can fix at home.
You also need to find out what the mass in the abdomen is, did you give the worm treatment someone suggested?
And have you given any pain medication yet? This would be a big priority for me right now. This rabbit is not having a good time. You can’t leave him like this.

 

[doodlebugger]

Could this be coccidia? I was just wondering if that could be what the mass is - a swollen liver or something like that? Here's a link to the symptoms and other info: https://rabbit.org/intermittent-soft-cecotropes-in-rabbits/
I would definitely try to find someone in your area that has experience with rabbits. If you do a google search for your city, country, and the words veterinarian rabbit, does it not give you anyone there who might be able to help you more? I tried this with the city listed on one of the reports and it listed a few with one who said he had over 18 years as vet and could treat rabbits. It's so hard to take what you are seeing and the reports and help you diagnose or make choices as to what to do next.

Our rabbit had bladder sludge and a UTI. We had to finish the course of antibiotics, but we also had to get him some sub q fluids which seemed to help. Our vet also said they needed to move more, to help prevent the sludge in the future. Our rabbit was peeing outside of his litter box six months later, which is what he did when he had a UTI the first time, so we gave him a small dose of metoclopromide and some Metacam (with our vet's approval), and he improved without needing antibiotics. But I wouldn't give metoclopromide to a rabbit who is having liquid cecotropes.....because it could make it worse. Are all his poops liquid or only the cecotropes?

I don't know I would give any cranberries, as they might make things worse. Are you giving any greens? Like a leafy romaine lettuce? I would give those if he will eat them. That will provide some water for him.

Pain meds could help him feel good enough to drink and urinate more. I'm so sorry you are going through this.

 

[KutuKuti]

Well Sentra isn’t isually used for UTIs, ask your vet what he aims to treat with the antibiotic. It is better to give no antibiotic at all than give a low dose - either commit or don’t. Giving too low and dose and also stopping early Just increases the amount of resistant bacteria and will make the infection worse. Speak to your vet and see what their plan was and next time either take the antibiotics or don’t.
You still need to take him about the sludge, which is NOT something you can fix at home.
You also need to find out what the mass in the abdomen is, did you give the worm treatment someone suggested?
And have you given any pain medication yet? This would be a big priority for me right now. This rabbit is not having a good time. You can’t leave him like this.

The mass might be his cecum. I have not started the deworming. Yes melonex is a pain med.

 

[KutuKuti]

Could this be coccidia? I was just wondering if that could be what the mass is - a swollen liver or something like that? Here's a link to the symptoms and other info: https://rabbit.org/intermittent-soft-cecotropes-in-rabbits/
I would definitely try to find someone in your area that has experience with rabbits. If you do a google search for your city, country, and the words veterinarian rabbit, does it not give you anyone there who might be able to help you more? I tried this with the city listed on one of the reports and it listed a few with one who said he had over 18 years as vet and could treat rabbits. It's so hard to take what you are seeing and the reports and help you diagnose or make choices as to what to do next.

Our rabbit had bladder sludge and a UTI. We had to finish the course of antibiotics, but we also had to get him some sub q fluids which seemed to help. Our vet also said they needed to move more, to help prevent the sludge in the future. Our rabbit was peeing outside of his litter box six months later, which is what he did when he had a UTI the first time, so we gave him a small dose of metoclopromide and some Metacam (with our vet's approval), and he improved without needing antibiotics. But I wouldn't give metoclopromide to a rabbit who is having liquid cecotropes.....because it could make it worse. Are all his poops liquid or only the cecotropes?

I don't know I would give any cranberries, as they might make things worse. Are you giving any greens? Like a leafy romaine lettuce? I would give those if he will eat them. That will provide some water for him.

Pain meds could help him feel good enough to drink and urinate more. I'm so sorry you are going through this.

Thank you so much for your help. There are no rabbit savvy vets here. The vets say they can treat rabbits but give wrong medications. Kutu is only having liquid cecos. Yes I give him greens to make up for his water intake. I give him water spinach, celery leaves, cilantro and others. Cranberries have vitamin C so I was asked to give them. Are the dried but little sweetened cranberries harmful for them ? His urinalysis culture came negative for UTI but his routine report showed growth in cells.